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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002585.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002585.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..64d126dc7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002585.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C201010240016.58093.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002598.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Renaud MICHEL</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C201010240016.58093.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">r.h.michel+mageia at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 00:16:57 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002598.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2585">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2585">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2585">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2585">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On samedi 23 octobre 2010 at 22:55, Michael Scherer wrote : +><i> then wouldn't it be better to have a way for kde to work when being too +</I>><i> broken ( ie, a safe mode, like windows and firefox ) ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Because I doubt that people who are targeted by this feature of having a +</I>><i> 2nd X session are also able to fix a kde session problem ( since the 3 +</I>><i> examples people gave to me were KDE related ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> IE, if you know how to fix, tty can be enough, and if you don't know how +</I>><i> to fix, I doubt that running lxde may bring such a added value. +</I> +You can "fix" a KDE configuration problem by removing (or renaming if there +are some important things to get back) the .kde(4) directory. +A newbie can do that, if he still has access to a file manager. + +Also, if he still has access to a web browser, he can go to a forum and ask +for help. + +If he don't know how to fix, he still has a working (although minimal) +environment from where he can search for help. +That's way better that re-installing. + +-- +Renaud Michel +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002598.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2585">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2585">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2585">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2585">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002586.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002586.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7a6cc91ff --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002586.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010240056350.17350-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002603.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002587.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010240056350.17350-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 00:59:53 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002603.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002587.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2586">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2586">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2586">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2586">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 23 Oct 2010, Dale Huckeby wrote: + +><i> One problem in choosing packages is that for many a description of what +</I>><i> the app does is sparse or nonexistent. And often the description is of +</I>><i> the form: defoliant_2.35.rpm. Install this if you need a defoliant. When +</I>><i> I see descriptions like this my first impulse is to wonder, Why did you +</I>><i> even bother? Complete descriptions of what each app does, including +</I>><i> explaining under what circumstances the user might or might not need it, +</I>><i> would go a long way towards making noobies feel less lost. Some apps do +</I>><i> an admirable job of explanation. Many don't. +</I> +I 100% agree with that and this is something that the packagers really +should do. What's the point in packaging up a great useful app, but then +saving time on the description so nobody but a few insiders use it, +because nobody know what it is for? + +Even I still come across packages I have never heard of and then wonder +what they are for, immagine a newbie who doesn't really know any of the +Linux apps by name. + +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002603.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002587.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2586">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2586">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2586">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2586">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002587.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002587.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c254b1f68 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002587.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287877602.22938.147.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002586.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002588.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287877602.22938.147.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 01:46:42 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002586.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002588.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2587">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2587">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2587">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2587">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 00:59 +0200, Tux99 a écrit : +><i> On Sat, 23 Oct 2010, Dale Huckeby wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > One problem in choosing packages is that for many a description of what +</I>><i> > the app does is sparse or nonexistent. And often the description is of +</I>><i> > the form: defoliant_2.35.rpm. Install this if you need a defoliant. When +</I>><i> > I see descriptions like this my first impulse is to wonder, Why did you +</I>><i> > even bother? Complete descriptions of what each app does, including +</I>><i> > explaining under what circumstances the user might or might not need it, +</I>><i> > would go a long way towards making noobies feel less lost. Some apps do +</I>><i> > an admirable job of explanation. Many don't. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I 100% agree with that and this is something that the packagers really +</I>><i> should do. What's the point in packaging up a great useful app, but then +</I>><i> saving time on the description so nobody but a few insiders use it, +</I>><i> because nobody know what it is for? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Even I still come across packages I have never heard of and then wonder +</I>><i> what they are for, immagine a newbie who doesn't really know any of the +</I>><i> Linux apps by name. +</I> +Well, writing better description is a task that do not requires +technical knowledge, and that any packagers could do, if people send a +patch. + +Since I never received anything for my own packages for this kind of +problem, shall I assume that my packages are fine ? + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002586.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002588.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2587">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2587">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2587">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2587">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002588.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002588.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..29c459b68 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002588.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTin1%3D%3DswKt%2BBw8oLSkh7Uti3VkJavamK2AoB-mrN%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002587.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002589.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTin1%3D%3DswKt%2BBw8oLSkh7Uti3VkJavamK2AoB-mrN%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 02:06:14 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002587.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002589.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2588">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2588">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2588">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2588">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/10/24 Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">misc at zarb.org</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> Well, writing better description is a task that do not requires +</I>><i> technical knowledge, and that any packagers could do, if people send a +</I>><i> patch. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Since I never received anything for my own packages for this kind of +</I>><i> problem, shall I assume that my packages are fine ? +</I> +A typical case of failed communication. It has been written many times +that package descriptions in the installer and also some in rpmdrake +are less than they should be. What does it tell me when I look at the +description and all I see is "an important package you should install +it" ? But what does it do? Brew coffee? + +IIRC there has been a bug report about it. Too tired now to search for +it, sorry. +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002587.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002589.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2588">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2588">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2588">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2588">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002589.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002589.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e6c426979 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002589.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010240204000.17350-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002588.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002590.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010240204000.17350-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 02:09:38 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002588.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002590.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2589">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2589">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2589">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2589">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: + +><i> Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 00:59 +0200, Tux99 a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > I 100% agree with that and this is something that the packagers really +</I>><i> > should do. What's the point in packaging up a great useful app, but then +</I>><i> > saving time on the description so nobody but a few insiders use it, +</I>><i> > because nobody know what it is for? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Even I still come across packages I have never heard of and then wonder +</I>><i> > what they are for, immagine a newbie who doesn't really know any of the +</I>><i> > Linux apps by name. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, writing better description is a task that do not requires +</I>><i> technical knowledge, and that any packagers could do, if people send a +</I>><i> patch. +</I> +Come on... the effort of adding a decent description is minimal for a +packager, the effort for a normal user of making a patch is much +higher, this is not a very friendly answer towards the users... + +><i> Since I never received anything for my own packages for this kind of +</I>><i> problem, shall I assume that my packages are fine ? +</I> +I don't know which ones are your packages, this wasn't meant personally +towards you or anyone specific, I don't think including a decent package +description in all Mageia packages (each packager for their own +packages) is such a bad or hard thing to ask for. + +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002588.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002590.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2589">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2589">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2589">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2589">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002590.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002590.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..34ebe0622 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002590.html @@ -0,0 +1,133 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287881521.22938.188.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002589.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002592.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287881521.22938.188.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 02:52:01 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002589.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002592.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2590">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2590">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2590">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2590">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 02:09 +0200, Tux99 a écrit : +><i> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 00:59 +0200, Tux99 a écrit : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > > I 100% agree with that and this is something that the packagers really +</I>><i> > > should do. What's the point in packaging up a great useful app, but then +</I>><i> > > saving time on the description so nobody but a few insiders use it, +</I>><i> > > because nobody know what it is for? +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Even I still come across packages I have never heard of and then wonder +</I>><i> > > what they are for, immagine a newbie who doesn't really know any of the +</I>><i> > > Linux apps by name. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Well, writing better description is a task that do not requires +</I>><i> > technical knowledge, and that any packagers could do, if people send a +</I>><i> > patch. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Come on... the effort of adding a decent description is minimal for a +</I>><i> packager, the effort for a normal user of making a patch is much +</I>><i> higher, this is not a very friendly answer towards the users... +</I> +I think I demonstrated in the past that constant friendliness toward +users is not one of my distinctive characteristics. + +The patch arguent is invalid, because people can also send mail, like +"here is a better description of package $FOO because I didn't +understood the current one and I wanted to help". + +So while sending a email and finding the packager email can be hard for +some people, I doubt that sending a email is hard for everybody. + +If writing a decent description is easy and almost effortless, and if +sending a email is easy, then what is difficult into doing both ? + +><i> > Since I never received anything for my own packages for this kind of +</I>><i> > problem, shall I assume that my packages are fine ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't know which ones are your packages, this wasn't meant personally +</I>><i> towards you or anyone specific, I don't think including a decent package +</I>><i> description in all Mageia packages (each packager for their own +</I>><i> packages) is such a bad or hard thing to ask for. +</I> +If this is not a hard task, my question still stand, why does no one, be +it packagers and non packagers do it ? + +We could rely on the packagers for everything, but 1) that doesn't scale +2) that doesn't work. + +That doesn't scale because packagers time is a finite ressource. + +And that doesn't work because packagers ( at least me ) most of the time +do not read descriptions, so they do not see something is wrong. +Managing and knowing softwares is our duty, which place use in a +position far away from someone that discover the system. Kde had 3 +majors releases since I started to use Linux, so of course the packages +descriptions change, yet I didn't read them since years. And the same +could be said of most packagers. + +And I think that most of use naively think "if something is wrong, at +least 1 person will say it". yet, it doesn't happen. + +So if we want to scale and make it work, then we need to find how to +make people who are directly concerned contribute. And so, the best way +to find why something didn't happen is to simply ask to people who are +directly concerned. + +So again, why does people do not send improved description ? Because +they fear we will nuke them from orbit ? Because our email are so +obfuscated that no one can find them ? + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002589.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002592.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2590">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2590">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2590">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2590">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002591.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002591.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..14795f141 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002591.html @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Calpine.LMD.2.00.1010232005500.9956%40astro.scholar.athome%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002617.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002605.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Dale Huckeby</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Calpine.LMD.2.00.1010232005500.9956%40astro.scholar.athome%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">spock at evansville.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 03:17:34 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002617.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002605.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2591">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2591">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2591">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2591">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: + +><i> Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 00:59 +0200, Tux99 a écrit : +</I>>><i> On Sat, 23 Oct 2010, Dale Huckeby wrote: +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> One problem in choosing packages is that for many a description of what +</I>>>><i> the app does is sparse or nonexistent. And often the description is of +</I>>>><i> the form: defoliant_2.35.rpm. Install this if you need a defoliant. When +</I>>>><i> I see descriptions like this my first impulse is to wonder, Why did you +</I>>>><i> even bother? Complete descriptions of what each app does, including +</I>>>><i> explaining under what circumstances the user might or might not need it, +</I>>>><i> would go a long way towards making noobies feel less lost. Some apps do +</I>>>><i> an admirable job of explanation. Many don't. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I 100% agree with that and this is something that the packagers really +</I>>><i> should do. What's the point in packaging up a great useful app, but then +</I>>><i> saving time on the description so nobody but a few insiders use it, +</I>>><i> because nobody know what it is for? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Even I still come across packages I have never heard of and then wonder +</I>>><i> what they are for, immagine a newbie who doesn't really know any of the +</I>>><i> Linux apps by name. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, writing better description is a task that do not requires +</I>><i> technical knowledge, and that any packagers could do, if people send a +</I>><i> patch. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Since I never received anything for my own packages for this kind of +</I>><i> problem, shall I assume that my packages are fine ? +</I> +Since I don't have technical knowledge but do like writing descriptions +that might be something I could do. But I don't know how to "send a +patch", unless by that you simply mean including in an email the text +of the description. Your packages probably are fine, but like many +nontechnical users I don't have much idea who maintains which packages. + +Dale Huckeby +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002617.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002605.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2591">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2591">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2591">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2591">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002592.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002592.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b11576d47 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002592.html @@ -0,0 +1,118 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010240421090.17350-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002590.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002594.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010240421090.17350-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 04:40:26 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002590.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002594.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2592">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2592">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2592">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2592">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: + +><i> I think I demonstrated in the past that constant friendliness toward +</I>><i> users is not one of my distinctive characteristics. +</I> +Well, that might have been fine as a Mandriva employee, but as part of a +community distro I personally consider you attitude out of place and not +in line with the spirit of Mageia. + +><i> If writing a decent description is easy and almost effortless, and if +</I>><i> sending a email is easy, then what is difficult into doing both ? +</I> +You don't even need to write a description, usually you can just +copy&paste it from the web site of the software. +Thing is, if the packager does it it's a 1 minute job, if some user +emails it to him, the packager still has to check the description and +then paste it into the spec file, so it saves no time at all. + +><i> We could rely on the packagers for everything, but 1) that doesn't scale +</I>><i> 2) that doesn't work. +</I> +With all due respect, but when talking about a simple description for +each package this is nonsense. + +><i> And that doesn't work because packagers ( at least me ) most of the time +</I>><i> do not read descriptions, so they do not see something is wrong. +</I> +What descriptions do you not read? +The ones of Fedora spec files you simply copy&paste? + +><i> Managing and knowing softwares is our duty, which place use in a +</I>><i> position far away from someone that discover the system. +</I> +Exactly because the packager knows the software he/she packages, it's +easiest for her/him to add a suitable description. + +><i> Kde had 3 majors releases since I started to use Linux, so of course +</I>><i> the packages descriptions change, yet I didn't read them since years. +</I> +I don't understand your point, you surely didn't use the same spec +files for most kde4 packages as for kde3? + +><i> So again, why does people do not send improved description ? +</I> +Finding who the correct packager is, isn't trivial at all, the changelog +often contains various names and the Mdv web site packager list often +doesn't match the names in the spec file. + +I tell you what: + +If I will have full access to all spec files as a Mageia packager, I +will myself add descriptions to many packages if others don't mind, I +don't have a problem with that as long as I can do it directly myself, +without having to contact each fellow packager first. + +But if I have to find the email of the packager for each package that +has a bad or missing description then I won't bother, that would be a +waste of everyone's time. + +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002590.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002594.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2592">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2592">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2592">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2592">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002593.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002593.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3faf318bb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002593.html @@ -0,0 +1,172 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Calpine.LMD.2.00.1010232028520.9956%40astro.scholar.athome%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002600.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002601.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Dale Huckeby</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Calpine.LMD.2.00.1010232028520.9956%40astro.scholar.athome%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">spock at evansville.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 05:13:13 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002600.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002601.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2593">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2593">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2593">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2593">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>>><i> that Tux99 wrote: +</I>>>><i> that Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> . . . . +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> Well, writing better description is a task that do not requires +</I>>>><i> technical knowledge, and that any packagers could do, if people send a +</I>>>><i> patch. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Come on... the effort of adding a decent description is minimal for a +</I>>><i> packager, the effort for a normal user of making a patch is much +</I>>><i> higher, this is not a very friendly answer towards the users... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think I demonstrated in the past that constant friendliness toward +</I>><i> users is not one of my distinctive characteristics. +</I> +<Grin> I appreciate your candor. + +><i> The patch arguent is invalid, because people can also send mail, like +</I>><i> "here is a better description of package $FOO because I didn't +</I>><i> understood the current one and I wanted to help". +</I> +But you didn't say that. You said "send a patch" which is not so user +friendly. Oh that's right, you already addressed that. But yeah, if +I could just send the desired text via email that would be easy, and +for that matter learning to create and send patches would be pretty +easy to learn, too. Just never had reason to before. + +>>><i> Since I never received anything for my own packages for this kind of +</I>>>><i> problem, shall I assume that my packages are fine ? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I don't know which ones are your packages, this wasn't meant personally +</I>>><i> towards you or anyone specific, I don't think including a decent package +</I>>><i> description in all Mageia packages (each packager for their own +</I>>><i> packages) is such a bad or hard thing to ask for. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If this is not a hard task, my question still stand, why does no one, be +</I>><i> it packagers and non packagers do it ? +</I> +You give the reason packagers don't do it below. As for the reason non- +packagers don't do it, it probably doesn't occur to them, they don't +know where to start, who to talk to, etc. + +><i> We could rely on the packagers for everything, but 1) that doesn't scale +</I>><i> 2) that doesn't work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That doesn't scale because packagers time is a finite ressource. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And that doesn't work because packagers ( at least me ) most of the time +</I>><i> do not read descriptions, so they do not see something is wrong. +</I>><i> Managing and knowing softwares is our duty, which place use in a +</I>><i> position far away from someone that discover the system. Kde had 3 +</I>><i> majors releases since I started to use Linux, so of course the packages +</I>><i> descriptions change, yet I didn't read them since years. And the same +</I>><i> could be said of most packagers. +</I> +That's a common effect of expertise. The expert knows too much to easily +put himself in the shoes of those who know very little. When we went +from index cards to computers at a university bookstore where I used to +work the department manager, after a few weeks, asked each of us to +write step by step instructions beginners could use to accomplish various +tasks, and it was striking how much we inadvertently left out. We'd say, +"go to such and such a file", forgetting that only a few weeks earlier +none of us knew how to "go to" a file. It must be that much harder for +programmers to put themselves in the shoes of ordinary users and realize +how much they don't know that needs to be spelled out (in what must be, +for the expert, excruciating detail). I've helped people users who were +unable to make sense of expert instruction because it assumed too much +and explained too little, so there's definitely a need for nontechnical +or semitechnical contributors. + +><i> And I think that most of use naively think "if something is wrong, at +</I>><i> least 1 person will say it". yet, it doesn't happen. +</I> +Yes, you are being naive. Other packagers aren't going to say anything +because it's not their package and because, like you, they don't really +notice the missing descriptions. And ordinary users aren't part of that +world, so it doesn't occur to them to say anything, or to contribute +in any way, because it would seem presumptuous. I think Mageia should +make a special effort to recruit, to make to feel comfortable, users +who might want to contribute but don't know how, who feel kind of lost +at sea when it comes to knowing where to begin. + +><i> So if we want to scale and make it work, then we need to find how to +</I>><i> make people who are directly concerned contribute. And so, the best way +</I>><i> to find why something didn't happen is to simply ask to people who are +</I>><i> directly concerned. +</I> +Exactly. There needs to be some way new users can be informed, either in +the install process itself or via, say, an icon on the desktop which, +when clicked, explains briefly what Mageia is, how users can contribute, +where they can go to get more information, etc. + +><i> So again, why does people do not send improved description ? Because +</I>><i> they fear we will nuke them from orbit ? Because our email are so +</I>><i> obfuscated that no one can find them ? +</I> +No, but they do need handholding and encouragement, because while this +environment (programmers working together to create a distro) is in a +sense "home" to you for them it's foreign soil. + +Dale Huckeby + +p.s. You're not really going to nuke me from orbit, are you? :) + + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002600.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002601.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2593">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2593">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2593">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2593">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002594.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002594.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..402169b5c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002594.html @@ -0,0 +1,182 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC3CD52.10209%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002592.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002595.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC3CD52.10209%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 08:08:18 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002592.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002595.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2594">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2594">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2594">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2594">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Tux99 skrev 24.10.2010 05:40: +><i> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I think I demonstrated in the past that constant friendliness toward +</I>>><i> users is not one of my distinctive characteristics. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, that might have been fine as a Mandriva employee, but as part of a +</I>><i> community distro I personally consider you attitude out of place and not +</I>><i> in line with the spirit of Mageia. +</I>><i> +</I> +And the spirit of Mageia also states that its a community distribution +where _everyone_ can (should?) help... + + +>><i> If writing a decent description is easy and almost effortless, and if +</I>>><i> sending a email is easy, then what is difficult into doing both ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You don't even need to write a description, usually you can just +</I>><i> copy&paste it from the web site of the software. +</I>><i> Thing is, if the packager does it it's a 1 minute job, if some user +</I>><i> emails it to him, the packager still has to check the description and +</I>><i> then paste it into the spec file, so it saves no time at all. +</I>><i> +</I> +It saves the packagers time as he does not need to check the website... +Yes, he still needs to check the description, but he has to do that +anyway even if he copy&paste it himself... + +And not all webpages have a good description for every package... + +>><i> We could rely on the packagers for everything, but 1) that doesn't scale +</I>>><i> 2) that doesn't work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> With all due respect, but when talking about a simple description for +</I>><i> each package this is nonsense. +</I>><i> +</I> +Well, take a "simple description", multiply it with the amount of +packages in the repo and you see its ends up being _a lot_ + +And there is also packagers that are not native english speakers, +or the package is not available with a english website and so on... + +So there is still a place for the community to help out... + + +>><i> And that doesn't work because packagers ( at least me ) most of the time +</I>>><i> do not read descriptions, so they do not see something is wrong. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What descriptions do you not read? +</I>><i> The ones of Fedora spec files you simply copy&paste? +</I>><i> +</I> +Well, when a packager uses a ready made spec for a package, he most +surely wont check the description so much as he assumes its already ok. + + +And a description that a packager may think is ok, might still mean +nothing to the enduser, so enduser is most welcome to propose changes... + + +>><i> Managing and knowing softwares is our duty, which place use in a +</I>>><i> position far away from someone that discover the system. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Exactly because the packager knows the software he/she packages, it's +</I>><i> easiest for her/him to add a suitable description. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Kde had 3 majors releases since I started to use Linux, so of course +</I>>><i> the packages descriptions change, yet I didn't read them since years. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't understand your point, you surely didn't use the same spec +</I>><i> files for most kde4 packages as for kde3? +</I>><i> +</I> +Without a doubt most of it got reused with a simple s/kde3/kde4/ +(or as many packages use a simple %{name} so it will change + if package name changes) + +>><i> So again, why does people do not send improved description ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Finding who the correct packager is, isn't trivial at all, the changelog +</I>><i> often contains various names and the Mdv web site packager list often +</I>><i> doesn't match the names in the spec file. +</I>><i> +</I> +You dont need to find the packager... +Just enter a bug (enhancement) report and BugZilla and it will know... +(and if bugzilla is way off, Triage will assign it...) + +Thats all that is needed... + +Now if the community cant be bothered to report a simple bug/enhancement +request, why should the packager bother as +the software works anyhow which still is much more important. + +"hey, this package is broken, but I dont care as it has a nice +description" :) + +><i> I tell you what: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If I will have full access to all spec files as a Mageia packager, I +</I>><i> will myself add descriptions to many packages if others don't mind, I +</I>><i> don't have a problem with that as long as I can do it directly myself, +</I>><i> without having to contact each fellow packager first. +</I>><i> +</I> +Well, thats exactly the Community spirit :) + +Packages are stored in a VCS (svn, git) where every packager have commit +access (with a few exeptions to the some core packages such as glibc), +so they can make changes. + +That's also what several contributors have done over the years... + +><i> But if I have to find the email of the packager for each package that +</I>><i> has a bad or missing description then I won't bother, that would be a +</I>><i> waste of everyone's time. +</I> +So if you think its a waste of time to do a little work to improve a +package description, why do you expect the packager to think different ? + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002592.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002595.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2594">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2594">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2594">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2594">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002595.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002595.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0e62146c1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002595.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DvUe1%3DHXPCSvYPu8-TNvG%2B0hXbG%3DhF3BbFQeWp%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002594.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002599.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DvUe1%3DHXPCSvYPu8-TNvG%2B0hXbG%3DhF3BbFQeWp%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 09:21:59 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002594.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002599.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2595">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2595">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2595">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2595">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/10/24 Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">tmb at iki.fi</A>>: +><i> Tux99 skrev 24.10.2010 05:40: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I think I demonstrated in the past that constant friendliness toward +</I>>>><i> users is not one of my distinctive characteristics. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Well, that might have been fine as a Mandriva employee, but as part of a +</I>>><i> community distro I personally consider you attitude out of place and not +</I>>><i> in line with the spirit of Mageia. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And the spirit of Mageia also states that its a community distribution where +</I>><i> _everyone_ can (should?) help... +</I> +Yes, both statements are true and according to the CoC shopuld not be necessary. + +Now, we can go on like in the previous years passing the task from +here to there and back. +Or we can start to fix the problem. + +1. Descriptions in RPMs +Whenever somebody finds a missing or bad description in a package he +should send a mail to the packager, ideally with the description, so +the packager only has to C&P it into his package. + +2. What can we do to improve the package description in the +"Individual package selection during system installation? Most +descriptions there only say "Important" or "Comfortable" or some other +nonsense like that. I really wonder who on earth had that idea! +We need descriptions of the package, what it does. The description +should be available for translation, so that according to the set +language the user sees the package description in his language. + +3. The same is needed in rpmdrake. + +In other words: +We need a way to add descriptions to packages. These descriptions must +be available for the installer in "Individual package selecteion" and +there must be a way to have .po files for the translators. + +Is there something which can be done without passing the ball to and +fro like a tennis match? + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002594.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002599.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2595">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2595">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2595">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2595">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002596.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002596.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2a5d968eb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002596.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Cop.vk2kbvzwn7mcit%40hodgins.homeip.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002616.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002602.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>David W. Hodgins</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Cop.vk2kbvzwn7mcit%40hodgins.homeip.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">davidwhodgins at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 09:27:22 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002616.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002602.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2596">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2596">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2596">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2596">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 20:52:01 -0400, Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: + +><i> The patch arguent is invalid, because people can also send mail, like +</I>><i> "here is a better description of package $FOO because I didn't +</I>><i> understood the current one and I wanted to help". +</I> +Take a look at <A HREF="https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=45605">https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=45605</A> + +I am not a c programmer, but due to my background, working with +mainframes, and what I have learned on my own, I can sometimes +figure out not only what the problem is, but how to fix it. + +I don't know anything about patch files, or the relationship +between packagers, and developers within Mandriva. I was quite +surprised by Matthias's response. From the context, I gather +Matthias, is the upstream developer, and Pacho was the Mandriva +packager, but given the the fact Mandriva is a company, that +appeared to be annoying the actual developer, I chose not to +follow up on the bug. The bug is still there in 2010.1, so I +use my own version, that contains the fix I suggested. + +My personality is such that I actually derive pleasure from +solving problems. I hate getting involved in company style +"politics", so I became self employed, prior to retiring, +and only worked on a contract basis, to solve that problem. + +Even with my background, I did not feel comfortable making +suggestions (for what I expect the developer/packager would +consider cosmetic changes), to things like package descriptions. +I know how to search to find the packages, that will do what +I want, even if the descriptions in the rpm package are not +well written, but most users don't have that ability. + +Yes, people can send email, or file bug reports, if they can figure +out who to send them to, and felt the feedback would be appreciated. +Most people will not. Without a better understanding of who actually +writes the descriptions in the packages, I would not either. + +I'm hoping Mageia will make it easier for people like myself +to not only contact the developer/packager, but also make it +feel like such contact is desired. + +Regards, Dave Hodgins + +Regards, Dave Hodgins +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002616.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002602.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2596">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2596">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2596">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2596">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002597.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002597.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a25ff8f07 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002597.html @@ -0,0 +1,112 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Cop.vk2l6nj7n7mcit%40hodgins.homeip.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002604.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002600.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>David W. Hodgins</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Cop.vk2l6nj7n7mcit%40hodgins.homeip.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">davidwhodgins at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 10:07:25 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002604.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002600.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2597">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2597">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2597">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2597">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 02:08:18 -0400, Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">tmb at iki.fi</A>> wrote: + +><i> You dont need to find the packager... +</I>><i> Just enter a bug (enhancement) report and BugZilla and it will know... +</I>><i> (and if bugzilla is way off, Triage will assign it...) +</I>><i> Thats all that is needed... +</I> +I wish that were true. Actual bug reports, ... + +<A HREF="https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=45605">https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=45605</A> +Reported almost two years ago. Still present in Mandriva. +Minor, cosmetic bug, but still a bug. + +<A HREF="https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=51794">https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=51794</A> +Reported in 2010.1 alpha 1. Still present in final release. + +I've participated in the testing of every release, since mdk 10. + +During the alpha/beta testing of 2010.1, I gave up testing, and +reporting bugs. In my opinion, the primary goal of those tests +should be getting the installer working correctly. All other +bugs can be be fixed, by updates. Only one of the bugs I reported +on the alpha 1 installer was fixed before the actual release. + +Every time I spent 26 hours downloading the installation dvd, after +alpha 1, and testing the install, seemed like a complete waste of +my time. I will not participate in Mandriva alpha/beta testing +anymore, due to this. + +I'm hoping Mageia will place a much higher priority on getting +the installer right. I do understand, that it will likely have +very few developers assigned to it, as most will be busy getting +all of their other packages ready, but really, it goes into the +iso that gets released, and can not be fixed by updates. It +should be the highest priority part of the distribution. + +Any problems with the installer will not be fixable, till the +next release. + +I'm also hoping you will not take this as a personal insult. I +was frustrated enough by the above, that I was already looking +for a better distribution, when Mageia was announced. I'm sure +whoever was responsible for the installer, was doing the best +they could, with their workload on other packages, but it does +get annoying, when bugs, that clearly should be high priority, +do not get fixed. Replying to your message above, seemed like +a good opportunity, to let out this rant. + +As to your actual message, bug reports don't always work, and +when they don't, the users get very frustrated. + +Regards, Dave Hodgins +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002604.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002600.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2597">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2597">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2597">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2597">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002598.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002598.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8d9a77d95 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002598.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%3A%20DE%27s%2C%20fallback%20and%20stability.&In-Reply-To=%3C201010241110.42586.p_christ%40hol.gr%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002585.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002603.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability.</H1> + <B>P. Christeas</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%3A%20DE%27s%2C%20fallback%20and%20stability.&In-Reply-To=%3C201010241110.42586.p_christ%40hol.gr%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability.">p_christ at hol.gr + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 10:10:41 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002585.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002603.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2598">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2598">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2598">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2598">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sunday 24 October 2010, Renaud MICHEL wrote: +><i> On samedi 23 octobre 2010 at 22:55, Michael Scherer wrote : +</I>><i> > then wouldn't it be better to have a way for kde to work when being too +</I>><i> > broken ( ie, a safe mode, like windows and firefox ) ? +</I>+++ + +><i> You can "fix" a KDE configuration problem by removing (or renaming if there +</I>><i> are some important things to get back) the .kde(4) directory. +</I>><i> A newbie can do that, if he still has access to a file manager. +</I> -- + +That's what my provocative message was frankly intended to point out. +Having system components which are fail-tolerant themselves, makes a secondary +DE obsolete. But, having GUI-dependant components, which are also fail-prone, +introduces this need to bloat our installations with duplicates. + +The simple answer would be to have the _distros demand stability from upstream +projects_. Additionally, the distros (as final selectors of software) should +prefer the projects which have sound policies about error-handling and +degraded-mode operation. + +Stability, IMHO, is not what Debian does: take 7 versions back and call them +"stable". It is the result of software quality procedures, objective choices +when deciding about code merges, "software engineering" when developing +something. + + + +-- +Say NO to spam and viruses. Stop using Microsoft Windows! +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002585.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002603.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2598">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2598">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2598">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2598">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002599.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002599.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d89e4b9af --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002599.html @@ -0,0 +1,125 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC3F11E.1050003%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002595.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002604.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC3F11E.1050003%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 10:41:02 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002595.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002604.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2599">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2599">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2599">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2599">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Wolfgang Bornath skrev 24.10.2010 10:21: +><i> 2010/10/24 Thomas Backlund<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">tmb at iki.fi</A>>: +</I>>><i> Tux99 skrev 24.10.2010 05:40: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> I think I demonstrated in the past that constant friendliness toward +</I>>>>><i> users is not one of my distinctive characteristics. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Well, that might have been fine as a Mandriva employee, but as part of a +</I>>>><i> community distro I personally consider you attitude out of place and not +</I>>>><i> in line with the spirit of Mageia. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> And the spirit of Mageia also states that its a community distribution where +</I>>><i> _everyone_ can (should?) help... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, both statements are true and according to the CoC shopuld not be necessary. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now, we can go on like in the previous years passing the task from +</I>><i> here to there and back. +</I>><i> Or we can start to fix the problem. +</I>><i> +</I> +Exactly. + +><i> 1. Descriptions in RPMs +</I>><i> Whenever somebody finds a missing or bad description in a package he +</I>><i> should send a mail to the packager, ideally with the description, so +</I>><i> the packager only has to C&P it into his package. +</I>><i> +</I> +Yep. + +><i> 2. What can we do to improve the package description in the +</I>><i> "Individual package selection during system installation? Most +</I>><i> descriptions there only say "Important" or "Comfortable" or some other +</I>><i> nonsense like that. I really wonder who on earth had that idea! +</I>><i> We need descriptions of the package, what it does. The description +</I>><i> should be available for translation, so that according to the set +</I>><i> language the user sees the package description in his language. +</I>><i> +</I> +I guess the "Important/Comfortable/..." tag comes from rpmsrate +accoording to if they are installed by default, 2. if enough room +or just available. + + +><i> 3. The same is needed in rpmdrake. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In other words: +</I>><i> We need a way to add descriptions to packages. These descriptions must +</I>><i> be available for the installer in "Individual package selecteion" and +</I>><i> there must be a way to have .po files for the translators. +</I>><i> +</I> +We already have the translation support of rpm summaries in place, +but most translation teams have not touched them (or only little)... +See: <A HREF="http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats/doc/trunk/po/">http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats/doc/trunk/po/</A> + +><i> Is there something which can be done without passing the ball to and +</I>><i> fro like a tennis match? +</I>><i> +</I> +Suggestions and preferably patches welcome :) + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002595.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002604.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2599">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2599">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2599">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2599">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002600.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002600.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..dfc938f30 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002600.html @@ -0,0 +1,160 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC3F5D6.7080509%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002597.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002593.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC3F5D6.7080509%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 11:01:10 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002597.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002593.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2600">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2600">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2600">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2600">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>David W. Hodgins skrev 24.10.2010 11:07: +><i> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 02:08:18 -0400, Thomas Backlund<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">tmb at iki.fi</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> You dont need to find the packager... +</I>>><i> Just enter a bug (enhancement) report and BugZilla and it will know... +</I>>><i> (and if bugzilla is way off, Triage will assign it...) +</I>>><i> Thats all that is needed... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I wish that were true. Actual bug reports, ... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=45605">https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=45605</A> +</I>><i> Reported almost two years ago. Still present in Mandriva. +</I>><i> Minor, cosmetic bug, but still a bug. +</I>><i> +</I> +Yeah, +this one points out one known problem... + +we have more packages than maintainers, and if no maintainer steps up, +the conclusion Pacho made is unfortunately true. + + +><i> <A HREF="https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=51794">https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=51794</A> +</I>><i> Reported in 2010.1 alpha 1. Still present in final release. +</I>><i> +</I> +Well, one problem in this is that its not easy to reproduce, +as I know several users do test the installer, me included both +with DHCP and with static IP and it has always worked for me... + +But this bug should have been triaged more and asked for a installer +bug report (typing "bug" and it would dump data to either floppy or usb) + +><i> I've participated in the testing of every release, since mdk 10. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> During the alpha/beta testing of 2010.1, I gave up testing, and +</I>><i> reporting bugs. In my opinion, the primary goal of those tests +</I>><i> should be getting the installer working correctly. All other +</I>><i> bugs can be be fixed, by updates. Only one of the bugs I reported +</I>><i> on the alpha 1 installer was fixed before the actual release. +</I>><i> +</I> +The installer is tested many times, but unless someone can either +reproduce it, or ask for the right info, it wont be fixed. + +><i> Every time I spent 26 hours downloading the installation dvd, after +</I>><i> alpha 1, and testing the install, seemed like a complete waste of +</I>><i> my time. I will not participate in Mandriva alpha/beta testing +</I>><i> anymore, due to this. +</I>><i> +</I> +Sad to hear, even if I do understand your frustration. + +><i> I'm hoping Mageia will place a much higher priority on getting +</I>><i> the installer right. I do understand, that it will likely have +</I>><i> very few developers assigned to it, as most will be busy getting +</I>><i> all of their other packages ready, but really, it goes into the +</I>><i> iso that gets released, and can not be fixed by updates. It +</I>><i> should be the highest priority part of the distribution. +</I>><i> +</I> +It's wery important yes... + +><i> Any problems with the installer will not be fixable, till the +</I>><i> next release. +</I>><i> +</I> +Here I'd like us to change the procedure to update the installer +on the mirrors, so you can then start from an updated boot.iso, +get the updated installer and then point it to the initial cd/dvd +for the rpms. + +I've done this myself in the past, so I know it atleast used to work. + +><i> I'm also hoping you will not take this as a personal insult. I +</I>><i> was frustrated enough by the above, that I was already looking +</I>><i> for a better distribution, when Mageia was announced. I'm sure +</I>><i> whoever was responsible for the installer, was doing the best +</I>><i> they could, with their workload on other packages, but it does +</I>><i> get annoying, when bugs, that clearly should be high priority, +</I>><i> do not get fixed. Replying to your message above, seemed like +</I>><i> a good opportunity, to let out this rant. +</I>><i> +</I> +It's no insult when pointing out problems and potential improvements... +We should always be open to changes, and if sometimes a change is not +desired, clearly explain why... + + +><i> As to your actual message, bug reports don't always work, and +</I>><i> when they don't, the users get very frustrated. +</I>><i> +</I> +Very true, + +this is a normal feeling when one have a bug report or an issue +with something be it programs, computers, cars, houses or whatever... + +if no satisfying response (or none at all) then most people get +frustrated... + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002597.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002593.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2600">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2600">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2600">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2600">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002601.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002601.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..69b133aa5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002601.html @@ -0,0 +1,126 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287910627.22938.236.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002593.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002616.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287910627.22938.236.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 10:57:07 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002593.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002616.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2601">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2601">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2601">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2601">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le samedi 23 octobre 2010 à 22:13 -0500, Dale Huckeby a écrit : +><i> > On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > The patch arguent is invalid, because people can also send mail, like +</I>><i> > "here is a better description of package $FOO because I didn't +</I>><i> > understood the current one and I wanted to help". +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But you didn't say that. You said "send a patch" which is not so user +</I>><i> friendly. Oh that's right, you already addressed that. But yeah, if +</I>><i> I could just send the desired text via email that would be easy, and +</I>><i> for that matter learning to create and send patches would be pretty +</I>><i> easy to learn, too. Just never had reason to before. +</I> +Yeah, I say "send a patch" in the general sense, guess that it was too +specific, sorry for the misunderstanding. Usually, people are ok when +being contacted directly with non structured patchs, especially for +something as trivial as changing a string. And at worst, someone will +tell "please fill this in the bugtracker, I will take care of it later". + + +><i> > And I think that most of use naively think "if something is wrong, at +</I>><i> > least 1 person will say it". yet, it doesn't happen. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, you are being naive. Other packagers aren't going to say anything +</I>><i> because it's not their package and because, like you, they don't really +</I>><i> notice the missing descriptions. And ordinary users aren't part of that +</I>><i> world, so it doesn't occur to them to say anything, or to contribute +</I>><i> in any way, because it would seem presumptuous. I think Mageia should +</I>><i> make a special effort to recruit, to make to feel comfortable, users +</I>><i> who might want to contribute but don't know how, who feel kind of lost +</I>><i> at sea when it comes to knowing where to begin. +</I> +Well, we could organize some days on the forum/ml/irc/whatever where +people collectively review packages descriptions. Some people could +review current packages, some other could write proper description, a +third set will review it, and the last part of the group will organize +this with packagers and push the description to cauldron. + +And we could also have people who dedicate them self to read packages +description in changelog to notice such problems in time. + +Debian also has a set of guideline about description, that we could +reuse to improve ours : +<A HREF="http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-pkg-synopsis">http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-pkg-synopsis</A> + +( I must add that I do not volunteer to organize such days, I have +unfortunately enough work to do, but I am ok to give a hand ). + +><i> > So if we want to scale and make it work, then we need to find how to +</I>><i> > make people who are directly concerned contribute. And so, the best way +</I>><i> > to find why something didn't happen is to simply ask to people who are +</I>><i> > directly concerned. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Exactly. There needs to be some way new users can be informed, either in +</I>><i> the install process itself or via, say, an icon on the desktop which, +</I>><i> when clicked, explains briefly what Mageia is, how users can contribute, +</I>><i> where they can go to get more information, etc. +</I> +Maybe a entry "report problem" in the menu that would send them either +to bugzilla ( but I feel this would not be ideal to new users ) or to a +forum/ml/irc ( which would be nice, but I feel that I putting the +problem on someone else shoulder and that's not nice ) ? + +Or something that point to a translated page with instructions ? + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002593.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002616.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2601">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2601">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2601">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2601">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002602.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002602.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c33f706fb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002602.html @@ -0,0 +1,155 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287910736.22938.238.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002596.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002613.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287910736.22938.238.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 10:58:56 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002596.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002613.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2602">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2602">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2602">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2602">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 03:27 -0400, David W. Hodgins a écrit : +><i> On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 20:52:01 -0400, Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > The patch arguent is invalid, because people can also send mail, like +</I>><i> > "here is a better description of package $FOO because I didn't +</I>><i> > understood the current one and I wanted to help". +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Take a look at <A HREF="https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=45605">https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=45605</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I am not a c programmer, but due to my background, working with +</I>><i> mainframes, and what I have learned on my own, I can sometimes +</I>><i> figure out not only what the problem is, but how to fix it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't know anything about patch files, or the relationship +</I>><i> between packagers, and developers within Mandriva. I was quite +</I>><i> surprised by Matthias's response. From the context, I gather +</I>><i> Matthias, is the upstream developer, and Pacho was the Mandriva +</I>><i> packager, but given the the fact Mandriva is a company, that +</I>><i> appeared to be annoying the actual developer, I chose not to +</I>><i> follow up on the bug. The bug is still there in 2010.1, so I +</I>><i> use my own version, that contains the fix I suggested. +</I> +Well, there is a few misunderstanding. + +1) Mandriva is a company, but this is also a community. +Pacho is not the packager, pacho is a member of the triage team. He was +not paid by Mandriva ( hence the lack of star near his name, but this +was not obvious at all ). + +2) as a distribution with volunteer packagers, there is part of the +distro that no one take care of. Leafnode, unfortunatly, is such as +package. I will not say anything new when I seay that NNTP is no longer +all the rage nowadays, and that's unfortunatly mean there is less +interest into taking care of this. + +3) As I said in the past, reporting a bug is nice, but that's not were +the current bottleneck lies, it is on fixing the bug. It is unfortunate +that we didn't really took more attention to bugs with a suggested fix, +because that's something that really should be fixed in priority, as +someone did the effort of not only finding it, but also did the best he +could do to get it fixed. And so I think it deserve a special +attention. + +><i> My personality is such that I actually derive pleasure from +</I>><i> solving problems. I hate getting involved in company style +</I>><i> "politics", so I became self employed, prior to retiring, +</I>><i> and only worked on a contract basis, to solve that problem. +</I> +Well, there was no politics, there was just a shortage of manpower, like +many free software project. + +><i> Even with my background, I did not feel comfortable making +</I>><i> suggestions (for what I expect the developer/packager would +</I>><i> consider cosmetic changes), to things like package descriptions. +</I>><i> I know how to search to find the packages, that will do what +</I>><i> I want, even if the descriptions in the rpm package are not +</I>><i> well written, but most users don't have that ability. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, people can send email, or file bug reports, if they can figure +</I>><i> out who to send them to, and felt the feedback would be appreciated. +</I>><i> Most people will not. Without a better understanding of who actually +</I>><i> writes the descriptions in the packages, I would not either. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm hoping Mageia will make it easier for people like myself +</I>><i> to not only contact the developer/packager, but also make it +</I>><i> feel like such contact is desired. +</I> +Well, if we look rationally, a company where employees use a public +bugtracker and a public mailling list and public irc channel is already +more engaging than my own experience for bugs with Microsoft or Apple. + +But indeed, you need to be aware of those to understand the difference. + +What is missing is the realization that some people were not paid by +Mandriva at all. There is a community around it ( ie, most people using +a @mandriva.org address to post on cooker ). People that started like +you. + +That's unfortunate that people still do not know this, but I guess +that's solely our own fault as a community that we didn't expose more +ourself, +by posting blog posts, by saying it loud, by having a visible community +presence at FOSDEM and other related events ( or by giving interview +just to say that ). + +But I think that if people knew that there is collaboration between +employee and non-employee, they would have feel more welcome. And from +what I read, you didn't know, so you were cautious, which seemed +natural. That's our fault, and that's something we tried to fix with +assembly ( without much sucess on the first try ), something I tried to +fix by being present at every possible free software fair ( without much +success too ) + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002596.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002613.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2602">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2602">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2602">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2602">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002603.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002603.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..60394f1c6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002603.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%3A%20DE%27s%2C%20fallback%20and%20stability.&In-Reply-To=%3C1287911907.22938.253.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002598.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002586.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability.</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%3A%20DE%27s%2C%20fallback%20and%20stability.&In-Reply-To=%3C1287911907.22938.253.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability.">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 11:18:27 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002598.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002586.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2603">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2603">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2603">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2603">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 11:10 +0300, P. Christeas a écrit : + +><i> Stability, IMHO, is not what Debian does: take 7 versions back and call them +</I>><i> "stable". It is the result of software quality procedures, objective choices +</I>><i> when deciding about code merges, "software engineering" when developing +</I>><i> something. +</I> +What Debian offer is stability at the distribution level, in the sense +"the software do not change", not really stability on software level, ie +what most people understand as "the software do not crash". I would +better call this a robust software than a stable one, due to the +confusion above. + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002598.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002586.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2603">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2603">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2603">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2603">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002604.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002604.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c6785ba07 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002604.html @@ -0,0 +1,128 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287912731.22938.259.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002599.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002597.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287912731.22938.259.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 11:32:11 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002599.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002597.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2604">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2604">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2604">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2604">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 09:21 +0200, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit : + +><i> 2. What can we do to improve the package description in the +</I>><i> "Individual package selection during system installation? Most +</I>><i> descriptions there only say "Important" or "Comfortable" or some other +</I>><i> nonsense like that. I really wonder who on earth had that idea! +</I>><i> We need descriptions of the package, what it does. The description +</I>><i> should be available for translation, so that according to the set +</I>><i> language the user sees the package description in his language. +</I> +Yup, but that's not trivial, from a technical point of view. + +Rpm allow to have translation in spec file, but that's not .po, that's +more "let's translators edit the source code directly", which is +unintegrated with translators tools, do not take care of fuzzy string +and may break software build due to subtilities in specs ( like the +usage of % for macros, etc ). + +More ever, everything will appear in the packages indexes, which mean : +- more memory used for all installation +- bigger indexes to download +- longer time to load from disk, which mean longer rpmdrake startup +- less space on cd and or dvd. + +So we need to find a better way. + +Better in two points : +- better way to distribute it +- better way to translate it + +The distribution part is IMHO the easiest now we have the control of the +main mirror. We can just split the hdlist in 2, one for the description, +for each languages, one for the metadata, and let urpmi/whatever combine +this into a regular hdlist and use this. We can even maybe find a way +that will not break smart and others. + +The translation part is more tricky, we tried in the past with the +CVS-po project, but it didn't work, maybe someone who as around that +time could tell us. Anne know for sure, Wolfgang is likely to know too. + +Basically, the idea was to extract the summary and description from the +packages indexes, and then convert this as .po file. There is a small +problem however. If we use .po per package, then it will be hellish for +translators to open 10000 files ( imho, maybe I am wrong ). If we use +one .po for repository, then the files are huge and maybe consume too +much ressources ( even if nowadays, laptops are provided with more +memory than the server we use at PLF for everything). + +Maybe we can group rpm .po, like 1 file for 100 rpms description, but I +fear this will bring problem too. + +Then we also have to write a software that goes from .po to hdlist, of +course, which may e non trivial ( as it requires both intimate knowledge +about rpm and gettext ). + +><i> 3. The same is needed in rpmdrake. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In other words: +</I>><i> We need a way to add descriptions to packages. These descriptions must +</I>><i> be available for the installer in "Individual package selecteion" and +</I>><i> there must be a way to have .po files for the translators. +</I> +Yup. + +><i> Is there something which can be done without passing the ball to and +</I>><i> fro like a tennis match? +</I> +On the translation side, it is work. On the improve description side, I +suggest to organize day dedicated to the task, like the bug days. See my +other mail on the thread about it. +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002599.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002597.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2604">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2604">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2604">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2604">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002605.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002605.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9cccd4793 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002605.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20network%20balancing%20by%20default&In-Reply-To=%3C201010241143.28275.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002591.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002618.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default</H1> + <B>Maarten Vanraes</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20network%20balancing%20by%20default&In-Reply-To=%3C201010241143.28275.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 11:43:28 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002591.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002618.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2605">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2605">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2605">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2605">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I would propose the following: + +A.) by default, add for every interface, a little advanced routing which makes +packets return from the same way they came. +This usually is only useful with incoming packets, but can still be useful if +laptops have for example 2 gateways because the wifi is still on and the cable +is too. That would mean that from both interfaces it'd be possible to use ssh +or vnc or whatever. + +B.) if we have multiple gateways (like in that case), have them use both +balancedly. ie: start a small daemon which checks which of the gateways is up +or down; and change the default gateway accordingly, or even both in some kind +of balanced mode. (with advanced routing.) + +This would have the benefit, if you have really clueless users with a laptop; +that everything will still work well. and you're still able to take over his +laptop. + +WDYT? + +Maarten +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002591.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002618.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2605">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2605">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2605">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2605">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002606.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002606.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f828f53db --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002606.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%09%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC40AA4.3060707%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002618.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002607.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)</H1> + <B>Kristoffer Grundström</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%09%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC40AA4.3060707%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)">kristoffer.grundstrom1983 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 12:29:56 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002618.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002607.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2606">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2606">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2606">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2606">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> When it comes to the bugzilla that Mageia is going to use I've got a +couple of suggestions for it. + +1. *_IF_* you're going to use Bugzilla <<A HREF="http://www.bugzilla.com">http://www.bugzilla.com</A>> as a +bugreporter-site, keep the version of it updated. Current latest version +of Bugzilla is 3.6.2 AFAIK. +2. Please consider making it working much like Launchpad since the +QA-bugzilla for Mandriva doesn't gather needed info automatically. + +Thank you for reading this. + +/Kristoffer Grundström +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101024/6c85146d/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002618.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002607.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2606">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2606">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2606">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2606">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002607.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002607.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..daf1f6177 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002607.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%20%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3C1287916725.22938.260.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002606.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002608.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%20%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3C1287916725.22938.260.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 12:38:45 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002606.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002608.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2607">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2607">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2607">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2607">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 12:29 +0200, Kristoffer Grundström a +écrit : +><i> When it comes to the bugzilla that Mageia is going to use I've got a +</I>><i> couple of suggestions for it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1. *_IF_* you're going to use Bugzilla <<A HREF="http://www.bugzilla.com">http://www.bugzilla.com</A>> as a +</I>><i> bugreporter-site, keep the version of it updated. Current latest version +</I>><i> of Bugzilla is 3.6.2 AFAIK. +</I> +Well, what feature of the new bugzilla is missing exactly ? + +><i> 2. Please consider making it working much like Launchpad since the +</I>><i> QA-bugzilla for Mandriva doesn't gather needed info automatically. +</I> +Can you elaborate more ? + + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002606.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002608.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2607">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2607">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2607">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2607">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002608.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002608.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f45a3089c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002608.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%20%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC40EAE.5060906%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002607.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002609.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)</H1> + <B>Kristoffer Grundström</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%20%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC40EAE.5060906%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)">kristoffer.grundstrom1983 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 12:47:10 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002607.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002609.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2608">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2608">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2608">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2608">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> 2010-10-24 12:38, Michael Scherer skrev: +><i> Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 12:29 +0200, Kristoffer Grundström a +</I>><i> écrit : +</I>>><i> When it comes to the bugzilla that Mageia is going to use I've got a +</I>>><i> couple of suggestions for it. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> 1. *_IF_* you're going to use Bugzilla<<A HREF="http://www.bugzilla.com">http://www.bugzilla.com</A>> as a +</I>>><i> bugreporter-site, keep the version of it updated. Current latest version +</I>>><i> of Bugzilla is 3.6.2 AFAIK. +</I>><i> Well, what feature of the new bugzilla is missing exactly ? +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> 2. Please consider making it working much like Launchpad since the +</I>>><i> QA-bugzilla for Mandriva doesn't gather needed info automatically. +</I>><i> Can you elaborate more ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>Well, compare with Launchpad-reportingsite & see what needs to be +implemented. + +There's no way as of today to choose when you're reporting a bug that +affects more than one version & more than one arch. +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002607.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002609.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2608">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2608">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2608">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2608">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002609.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002609.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..65659b3cd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002609.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%09%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinac4EiFZD691e60R3snCrKgpemSZmTCDJMAfGG%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002608.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002610.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)</H1> + <B>Ahmad Samir</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%09%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinac4EiFZD691e60R3snCrKgpemSZmTCDJMAfGG%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)">ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 12:48:33 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002608.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002610.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2609">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2609">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2609">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2609">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 24 October 2010 12:38, Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +><i> Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 12:29 +0200, Kristoffer Grundström a +</I> +[...] + +><i> +</I>>><i> 2. Please consider making it working much like Launchpad since the +</I>>><i> QA-bugzilla for Mandriva doesn't gather needed info automatically. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Can you elaborate more ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Michael Scherer +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I> +He's probably talking about apport in ubuntu, which uploads various +logs to ubuntu's launchpad when an app crashes. Of course Kristoffer +was told before (by fcrozat IIRC) that apport in ubuntu has server +side support that won't work with Mageia (or Mandriva), IIUC. + +However there's abrt (<A HREF="https://fedorahosted.org/abrt/">https://fedorahosted.org/abrt/</A>) but it wasn't +fully integrated in mdv. + +-- +Ahmad Samir +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002608.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002610.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2609">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2609">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2609">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2609">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002610.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002610.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b31200890 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002610.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%20%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC40F56.9040202%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002609.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002611.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)</H1> + <B>Kristoffer Grundström</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%20%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC40F56.9040202%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)">kristoffer.grundstrom1983 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 12:49:58 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002609.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002611.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2610">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2610">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2610">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2610">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> 2010-10-24 12:48, Ahmad Samir skrev: +><i> On 24 October 2010 12:38, Michael Scherer<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 12:29 +0200, Kristoffer Grundström a +</I>><i> [...] +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> 2. Please consider making it working much like Launchpad since the +</I>>>><i> QA-bugzilla for Mandriva doesn't gather needed info automatically. +</I>>><i> Can you elaborate more ? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> -- +</I>>><i> Michael Scherer +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> He's probably talking about apport in ubuntu, which uploads various +</I>><i> logs to ubuntu's launchpad when an app crashes. Of course Kristoffer +</I>><i> was told before (by fcrozat IIRC) that apport in ubuntu has server +</I>><i> side support that won't work with Mageia (or Mandriva), IIUC. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> However there's abrt (<A HREF="https://fedorahosted.org/abrt/">https://fedorahosted.org/abrt/</A>) but it wasn't +</I>><i> fully integrated in mdv. +</I>><i> +</I>I think that'll do as well. Thanks for giving an example. +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002609.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002611.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2610">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2610">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2610">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2610">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002611.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002611.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8b2e678d0 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002611.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%09%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3C201010241252.32703.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002610.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002612.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)</H1> + <B>Maarten Vanraes</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20upcoming%20bugreporting-site%0A%09%28Bugzilla%3F%29&In-Reply-To=%3C201010241252.32703.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?)">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 12:52:32 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002610.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002612.html">[Mageia-discuss] which version of a software in cauldron ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2611">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2611">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2611">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2611">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Op zondag 24 oktober 2010 12:38:45 schreef Michael Scherer: +><i> Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 à 12:29 +0200, Kristoffer Grundström a +</I>><i> +</I>><i> écrit : +</I>><i> > When it comes to the bugzilla that Mageia is going to use I've got a +</I>><i> > couple of suggestions for it. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > 1. *_IF_* you're going to use Bugzilla <<A HREF="http://www.bugzilla.com">http://www.bugzilla.com</A>> as a +</I>><i> > bugreporter-site, keep the version of it updated. Current latest version +</I>><i> > of Bugzilla is 3.6.2 AFAIK. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, what feature of the new bugzilla is missing exactly ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > 2. Please consider making it working much like Launchpad since the +</I>><i> > QA-bugzilla for Mandriva doesn't gather needed info automatically. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Can you elaborate more ? +</I> +i am interested as well; if there's some kind of way to autogather info... +(provided it's accurate or changable) +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002610.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002612.html">[Mageia-discuss] which version of a software in cauldron ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2611">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2611">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2611">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2611">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002612.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002612.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ee4376c89 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002612.html @@ -0,0 +1,180 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] which version of a software in cauldron ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20which%20version%20of%20a%20software%20in%20cauldron%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC43081.4050004%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002611.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] which version of a software in cauldron ?</H1> + <B>Philippe DIDIER</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20which%20version%20of%20a%20software%20in%20cauldron%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC43081.4050004%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] which version of a software in cauldron ?">philippedidier at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 15:11:29 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002611.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2612">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2612">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2612">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2612">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I want to point a little problem about the version of a FOO software +included in the distribution : + +two ways for cauldron + +1 ) Use always the last development release of FOO (beta or rc n+1) +(means several downloadings of sources from the svn or git of the +project, and several modifications of the spec file and patches) +a) advantages for the packager : you are always able to build the rpm by +adapting its spec file progressively, following the changes of the FOO +software + +b) Problem for a tester of this FOO (n+1) software (I mean somebody +wanting to contribute to the FOO project) : if you use cauldron to test +it, you may encounter bugs and may not know if they belongs to cauldron +or to the FOO (beta n+1) software + +c) Problem for the final user : when cauldron is frozen before the final +release of Mageia, it may be frozen with a beta release of this software +(n+1), still buggy ! and that's this buggy (beta or rc n+1) version +which will be provided with the final release of Mageia. + +d) needs some acute attention from the packager : when a final release +of the FOO (n+1)program appears and is packaged in cauldron : he MUST +provide it in the updates repos of the last releases of Mageia (2011, 2012) + + +2) Use only the last stable version of FOO (n) in cauldron : +a) advantages for the packager : needs less frequent modifications of +the spec files and uses of the buildsystem + +b) problem for the packager : needs a huge work in one time to adapt the +spec file from (n) version to (n+1) + +c) Problem for the tester contributer of the FOO program : he can never +test the betas or release candidates with rpms from Mageia + +d) advantages for the final user : Mageia final release is always +providing a stable release of the FOO software + +e) when a new stable version (n+1) of the FOO software appears, the +packager may provide it to cauldron and to the updates repos of the last +releases of Mageia (2011, 2012) in the same time BUT !!! these rpms +haven't been tested as well as in first case (NB I'm not talking only of +installing the packages but of the FOO program itself too, sometimes the +FOO program needs some little adaptations for a particular distribution, +and needs upstream feedback for this) + + + + +A testing repo for the release of Mageia (2011, 2012) should be useful ! +but it can be understood in two different ways : + +1 ) It provides the rpm of the new stable release of FOO (n+1) +(published after the last version of Mageia 2012, and having yet been +built for cauldron) to test if the rpm is OK before providing it as an +update for Mageia (2011,2012) (eventually needing modifications of the +spec file or needing upstream bug corrections to adapt the software for +Mageia specificity) + +or +2) It provides rpms of development versions (betas, rc) of FOO (n+1) to +test and contribute to FOO project on a stable basis from Mageia before +providing a rpm of the stable release of FOO (n+1) to updates repos and, +in a second time only, the devs will adapt the spec files to Cauldron +(the cauldron dev will not have to loose time with a buggy software !) + + +To illustrate what I mean : + +An example with a software which has _always_ been _up to date in +cooker _ following each beta or rc release, but unfortunately badly +affordable in Mandriva releases: + +Mandrake 10.2 *hugin** 0.5-0.beta4.1* (not easy to use) BAD +Mandriva 2006 *hugin* *0.5-0.rc1* (freezes) BAD +0.5 final release was never provided as update for Mandriva BAD +Mandriva 2007.0 *hugin* *0.6.1* final release OK stable +Mandriva 2007.1 *hugin* *0.6.1* final release OK stable +Mandriva 2008.0 *hugin* *0.6.1* final release OK stable +Mandriva 2008.1 *hugin* *0.7-0beta4.1* BAD +Mandriva 2009.0 *hugin* *0.7.0-0rc6.1* BAD +*hugin* *0.7.0* final stable release was never provided as update nor +backport for Mandriva 2009.0 nor 2008.1 BAD +nor provided for Mandriva 2009.1 BAD : +Mandriva 2009.1 *hugin* *0.8.0-0.beta2.1* BAD +*hugin 0.8* final release was never provided as update nor backport to +2009.1 BAD +Mandriva 2010.0 *hugin 2009.2.0* (new version numbering) OK stable +Mandriva 2010.1 *hugin* * 2009.4.0* _(quite_) OK stable +*hugin* * 2010.0.0* published before Mandriva 2010.1 appears was not +included in it nor provided as update nor backport for Mandriva +*hugin 2010.2.0* published 10 october 2010 is in cooker .... + +*Please keep it and use it for Mageia* + + +Sidetalk : I tried to compile hugin 0.7.0 or 0.8.0 final release for +Mandriva 2008.1, it was not doable : from hugin 0.7.0 rc4 compiling +hugin needed cmake : cmake(2.4.8) was buggy , not able to find the +wxwidgets headers, and was never corrected nor updated for Mandriva +2008.1... +cmake had been updated for Mandriva 2009.0 but not backportable as it in +Mandriva 2008.1... +I had to use a srpm of cmake from fedora (2.6.2-3fc9) and could at least +do it for myself + +For French readers it has already been discussed on Mandriva forum : +<A HREF="http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=114405&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=hugin">http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=114405&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=hugin</A> +<<A HREF="http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=114405&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=hugin">http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=114405&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=hugin</A>> + + +Hope this will help to think about repo trees ! +Philippe + + + + + + +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002611.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2612">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2612">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2612">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2612">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002613.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002613.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..51975708d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002613.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Calpine.LMD.2.00.1010241017270.10363%40astro.scholar.athome%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002602.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002614.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Dale Huckeby</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Calpine.LMD.2.00.1010241017270.10363%40astro.scholar.athome%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">spock at evansville.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 17:43:47 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002602.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002614.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2613">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2613">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2613">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2613">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: + +><i> But I think that if people knew that there is collaboration between +</I>><i> employee and non-employee, they would have feel more welcome. And from +</I>><i> what I read, you didn't know, so you were cautious, which seemed +</I>><i> natural. That's our fault, and that's something we tried to fix with +</I>><i> assembly ( without much sucess on the first try ), something I tried to +</I>><i> fix by being present at every possible free software fair ( without much +</I>><i> success too ) +</I> +I know and suspect many others know that Mandriva is created/maintained +by employees plus volunteers. Not knowing that isn't what makes potential +volunteers hesitate (in my opinion). It's not a matter of feeling +UNwelcome. It's an ABSENSE of the existing team going out of their way +to invite in potential contributors, holding their hand, showing them +where to go, who to talk to, what process to follow, etc. As you imply +above, it's lack of effective communication. Perhaps it's hard for +people on the "inside" to realize how lost potential contributors on the +"outside" feel unless there's a concerted effort to include them in and +guide them through the process. Maybe there should be a person dedicated +to bringing in and guiding new contributors, someone with really good +communication skills. Also, is there a list anywhere of packages that +need a maintainer, so new contributors would have a better idea of where +help is needed? + +Dale Huckeby +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002602.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002614.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2613">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2613">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2613">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2613">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002614.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002614.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..19d215096 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002614.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTintDdesUBzEerwfBuBUrGdbO8URbiovW27Mgt%2B9%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002613.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002615.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Ahmad Samir</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTintDdesUBzEerwfBuBUrGdbO8URbiovW27Mgt%2B9%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 18:05:03 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002613.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002615.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2614">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2614">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2614">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2614">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 24 October 2010 17:43, Dale Huckeby <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">spock at evansville.net</A>> wrote: +><i> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> But I think that if people knew that there is collaboration between +</I>>><i> employee and non-employee, they would have feel more welcome. And from +</I>>><i> what I read, you didn't know, so you were cautious, which seemed +</I>>><i> natural. That's our fault, and that's something we tried to fix with +</I>>><i> assembly ( without much sucess on the first try ), something I tried to +</I>>><i> fix by being present at every possible free software fair ( without much +</I>>><i> success too ) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I know and suspect many others know that Mandriva is created/maintained +</I>><i> by employees plus volunteers. Not knowing that isn't what makes potential +</I>><i> volunteers hesitate (in my opinion). It's not a matter of feeling +</I>><i> UNwelcome. It's an ABSENSE of the existing team going out of their way +</I>><i> to invite in potential contributors, holding their hand, showing them +</I>><i> where to go, who to talk to, what process to follow, etc. +</I> +That's exactly what happened to me, how I became a packager, so maybe +it's not all people on the inside not reaching out. + + > As you imply +><i> above, it's lack of effective communication. Perhaps it's hard for +</I>><i> people on the "inside" to realize how lost potential contributors on the +</I>><i> "outside" feel unless there's a concerted effort to include them in and +</I>><i> guide them through the process. Maybe there should be a person dedicated +</I>><i> to bringing in and guiding new contributors, someone with really good +</I>><i> communication skills. +</I> +Ideally it's a two way process, a user wanna contribute and a mentor +doesn't mind to mentor/tutor him. + +It was Jerome Quelin who started the "So, you wanna be a packager?" +thread on the cooker ML, that's what encouraged me, and other new +contributors, to come forward. So yeah, such "campaigns" are needed. + +><i> Also, is there a list anywhere of packages that +</I>><i> need a maintainer, so new contributors would have a better idea of where +</I>><i> help is needed? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Dale Huckeby +</I>><i> +</I> +There is: <A HREF="http://maintainers.mandriva.com/listpkgs.php?owner=1">http://maintainers.mandriva.com/listpkgs.php?owner=1</A> +and of course, there'll be a packages/maintainers database in Mageia too. + +(Note that not every package in that list is current, i.e. it could be +a dead package (upstream stopped developing it.. etc); also there're +packages that have nomaintainer but get updated regularly). + +-- +Ahmad Samir +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002613.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002615.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2614">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2614">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2614">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2614">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002615.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002615.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0ee535dd1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002615.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikTOFbGnEoVGAZM_3rY8RdZjWS_UoZMku_okYZj%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002614.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002617.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikTOFbGnEoVGAZM_3rY8RdZjWS_UoZMku_okYZj%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 18:17:51 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002614.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002617.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2615">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2615">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2615">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2615">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>It's not only the packagers. Was it not for the personal contacts I +had at Mandriva and in the community I would not have continued any +contribution after Mandriva terminated my contract. +But in general the difference between Mandriva and Mageia is really +the difference between company and community. + +While at Mandriva most users felt more like customers of a commercial +company than as parts of a community, with Mageia it's totally +different. +While with Mandriva the users always regarded the distribution as a +product of the company, being served to them (no matter whether there +were only employees or more contributors than employees). With Mageia +it is now _their_ product which _they_ serve to themselves and others. + +I think this is the core difference and we have to prove that this +impression is right. +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002614.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002617.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2615">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2615">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2615">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2615">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002616.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002616.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..485ae7494 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002616.html @@ -0,0 +1,124 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Calpine.LMD.2.00.1010241104550.10363%40astro.scholar.athome%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002601.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002596.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Dale Huckeby</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Calpine.LMD.2.00.1010241104550.10363%40astro.scholar.athome%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">spock at evansville.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 18:20:37 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002601.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002596.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2616">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2616">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2616">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2616">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>>><i> Le samedi 23 octobre 2010 à 22:13 -0500, Dale Huckeby a écrit : +</I>>>><i> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> . . . . +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> And I think that most of use naively think "if something is wrong, at +</I>>>><i> least 1 person will say it". yet, it doesn't happen. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Yes, you are being naive. Other packagers aren't going to say anything +</I>>><i> because it's not their package and because, like you, they don't really +</I>>><i> notice the missing descriptions. And ordinary users aren't part of that +</I>>><i> world, so it doesn't occur to them to say anything, or to contribute +</I>>><i> in any way, because it would seem presumptuous. I think Mageia should +</I>>><i> make a special effort to recruit, to make to feel comfortable, users +</I>>><i> who might want to contribute but don't know how, who feel kind of lost +</I>>><i> at sea when it comes to knowing where to begin. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, we could organize some days on the forum/ml/irc/whatever where +</I>><i> people collectively review packages descriptions. Some people could +</I>><i> review current packages, some other could write proper description, a +</I>><i> third set will review it, and the last part of the group will organize +</I>><i> this with packagers and push the description to cauldron. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And we could also have people who dedicate them self to read packages +</I>><i> description in changelog to notice such problems in time. +</I> +All this sounds good, although you have an even better and simpler idea +below. + +><i> Debian also has a set of guideline about description, that we could +</I>><i> reuse to improve ours : +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-pkg-synopsis">http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-pkg-synopsis</A> +</I> +Nice. + +>>><i> So if we want to scale and make it work, then we need to find how to +</I>>>><i> make people who are directly concerned contribute. And so, the best way +</I>>>><i> to find why something didn't happen is to simply ask to people who are +</I>>>><i> directly concerned. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Exactly. There needs to be some way new users can be informed, either in +</I>>><i> the install process itself or via, say, an icon on the desktop which, +</I>>><i> when clicked, explains briefly what Mageia is, how users can contribute, +</I>>><i> where they can go to get more information, etc. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Maybe a entry "report problem" in the menu that would send them either +</I>><i> to bugzilla ( but I feel this would not be ideal to new users ) or to a +</I>><i> forum/ml/irc ( which would be nice, but I feel that I putting the +</I>><i> problem on someone else shoulder and that's not nice ) ? +</I> +I like the idea of pointing users to a forum. Perhaps there could be a +forum or forum section dedicated specifically to problem reports. It +would also help if one or more individuals with expertise monitored the +forum, asked follow-up questions, or even educated the users in that +forum on how to use the bug report system. But I don't see why that +would not be nice, since nobody would be forced to participate in the +forum. Of course, if no experts participate and newbies are left to +talk to each other, it won't work. + +><i> Or something that point to a translated page with instructions ? +</I> +This is a VERY good idea, simple to implement, that would guide the +newbie volunteer without (initially) taking up anyone's time (once the +instructions have been written). I would suggest that this be an icon +on the desktop. It could open a file on the user's system, or it could +access the url where those instructions are located. + +Dale Huckeby +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002601.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002596.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2616">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2616">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2616">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2616">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002617.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002617.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..95bd8d70b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002617.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287947198.10871.2.camel%40access.dscvcp.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002615.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002591.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>George J. Walsh</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C1287947198.10871.2.camel%40access.dscvcp.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">gjwalsh at dscvcp.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 21:06:38 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002615.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002591.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2617">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2617">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2617">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2617">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, 2010-10-24 at 18:17 +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: +><i> It's not only the packagers. Was it not for the personal contacts I +</I>><i> had at Mandriva and in the community I would not have continued any +</I>><i> contribution after Mandriva terminated my contract. +</I>><i> But in general the difference between Mandriva and Mageia is really +</I>><i> the difference between company and community. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> While at Mandriva most users felt more like customers of a commercial +</I>><i> company than as parts of a community, with Mageia it's totally +</I>><i> different. +</I>><i> While with Mandriva the users always regarded the distribution as a +</I>><i> product of the company, being served to them (no matter whether there +</I>><i> were only employees or more contributors than employees). With Mageia +</I>><i> it is now _their_ product which _they_ serve to themselves and others. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think this is the core difference and we have to prove that this +</I>><i> impression is right. +</I> +Absolutely true, and very well expressed. Methinks if we fail with this, +then we are doomed to fail period. + +George + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002615.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002591.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2617">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2617">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2617">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2617">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002618.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002618.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c2491ca86 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002618.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20network%20balancing%20by%20default&In-Reply-To=%3C20101024203929.GA26911%40maude.comedia.it%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002605.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002606.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default</H1> + <B>Luca Berra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20network%20balancing%20by%20default&In-Reply-To=%3C20101024203929.GA26911%40maude.comedia.it%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default">bluca at vodka.it + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 22:39:29 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002605.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002606.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2618">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2618">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2618">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2618">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 11:43:28AM +0200, Maarten Vanraes wrote: +><i>I would propose the following: +</I>><i> +</I>><i>A.) by default, add for every interface, a little advanced routing which makes +</I>><i>packets return from the same way they came. +</I>><i>This usually is only useful with incoming packets, but can still be useful if +</I>><i>laptops have for example 2 gateways because the wifi is still on and the cable +</I>><i>is too. That would mean that from both interfaces it'd be possible to use ssh +</I>><i>or vnc or whatever. +</I>this is possible with incoming packets, but, how do you select the +source of a new one? + +><i>B.) if we have multiple gateways (like in that case), have them use both +</I>><i>balancedly. ie: start a small daemon which checks which of the gateways is up +</I>><i>or down; and change the default gateway accordingly, or even both in some kind +</I>><i>of balanced mode. (with advanced routing.) +</I>This could go wrong in so many ways i would not even try: +i.e. how do you determine if a gateway is up? dont tell me icmp, many +firewall refuse it, and vrrp standard says the backup gateway should not +answer icmp echo. + +-- +Luca Berra -- <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">bluca at vodka.it</A> +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002605.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002606.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2618">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2618">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2618">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2618">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7dc53df3c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,217 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 24 October 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>24 October 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 00:16:57 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:29 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 34<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002594.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2594"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002599.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2599"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002600.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2600"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002618.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A><A NAME="2618"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002588.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2588"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002595.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2595"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002615.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2615"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002598.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A><A NAME="2598"> </A> +<I>P. Christeas +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002612.html">[Mageia-discuss] which version of a software in cauldron ? +</A><A NAME="2612"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002606.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2606"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002608.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2608"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002610.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2610"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002596.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2596"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002597.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2597"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002591.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2591"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002593.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2593"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002613.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2613"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002616.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2616"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002585.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2585"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002609.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2609"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002614.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2614"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002587.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2587"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002590.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2590"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002601.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2601"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002602.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2602"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002603.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A><A NAME="2603"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002604.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2604"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002607.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2607"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002586.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2586"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002589.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2589"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002592.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2592"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002605.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A><A NAME="2605"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002611.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2611"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002617.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2617"> </A> +<I>George J. Walsh +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:29 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:39 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0ae6c27f5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,217 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 24 October 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>24 October 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 00:16:57 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:29 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 34<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002585.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2585"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002586.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2586"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002587.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2587"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002588.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2588"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002589.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2589"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002590.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2590"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002591.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2591"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002592.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2592"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002593.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2593"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002594.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2594"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002595.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2595"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002596.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2596"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002597.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2597"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002598.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A><A NAME="2598"> </A> +<I>P. Christeas +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002599.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2599"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002601.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2601"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002602.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2602"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002600.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2600"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002603.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A><A NAME="2603"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002604.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2604"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002605.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A><A NAME="2605"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002606.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2606"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002607.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2607"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002608.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2608"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002609.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2609"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002610.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2610"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002611.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2611"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002612.html">[Mageia-discuss] which version of a software in cauldron ? +</A><A NAME="2612"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002613.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2613"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002614.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2614"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002615.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2615"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002616.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2616"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002617.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2617"> </A> +<I>George J. Walsh +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002618.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A><A NAME="2618"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:29 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:39 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7ecae545f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,217 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 24 October 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>24 October 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 00:16:57 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:29 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 34<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002605.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A><A NAME="2605"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002618.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A><A NAME="2618"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002585.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2585"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002586.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2586"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002587.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2587"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002588.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2588"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002589.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2589"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002590.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2590"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002591.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2591"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002592.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2592"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002593.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2593"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002594.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2594"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002595.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2595"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002596.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2596"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002597.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2597"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002599.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2599"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002601.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2601"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002602.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2602"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002600.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2600"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002604.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2604"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002613.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2613"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002614.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2614"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002615.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2615"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002616.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2616"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002617.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2617"> </A> +<I>George J. Walsh +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002606.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2606"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002609.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2609"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002611.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2611"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002607.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2607"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002608.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2608"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002610.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2610"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002598.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A><A NAME="2598"> </A> +<I>P. Christeas +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002603.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A><A NAME="2603"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002612.html">[Mageia-discuss] which version of a software in cauldron ? +</A><A NAME="2612"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:29 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:39 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4fd50463a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,269 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 24 October 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>24 October 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 00:16:57 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:29 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 34<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01287872217- --> +<LI><A HREF="002585.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2585"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287872217-01287907841- --> +<LI><A HREF="002598.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A><A NAME="2598"> </A> +<I>P. Christeas +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01287872217-01287907841-01287911907- --> +<LI><A HREF="002603.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions: DE's, fallback and stability. +</A><A NAME="2603"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01287874793- --> +<LI><A HREF="002586.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2586"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287874793-01287877602- --> +<LI><A HREF="002587.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2587"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01287874793-01287877602-01287878774- --> +<LI><A HREF="002588.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2588"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<!--2 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978- --> +<LI><A HREF="002589.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2589"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521- --> +<LI><A HREF="002590.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2590"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287888026- --> +<LI><A HREF="002592.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2592"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287888026-01287900498- --> +<LI><A HREF="002594.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2594"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287888026-01287900498-01287904919- --> +<LI><A HREF="002595.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2595"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287888026-01287900498-01287904919-01287909662- --> +<LI><A HREF="002599.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2599"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287888026-01287900498-01287904919-01287912731- --> +<LI><A HREF="002604.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2604"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287888026-01287900498-01287907645- --> +<LI><A HREF="002597.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2597"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287888026-01287900498-01287907645-01287910870- --> +<LI><A HREF="002600.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2600"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287889993- --> +<LI><A HREF="002593.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2593"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287889993-01287910627- --> +<LI><A HREF="002601.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2601"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287889993-01287910627-01287937237- --> +<LI><A HREF="002616.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2616"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287905242- --> +<LI><A HREF="002596.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2596"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287905242-01287910736- --> +<LI><A HREF="002602.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2602"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287905242-01287910736-01287935027- --> +<LI><A HREF="002613.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2613"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287905242-01287910736-01287935027-01287936303- --> +<LI><A HREF="002614.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2614"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287905242-01287910736-01287935027-01287936303-01287937071- --> +<LI><A HREF="002615.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2615"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<!--3 01287874793-01287877602-01287878978-01287881521-01287905242-01287910736-01287935027-01287936303-01287937071-01287947198- --> +<LI><A HREF="002617.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2617"> </A> +<I>George J. Walsh +</I> + +</UL> +<!--2 01287874793-01287877602-01287883054- --> +<LI><A HREF="002591.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A><A NAME="2591"> </A> +<I>Dale Huckeby +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01287913408- --> +<LI><A HREF="002605.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A><A NAME="2605"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287913408-01287952769- --> +<LI><A HREF="002618.html">[Mageia-discuss] network balancing by default +</A><A NAME="2618"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +</UL> +<!--0 01287916196- --> +<LI><A HREF="002606.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2606"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287916196-01287916725- --> +<LI><A HREF="002607.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2607"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01287916196-01287916725-01287917230- --> +<LI><A HREF="002608.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2608"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +<!--2 01287916196-01287916725-01287917313- --> +<LI><A HREF="002609.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2609"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01287916196-01287916725-01287917313-01287917398- --> +<LI><A HREF="002610.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2610"> </A> +<I>Kristoffer Grundström +</I> + +</UL> +<!--2 01287916196-01287916725-01287917552- --> +<LI><A HREF="002611.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the upcoming bugreporting-site (Bugzilla?) +</A><A NAME="2611"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01287925889- --> +<LI><A HREF="002612.html">[Mageia-discuss] which version of a software in cauldron ? +</A><A NAME="2612"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:29 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Oct 24 22:39:39 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |