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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001604.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001604.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bc826e455 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001604.html @@ -0,0 +1,192 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Support policy + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Support%20policy&In-Reply-To=%3C20101205112450.GA12918%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001605.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Support policy</H1> + <B>Michael scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Support%20policy&In-Reply-To=%3C20101205112450.GA12918%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Support policy">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 12:24:50 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001605.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1604">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1604">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1604">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1604">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Dec 04, 2010 at 11:38:55AM +0100, Giuseppe Ghibò wrote: +><i> Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> >So while nothing is done, while I am not a member of the QA team nor a +</I>><i> >leader, while I just speak to voice my opinion, and while this is just a +</I>><i> >proposal based on what other have done to solve the same issue than us, +</I>><i> >this show that we can have more ressources than what Mandriva had. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> why this kind of "competition"? +</I> +It is up to you to explain why you see competition when i just +state that we have obviously a different set of ressources. + +><i> >Ie, we need to think with a fresh mind, and I am sure that people can +</I>><i> >creatively propose solutions on the problem : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >"how can we have a more balanced QA and packagers team". +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> What you are saying is good, and I would like to extend what you +</I>><i> posted with what follows. IMHO we are trying to focus too much on +</I>><i> what it was wrong to forget what it was already good, like if what +</I>><i> was already good in the distro would be granted by default (e.g. +</I>><i> trying to focus too much on what is already in ANY of the 100 +</I>><i> distrowatch.com distros: all of them have the same core-packages on +</I>><i> the other hand] to forget what is was already good or better: e.g. +</I>><i> good support for extra hardware, better support for scientific +</I>><i> applications, etc.). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> We should summarize what there is from what there isn't in the +</I>><i> distro. The 2nd problems is that we seem assigning to most packagers +</I>><i> and maintainers some secret powers that they should have, like +</I>><i> knowing the package better or at the same level than upstream +</I>><i> developers. If not, then there are lack of resources...; maybe they +</I>><i> just know how to assemble and compile it...and that's all. IMHO +</I>><i> knowing the package at such high levels has become the exception, +</I>><i> not the rule. One packager/maintainer might know very very well 1 or +</I>><i> maybe 3,4 packages (e.g. colin for pulseaudio, buchan for samba, me +</I>><i> for tex and so on), but there are 10000 packages out there and there +</I>><i> aren't 5000 maintainers... +</I> +Well, we at least except the maintainer to know how to run the software +or how to use it. If someone package a perl module, it is either for running +a script, or for another module ( hence in all case using it ). +So of course, the maintainer do not know everything, but he has at least +basic knowledge about the software. + +><i> I give you an example. In MDV 2010.0 or 2010.1 the kdenlive package, +</I>><i> a video editing application, was not working at all. It crashes on +</I>><i> basic stuff as soon as you open or import a video file. In other +</I>><i> words unusable. How was possible that? Well, one might say poor QA, +</I>><i> bad packagers, bad maintainers or no maintainers at all, or no QA at +</I>><i> all. It your fault, it's their fault, it's our fault. Indeed it +</I>><i> doesn't matter. The main problem is that we rely as main source of +</I>><i> QA the bugzilla. So what is reported on bugzilla has a bug that we +</I>><i> should fix, what there isn't should work by default and has +</I>><i> automagically an higher QA score. IMHO this is a false assumption. I +</I>><i> might find it crashes and be lazy and not doing any bugzilla report, +</I>><i> or I'm not sure about what to tell exactly, because maybe I think +</I>><i> it's fault of my configuration, and so on. In the specific example +</I>><i> backports have a working kdenlive (maybe it's just luck, dunno) but +</I>><i> according to the supposed QA score the kdenlive in main should be +</I>><i> better than the one in backports. And indeed it isn't because any +</I>><i> program barely working is better than any program crashing on +</I>><i> startup. +</I>><i> To solve this there are a lot of solution, but it's not said that +</I>><i> the one or the other should influence people to use this distro and +</I>><i> not another, like we might think. E.g. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1) We might move kdenlive from good main to evil contrib or remove +</I>><i> kdenlive from the distro? Well, a non-existing package won't crash. +</I>><i> And so distro would result more polished, ordered (I like ordered +</I>><i> and cleaned distro with no broken deps in hdlists, really) should +</I>><i> rock. But from point of view of an end user he don't have any video +</I>><i> editing application anyway. So who cares of the others packages he +</I>><i> won't use? +</I> +That solution was already used for koffice or kdevelop, IIRC. +And the fact is while it should be IMHO a really last resort solution, +we cannot avoid keeping it in mind. +And the issue is not only our reputation, but also the one of kdenlive, and +as a distributor, we must think of our upstream as well. + +><i> 2) We might let people know that the backport version works. So more +</I>><i> communcation here. +</I> +Or add the backport to updates, as this would be a bugfix. + +><i> 3) We might add several new rules and weights on the shoulders of +</I>><i> the maintainers/packagers. A packager could fly away, so letting +</I>><i> these rules on the shoulders of the other survived packagers which +</I>><i> then will be more overloaded, and then could fly away more. Sound a +</I>><i> bit like the "highlander" packager... +</I> +Like "running the package at least once to see if it work before uploading" ? +This is not a new rule. + +><i> 4) We might help to let these rules easier, lighter and quicker to +</I>><i> be implemented (more communcation, self or packagers helping each +</I>><i> others, more automatic tools) +</I> + +We need to offload everything we can on automatic scripts. This was my presentation +in 2004 at cooker meeting, and this is still true, IMHO. Youri, rpmlint, etc, all +have served to catch errors that were discovered by random user before. +Of course, this doesn't fix them. + +><i> 5) Add a precise protocol of testing for each package. This might be +</I>><i> automatic or manual (or both). In case of manual, the testing +</I>><i> protocol steps might be performed by anyone. But shouldn't go in the +</I>><i> destructive spiral of more rules. Documentation should be crystal +</I>><i> clear, and information should be easy to catch not let users waste +</I>><i> days and days trying to find the right thing to do, in seeking good +</I>><i> documentation between tons of obsolete and bad one. Also the report +</I>><i> of the testing should be easy to post, not opening 27 sites, scroll +</I>><i> between 18000 packages, wait 10 minutes the server answers, or +</I>><i> sending 84 mails and wait answer from 54 different people...; In +</I>><i> case of kdenlive, a basic protocol test could be like this: 1) +</I>><i> install the package 2) Go on menu Project/Add clip and open the file +</I>><i> blabla.avi HERE... 3) Go on menu Monitor/Clip and click on the +</I>><i> button "play" 4) ... 5) rely also on the upstream protocol testing +</I>><i> if exists 6) report it works by a couple of clicks. This won't +</I>><i> require specific skill and even users who might not have ever used +</I>><i> this package could partecipate. +</I> +Yup. And I think we can adopt this progressively. Ie, first focus on +writing one test file, and then use it. And start with a 2nd test file, etc. +Once there is enough test file, people can organize test days. +And we could even share those procedures with others distributions. + +><i> 5) Punish the one who uploaded the package. Blocking it for one lap. +</I>><i> Well this is a bit scaring ;-) Don't do that. +</I> +Indeed, punishing people should not be used, this doesn't work. We are not child +anymore. And I think this would be humiliating ( but I understand that this +was proposed to be complete ). + +-- +Michael Scherer +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001605.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1604">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1604">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1604">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1604">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001605.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001605.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..52d7b5b1c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001605.html @@ -0,0 +1,156 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTiknkmL2oxeQBJenGf5UfbM8%2BZ82r8-8j-t%3DqKXU%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001604.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001609.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Daniel Kreuter</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTiknkmL2oxeQBJenGf5UfbM8%2BZ82r8-8j-t%3DqKXU%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">daniel.kreuter85 at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 18:36:36 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001604.html">[Mageia-dev] Support policy +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001609.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1605">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1605">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1605">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1605">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:32 PM, andre999 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>> wrote: + +><i> Dale Huckeby a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010, andre999 wrote: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> John a écrit : +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:28:26 +0100 +</I>>>>><i> Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Op vrijdag 03 december 2010 10:45:05 schreef Ahmad Samir: +</I>>>>>><i> [...] +</I>>>>>><i> +</I>>>>>>><i> The kernel uses the word "tainted" when it detects the nvidia +</I>>>>>>><i> proprietary module for example, (which admittedly gave me a bit of +</I>>>>>>><i> shock the first time I saw it :)). +</I>>>>>>><i> +</I>>>>>><i> +</I>>>>>><i> Heh, i had the same reaction. +</I>>>>>><i> +</I>>>>>><i> From all the proposed names, I think "tainted" is the best one, as the +</I>>>>>>><i> +</I>>>>>>><i> packages in there are in a "grey" zone, i.e. not totally illegal +</I>>>>>>><i> everywhere, but illegal only in some places in the world. And in +</I>>>>>>><i> reality the existence of a patent doesn't necessarily mean it's +</I>>>>>>><i> enforceable in a court of law (the only way we'd know for sure is if +</I>>>>>>><i> someone actually does try to sue)... my 0.02€ worth :) +</I>>>>>>><i> +</I>>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Generally only potentially "illegal" in some countries. +</I>>>><i> "Tainted" means contaminated, polluted. A lot stronger than +</I>>>><i> potentially "illegal". (Really only actionable in a civil sense, not +</I>>>><i> criminally illegal, as well.) +</I>>>><i> A package could end up there due to an apparently credible rumour, +</I>>>><i> later discredited. (Anyone remember SCO ?) +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I agree. Problematic comes closer to "potentially illegal", so I looked +</I>>><i> up some synonyms: ambiguous, debatable, dubious, +</I>>><i> iffy, suspect, speculative, precarious, suspicious, uncertain, +</I>>><i> unsettled, in addition to problematic itself. Personally +</I>>><i> I like iffy, which is both short and to the point, but I think several +</I>>><i> of these would do. WDYT? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Dale Huckeby +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> A much better set of choices. +</I>><i> (Thanks for looking these up. Good idea.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Let's remember that the question for these packages is not the quality of +</I>><i> their functioning - but rather the advisability to use them, for other +</I>><i> reasons, in some countries. +</I>><i> So I think that it is better to avoid words that could question the QUALITY +</I>><i> of the packages. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Words in the list like +</I>><i> ambiguous, debatable, problematic, and speculative +</I>><i> avoid questioning the quality ... but could be too long or too formal. +</I>><i> Or just not catchy enough ;) +</I>><i> ("Iffy" might be ok - certainly catchy enough.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Additional words I found in Roget's thesaurus, along the same lines : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Associated more with debatable : +</I>><i> arguable, contestable, controvertible, disputable, questionable, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Associated more with controversial : +</I>><i> confutable, deniable, mistakable, moot +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Of these additional words, I think that "contestable", "disputable", and +</I>><i> "controversial" are probably closest to the SENSE of the repositories. +</I>><i> But maybe too formal ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Many of these words could be good choices. +</I>><i> And maybe someone will come up with some more ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> my 2 cents :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - André +</I>><i> +</I> +What about: main, free, non-free? +In main is everything what belongs to the core, free contains only packages +which are under a free license and in non-free are those which aren't clear +if free or not (what you mentioned earlier in this discussion). + +All three names are as clear as possible what's meant. + +-- +Mit freundlichen Grüßen + +Greetings + +Daniel Kreuter +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20101205/da2938d0/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001604.html">[Mageia-dev] Support policy +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001609.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1605">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1605">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1605">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1605">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001606.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001606.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4aaddf1d8 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001606.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012051957.15665.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001613.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001607.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Maarten Vanraes</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012051957.15665.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 19:57:15 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001613.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001607.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1606">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1606">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1606">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1606">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Op zaterdag 04 december 2010 15:40:58 schreef Hoyt Duff: +><i> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 4:33 AM, andre999 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> > Better than "tainted" :D +</I>><i> +</I>><i> "Tainted" makes me chuckle -- crude anatomical reference. +</I> +I don't get that one... +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001613.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001607.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1606">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1606">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1606">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1606">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001607.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001607.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e4c98debd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001607.html @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012051959.19859.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; 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And in +</I>><i> >>>>> reality the existence of a patent doesn't necessarily mean it's +</I>><i> >>>>> enforceable in a court of law (the only way we'd know for sure is if +</I>><i> >>>>> someone actually does try to sue)... my 0.02€ worth :) +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> Generally only potentially "illegal" in some countries. +</I>><i> >> "Tainted" means contaminated, polluted. A lot stronger than +</I>><i> >> potentially "illegal". (Really only actionable in a civil sense, not +</I>><i> >> criminally illegal, as well.) +</I>><i> >> A package could end up there due to an apparently credible rumour, +</I>><i> >> later discredited. (Anyone remember SCO ?) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I agree. Problematic comes closer to "potentially illegal", so I looked +</I>><i> > up some synonyms: ambiguous, debatable, dubious, +</I>><i> > iffy, suspect, speculative, precarious, suspicious, uncertain, +</I>><i> > unsettled, in addition to problematic itself. Personally +</I>><i> > I like iffy, which is both short and to the point, but I think several +</I>><i> > of these would do. WDYT? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Dale Huckeby +</I>><i> +</I>><i> A much better set of choices. +</I>><i> (Thanks for looking these up. Good idea.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Let's remember that the question for these packages is not the quality +</I>><i> of their functioning - but rather the advisability to use them, for +</I>><i> other reasons, in some countries. +</I>><i> So I think that it is better to avoid words that could question the +</I>><i> QUALITY of the packages. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Words in the list like +</I>><i> ambiguous, debatable, problematic, and speculative +</I>><i> avoid questioning the quality ... but could be too long or too formal. +</I>><i> Or just not catchy enough ;) +</I>><i> ("Iffy" might be ok - certainly catchy enough.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Additional words I found in Roget's thesaurus, along the same lines : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Associated more with debatable : +</I>><i> arguable, contestable, controvertible, disputable, questionable, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Associated more with controversial : +</I>><i> confutable, deniable, mistakable, moot +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Of these additional words, I think that "contestable", "disputable", and +</I>><i> "controversial" are probably closest to the SENSE of the repositories. +</I>><i> But maybe too formal ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Many of these words could be good choices. +</I>><i> And maybe someone will come up with some more ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> my 2 cents :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - André +</I> + +i like speculative +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001606.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001608.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1607">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1607">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1607">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1607">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001608.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001608.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..975831008 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001608.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012051959.45511.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001607.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001611.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Maarten Vanraes</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012051959.45511.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 19:59:45 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001607.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001611.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1608">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1608">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1608">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1608">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Op zaterdag 04 december 2010 20:58:12 schreef Erin Wilkins: +><i> On December 4, 2010 10:06:37 Anssi Hannula wrote: +</I>><i> > On 03.12.2010 11:45, Ahmad Samir wrote: +</I>><i> > > On 2 December 2010 18:43, Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> > >> Le jeudi 02 décembre 2010 à 16:26 +0100, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit : +</I>><i> > >>> 2010/12/2 Anssi Hannula <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">anssi.hannula at iki.fi</A>>: +</I>><i> > >>>> For the record, I'm not a big fan of "tainted" name (too negative), +</I>><i> > >>>> but I can't think of anything better either, so... :) +</I>><i> > >>> +</I>><i> > >>> I agree, as "restricted" may be misleading former Mandriva users, why +</I>><i> > >>> not "special" or "extra"? +</I>><i> > >>> +</I>><i> > >>> I know there is the name "extra" for some other branch but it may be +</I>><i> > >>> easier to find another name for that one. +</I>><i> > >> +</I>><i> > >> That would be misleading to the content of the directory. +</I>><i> > >> +</I>><i> > >> What about "limited" ? +</I>><i> > >> "restrained" ? +</I>><i> > >> ( restrain, to deprive of liberty , seems like the perfect match ) +</I>><i> > >> +</I>><i> > >> +</I>><i> > >> -- +</I>><i> > >> Michael Scherer +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > limited and restrained don't sound right as they don't fully convey +</I>><i> > > the purpose/filtering-rule for packages in that repo.... +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Indeed. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Wolfgang's "foggy" sounds nice, but I think I prefer "tainted" anyway. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Since the packages in that repository are there because they're +</I>><i> (potentially) encumbered by patents, why not call it for what it is, +</I>><i> "encumbered"? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Erin +</I> + +too difficult +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001607.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001611.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1608">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1608">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1608">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1608">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001609.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001609.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..28f3b817e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001609.html @@ -0,0 +1,169 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4CFBEA8F.1060404%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001605.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001610.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Anssi Hannula</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4CFBEA8F.1060404%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">anssi.hannula at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 20:39:59 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001605.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001610.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1609">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1609">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1609">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1609">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 05.12.2010 19:36, Daniel Kreuter wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:32 PM, andre999 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A> +</I>><i> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>>> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Dale Huckeby a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010, andre999 wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> John a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:28:26 +0100 +</I>><i> Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Op vrijdag 03 december 2010 10:45:05 schreef Ahmad +</I>><i> Samir: +</I>><i> [...] +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The kernel uses the word "tainted" when it +</I>><i> detects the nvidia +</I>><i> proprietary module for example, (which +</I>><i> admittedly gave me a bit of +</I>><i> shock the first time I saw it :)). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Heh, i had the same reaction. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >From all the proposed names, I think "tainted" +</I>><i> is the best one, as the +</I>><i> +</I>><i> packages in there are in a "grey" zone, i.e. not +</I>><i> totally illegal +</I>><i> everywhere, but illegal only in some places in +</I>><i> the world. And in +</I>><i> reality the existence of a patent doesn't +</I>><i> necessarily mean it's +</I>><i> enforceable in a court of law (the only way we'd +</I>><i> know for sure is if +</I>><i> someone actually does try to sue)... my 0.02€ +</I>><i> worth :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Generally only potentially "illegal" in some countries. +</I>><i> "Tainted" means contaminated, polluted. A lot stronger than +</I>><i> potentially "illegal". (Really only actionable in a civil +</I>><i> sense, not +</I>><i> criminally illegal, as well.) +</I>><i> A package could end up there due to an apparently credible +</I>><i> rumour, +</I>><i> later discredited. (Anyone remember SCO ?) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I agree. Problematic comes closer to "potentially illegal", so I +</I>><i> looked +</I>><i> up some synonyms: ambiguous, debatable, dubious, +</I>><i> iffy, suspect, speculative, precarious, suspicious, uncertain, +</I>><i> unsettled, in addition to problematic itself. Personally +</I>><i> I like iffy, which is both short and to the point, but I think +</I>><i> several +</I>><i> of these would do. WDYT? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Dale Huckeby +</I>><i> +</I>><i> A much better set of choices. +</I>><i> (Thanks for looking these up. Good idea.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Let's remember that the question for these packages is not the +</I>><i> quality of their functioning - but rather the advisability to use +</I>><i> them, for other reasons, in some countries. +</I>><i> So I think that it is better to avoid words that could question the +</I>><i> QUALITY of the packages. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Words in the list like +</I>><i> ambiguous, debatable, problematic, and speculative +</I>><i> avoid questioning the quality ... but could be too long or too formal. +</I>><i> Or just not catchy enough ;) +</I>><i> ("Iffy" might be ok - certainly catchy enough.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Additional words I found in Roget's thesaurus, along the same lines : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Associated more with debatable : +</I>><i> arguable, contestable, controvertible, disputable, questionable, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Associated more with controversial : +</I>><i> confutable, deniable, mistakable, moot +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Of these additional words, I think that "contestable", "disputable", +</I>><i> and "controversial" are probably closest to the SENSE of the +</I>><i> repositories. +</I>><i> But maybe too formal ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Many of these words could be good choices. +</I>><i> And maybe someone will come up with some more ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> my 2 cents :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - André +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What about: main, free, non-free? +</I>><i> In main is everything what belongs to the core, free contains only +</I>><i> packages which are under a free license and in non-free are those which +</I>><i> aren't clear if free or not (what you mentioned earlier in this discussion). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> All three names are as clear as possible what's meant. +</I> +The license of the packages is not in question (they are free), the +patent (etc) situation is. + +-- +Anssi Hannula +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001605.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001610.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1609">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1609">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1609">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1609">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001610.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001610.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..fef243a8a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001610.html @@ -0,0 +1,186 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimKSaY2%2B%3DPS1eOBhbECjgaD_h024oFev5gi4vqG%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001609.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001612.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Daniel Kreuter</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimKSaY2%2B%3DPS1eOBhbECjgaD_h024oFev5gi4vqG%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">daniel.kreuter85 at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 20:47:34 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001609.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001612.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1610">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1610">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1610">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1610">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Anssi Hannula <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">anssi.hannula at iki.fi</A>> wrote: + +><i> On 05.12.2010 19:36, Daniel Kreuter wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:32 PM, andre999 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A> +</I>><i> > <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>>> wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Dale Huckeby a écrit : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > On Sat, 4 Dec 2010, andre999 wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > John a écrit : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:28:26 +0100 +</I>><i> > Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Op vrijdag 03 december 2010 10:45:05 schreef Ahmad +</I>><i> > Samir: +</I>><i> > [...] +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > The kernel uses the word "tainted" when it +</I>><i> > detects the nvidia +</I>><i> > proprietary module for example, (which +</I>><i> > admittedly gave me a bit of +</I>><i> > shock the first time I saw it :)). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Heh, i had the same reaction. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > >From all the proposed names, I think "tainted" +</I>><i> > is the best one, as the +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > packages in there are in a "grey" zone, i.e. not +</I>><i> > totally illegal +</I>><i> > everywhere, but illegal only in some places in +</I>><i> > the world. And in +</I>><i> > reality the existence of a patent doesn't +</I>><i> > necessarily mean it's +</I>><i> > enforceable in a court of law (the only way we'd +</I>><i> > know for sure is if +</I>><i> > someone actually does try to sue)... my 0.02€ +</I>><i> > worth :) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Generally only potentially "illegal" in some countries. +</I>><i> > "Tainted" means contaminated, polluted. A lot stronger than +</I>><i> > potentially "illegal". (Really only actionable in a civil +</I>><i> > sense, not +</I>><i> > criminally illegal, as well.) +</I>><i> > A package could end up there due to an apparently credible +</I>><i> > rumour, +</I>><i> > later discredited. (Anyone remember SCO ?) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I agree. Problematic comes closer to "potentially illegal", so I +</I>><i> > looked +</I>><i> > up some synonyms: ambiguous, debatable, dubious, +</I>><i> > iffy, suspect, speculative, precarious, suspicious, uncertain, +</I>><i> > unsettled, in addition to problematic itself. Personally +</I>><i> > I like iffy, which is both short and to the point, but I think +</I>><i> > several +</I>><i> > of these would do. WDYT? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Dale Huckeby +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > A much better set of choices. +</I>><i> > (Thanks for looking these up. Good idea.) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Let's remember that the question for these packages is not the +</I>><i> > quality of their functioning - but rather the advisability to use +</I>><i> > them, for other reasons, in some countries. +</I>><i> > So I think that it is better to avoid words that could question the +</I>><i> > QUALITY of the packages. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Words in the list like +</I>><i> > ambiguous, debatable, problematic, and speculative +</I>><i> > avoid questioning the quality ... but could be too long or too +</I>><i> formal. +</I>><i> > Or just not catchy enough ;) +</I>><i> > ("Iffy" might be ok - certainly catchy enough.) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Additional words I found in Roget's thesaurus, along the same lines : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Associated more with debatable : +</I>><i> > arguable, contestable, controvertible, disputable, questionable, +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Associated more with controversial : +</I>><i> > confutable, deniable, mistakable, moot +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Of these additional words, I think that "contestable", "disputable", +</I>><i> > and "controversial" are probably closest to the SENSE of the +</I>><i> > repositories. +</I>><i> > But maybe too formal ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Many of these words could be good choices. +</I>><i> > And maybe someone will come up with some more ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > my 2 cents :) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > - André +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > What about: main, free, non-free? +</I>><i> > In main is everything what belongs to the core, free contains only +</I>><i> > packages which are under a free license and in non-free are those which +</I>><i> > aren't clear if free or not (what you mentioned earlier in this +</I>><i> discussion). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > All three names are as clear as possible what's meant. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The license of the packages is not in question (they are free), the +</I>><i> patent (etc) situation is. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Anssi Hannula +</I>><i> +</I> +That's what i ment. + +-- +Mit freundlichen Grüßen + +Greetings + +Daniel Kreuter +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20101205/9d87f2aa/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001609.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001612.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1610">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1610">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1610">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1610">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001611.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001611.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a254375ee --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001611.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikLNPxN9q0wEKsa2rV7Vsg_9UiBvdAM9bWvnYKM%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001608.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001615.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Hoyt Duff</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikLNPxN9q0wEKsa2rV7Vsg_9UiBvdAM9bWvnYKM%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">hoytduff at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 20:49:55 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001608.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001615.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1611">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1611">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1611">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1611">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Maarten Vanraes +<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com</A>> wrote: + +>><i> Since the packages in that repository are there because they're +</I>>><i> (potentially) encumbered by patents, why not call it for what it is, +</I>>><i> "encumbered"? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> -- +</I>>><i> Erin +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> too difficult +</I>><i> +</I> +I suppose that's why nobody liked "supernumerary". 8) + +How about "segregated"? Oh, wait ... + +The problem is that in all languages, words that mean "not part of the +group", "not one of us" or "not like us" all have negative +connotations for cultural reasons. + +Perhaps we need an unrelated word that has meaning to Mageia, but +infers uniqueness without being pejorative. + +I suggest calling it the "paris" repository, a place for unique and +useful applications that cannot be placed in any other repository for +whatever reason. Then perhaps any local repository of one-off packages +could always be labeled "paris-local" by default. + +-- +Hoyt +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001608.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001615.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1611">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1611">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1611">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1611">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001612.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001612.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..37181dc3d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001612.html @@ -0,0 +1,198 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4CFBF700.9010903%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001610.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001613.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Anssi Hannula</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4CFBF700.9010903%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">anssi.hannula at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 21:33:04 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001610.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001613.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1612">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1612">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1612">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1612">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 05.12.2010 21:47, Daniel Kreuter wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Anssi Hannula <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">anssi.hannula at iki.fi</A> +</I>><i> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">anssi.hannula at iki.fi</A>>> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On 05.12.2010 19:36, Daniel Kreuter wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:32 PM, andre999 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A> +</I>><i> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>> +</I>><i> > <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>>>> wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Dale Huckeby a écrit : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > On Sat, 4 Dec 2010, andre999 wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > John a écrit : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:28:26 +0100 +</I>><i> > Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Op vrijdag 03 december 2010 10:45:05 schreef Ahmad +</I>><i> > Samir: +</I>><i> > [...] +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > The kernel uses the word "tainted" when it +</I>><i> > detects the nvidia +</I>><i> > proprietary module for example, (which +</I>><i> > admittedly gave me a bit of +</I>><i> > shock the first time I saw it :)). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Heh, i had the same reaction. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > >From all the proposed names, I think +</I>><i> "tainted" +</I>><i> > is the best one, as the +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > packages in there are in a "grey" zone, +</I>><i> i.e. not +</I>><i> > totally illegal +</I>><i> > everywhere, but illegal only in some places in +</I>><i> > the world. And in +</I>><i> > reality the existence of a patent doesn't +</I>><i> > necessarily mean it's +</I>><i> > enforceable in a court of law (the only +</I>><i> way we'd +</I>><i> > know for sure is if +</I>><i> > someone actually does try to sue)... my 0.02€ +</I>><i> > worth :) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Generally only potentially "illegal" in some countries. +</I>><i> > "Tainted" means contaminated, polluted. A lot stronger +</I>><i> than +</I>><i> > potentially "illegal". (Really only actionable in a civil +</I>><i> > sense, not +</I>><i> > criminally illegal, as well.) +</I>><i> > A package could end up there due to an apparently credible +</I>><i> > rumour, +</I>><i> > later discredited. (Anyone remember SCO ?) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I agree. Problematic comes closer to "potentially +</I>><i> illegal", so I +</I>><i> > looked +</I>><i> > up some synonyms: ambiguous, debatable, dubious, +</I>><i> > iffy, suspect, speculative, precarious, suspicious, uncertain, +</I>><i> > unsettled, in addition to problematic itself. Personally +</I>><i> > I like iffy, which is both short and to the point, but I think +</I>><i> > several +</I>><i> > of these would do. WDYT? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Dale Huckeby +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > A much better set of choices. +</I>><i> > (Thanks for looking these up. Good idea.) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Let's remember that the question for these packages is not the +</I>><i> > quality of their functioning - but rather the advisability to use +</I>><i> > them, for other reasons, in some countries. +</I>><i> > So I think that it is better to avoid words that could +</I>><i> question the +</I>><i> > QUALITY of the packages. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Words in the list like +</I>><i> > ambiguous, debatable, problematic, and speculative +</I>><i> > avoid questioning the quality ... but could be too long or too +</I>><i> formal. +</I>><i> > Or just not catchy enough ;) +</I>><i> > ("Iffy" might be ok - certainly catchy enough.) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Additional words I found in Roget's thesaurus, along the same +</I>><i> lines : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Associated more with debatable : +</I>><i> > arguable, contestable, controvertible, disputable, questionable, +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Associated more with controversial : +</I>><i> > confutable, deniable, mistakable, moot +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Of these additional words, I think that "contestable", +</I>><i> "disputable", +</I>><i> > and "controversial" are probably closest to the SENSE of the +</I>><i> > repositories. +</I>><i> > But maybe too formal ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Many of these words could be good choices. +</I>><i> > And maybe someone will come up with some more ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > my 2 cents :) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > - André +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > What about: main, free, non-free? +</I>><i> > In main is everything what belongs to the core, free contains only +</I>><i> > packages which are under a free license and in non-free are those +</I>><i> which +</I>><i> > aren't clear if free or not (what you mentioned earlier in this +</I>><i> discussion). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > All three names are as clear as possible what's meant. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The license of the packages is not in question (they are free), the +</I>><i> patent (etc) situation is. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Anssi Hannula +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That's what i ment. +</I> +I don't understand. So, where would you put e.g. patent-encumbered +packages of free software, then? If to "free", that runs counter to the +desire to having them in a separate repository. If to "nonfree", that +would simply be wrong as they are not nonfree. + +-- +Anssi Hannula +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001610.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001613.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1612">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1612">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1612">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1612">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001613.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001613.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3c3e9f5fe --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001613.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimtQm5BpQ42PWy%2ByHq73wmuws33Y9%2BpwQVDmii6%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001612.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001606.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimtQm5BpQ42PWy%2ByHq73wmuws33Y9%2BpwQVDmii6%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 21:46:21 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001612.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001606.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1613">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1613">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1613">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1613">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Giving names we have to keep the structure in mind which was +"developped" during this thread. + +Now we are talking about a name for that repo which never existed in +Mandriva, so Mandriva never had to worry about the correct naming. How +about abbreviations? + +Thinking of PLF, "MLF" comes to mind but that abbreviation has another +well-known meaning. :) "pisc" (patented in some countries) is another +no-go because of various resons in different languages. + +But here's one which could work: "tbp" (tainted by patents). + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001612.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001606.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1613">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1613">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1613">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1613">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001614.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001614.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..52687ed3e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001614.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012051250.00486.erin%40sea-dragon.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001615.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001616.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Erin Wilkins</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012051250.00486.erin%40sea-dragon.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">erin at sea-dragon.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 21:50:00 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001615.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001616.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1614">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1614">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1614">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1614">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On December 5, 2010 10:59:45 Maarten Vanraes wrote: +><i> Op zaterdag 04 december 2010 20:58:12 schreef Erin Wilkins: +</I>><i> > Since the packages in that repository are there because they're +</I>><i> > (potentially) encumbered by patents, why not call it for what it is, +</I>><i> > "encumbered"? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > -- +</I>><i> > Erin +</I>><i> +</I>><i> too difficult +</I> +To understand? If that's the case, I think you're going to be stuck with +"tainted". And while I don't have an issue with it, this whole discussion +started because some people find it too negative. + +The purpose of the repository name is to convey what sort of packages are +contained in it. While many of the names that have been mentioned (foggy, +speculative, etc) are relatively easy to remember, they don't have any +existing meanings with regard to software. If I, or pretty much any other +user, were not following this thread, I would not understand what sort of +packages would be in a repository with those names. And like any other name +that I wouldn't understand, I'd have to look up the documentation. + +I don't know about you, but I'd rather go with a name that conveys an existing +meaning, but some people will need to look at the documentation to understand. + +-- +Erin +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001615.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001616.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1614">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1614">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1614">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1614">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001615.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001615.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d96915d15 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001615.html @@ -0,0 +1,88 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012052212.20751.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001611.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001614.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Maarten Vanraes</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012052212.20751.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 22:12:20 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001611.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001614.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1615">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1615">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1615">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1615">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Op zondag 05 december 2010 20:49:55 schreef Hoyt Duff: +><i> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Maarten Vanraes +</I>><i> +</I>><i> <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> >> Since the packages in that repository are there because they're +</I>><i> >> (potentially) encumbered by patents, why not call it for what it is, +</I>><i> >> "encumbered"? +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> -- +</I>><i> >> Erin +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > too difficult +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I suppose that's why nobody liked "supernumerary". 8) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> How about "segregated"? Oh, wait ... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The problem is that in all languages, words that mean "not part of the +</I>><i> group", "not one of us" or "not like us" all have negative +</I>><i> connotations for cultural reasons. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Perhaps we need an unrelated word that has meaning to Mageia, but +</I>><i> infers uniqueness without being pejorative. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I suggest calling it the "paris" repository, a place for unique and +</I>><i> useful applications that cannot be placed in any other repository for +</I>><i> whatever reason. Then perhaps any local repository of one-off packages +</I>><i> could always be labeled "paris-local" by default. +</I> +after Paris Hilton? "a place for unique and useful applications that cannot be +placed in any other repository for whatever reason" + +sounds like a good comparison... +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001611.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001614.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1615">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1615">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1615">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1615">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001616.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001616.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3461fc2b3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/001616.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012052219.21772.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001614.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Maarten Vanraes</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201012052219.21772.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 5 22:19:21 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001614.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1616">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1616">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1616">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1616">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Op zondag 05 december 2010 21:50:00 schreef Erin Wilkins: +><i> On December 5, 2010 10:59:45 Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> > Op zaterdag 04 december 2010 20:58:12 schreef Erin Wilkins: +</I>><i> > > Since the packages in that repository are there because they're +</I>><i> > > (potentially) encumbered by patents, why not call it for what it is, +</I>><i> > > "encumbered"? +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > -- +</I>><i> > > Erin +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > too difficult +</I>><i> +</I>><i> To understand? If that's the case, I think you're going to be stuck with +</I>><i> "tainted". And while I don't have an issue with it, this whole discussion +</I>><i> started because some people find it too negative. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The purpose of the repository name is to convey what sort of packages are +</I>><i> contained in it. While many of the names that have been mentioned (foggy, +</I>><i> speculative, etc) are relatively easy to remember, they don't have any +</I>><i> existing meanings with regard to software. If I, or pretty much any other +</I>><i> user, were not following this thread, I would not understand what sort of +</I>><i> packages would be in a repository with those names. And like any other name +</I>><i> that I wouldn't understand, I'd have to look up the documentation. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't know about you, but I'd rather go with a name that conveys an +</I>><i> existing meaning, but some people will need to look at the documentation +</I>><i> to understand. +</I> +I understand your point. however, Mageia is international and i think a high +group of international no-native-english-speakers will have a hard time finding +out what this is about... + +the english language is pretty rich; and i suspect there are quite a few words +that could convey the correct meaning without the word being too difficult. + +otoh, there is also the fact that "free" or "core" don't really convey the +correct meaning at all either and could be quite dubious. + +patented would be more correct, but i don't wanna call it that, because then +mageia would be sued by patent-lawyers all over the world. don't get me wrong, +it wouldn't be illegal, but it would just be too timeconsuming... + +imho, we should have a simple not too difficult word that somehow shows a bit +about the nature of the contents in it, while still being vague enough. +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001614.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1616">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1616">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1616">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1616">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..18e2af0e3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,112 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 5 December 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>5 December 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 12:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:21 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 13<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001613.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1613"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001611.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1611"> </A> +<I>Hoyt Duff +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001609.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1609"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001612.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1612"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001605.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1605"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001610.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1610"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001606.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1606"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001607.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1607"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001608.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1608"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001615.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1615"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001616.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1616"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001614.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1614"> </A> +<I>Erin Wilkins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001604.html">[Mageia-dev] Support policy +</A><A NAME="1604"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:21 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:28 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..26f5af107 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,112 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 5 December 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>5 December 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 12:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:21 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 13<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001604.html">[Mageia-dev] Support policy +</A><A NAME="1604"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001605.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1605"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001606.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1606"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001607.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1607"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001608.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1608"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001609.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1609"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001610.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1610"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001611.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1611"> </A> +<I>Hoyt Duff +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001612.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1612"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001613.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1613"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001614.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1614"> </A> +<I>Erin Wilkins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001615.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1615"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001616.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1616"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:21 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:28 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1bdbe67db --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,112 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 5 December 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>5 December 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 12:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:21 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 13<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001605.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1605"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001606.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1606"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001607.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1607"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001608.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1608"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001609.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1609"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001610.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1610"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001611.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1611"> </A> +<I>Hoyt Duff +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001612.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1612"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001613.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1613"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001614.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1614"> </A> +<I>Erin Wilkins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001615.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1615"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001616.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1616"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001604.html">[Mageia-dev] Support policy +</A><A NAME="1604"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:21 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:28 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d4a0d1c59 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101205/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 5 December 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>5 December 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 12:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:21 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 13<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01291548290- --> +<LI><A HREF="001604.html">[Mageia-dev] Support policy +</A><A NAME="1604"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<!--0 01291570596- --> +<LI><A HREF="001605.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1605"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01291570596-01291577999- --> +<LI><A HREF="001609.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1609"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01291570596-01291577999-01291578454- --> +<LI><A HREF="001610.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1610"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01291570596-01291577999-01291578454-01291581184- --> +<LI><A HREF="001612.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1612"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<!--3 01291570596-01291577999-01291578454-01291581184-01291581981- --> +<LI><A HREF="001613.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1613"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01291575435- --> +<LI><A HREF="001606.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1606"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<!--0 01291575559- --> +<LI><A HREF="001607.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1607"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<!--0 01291575585- --> +<LI><A HREF="001608.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1608"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01291575585-01291578595- --> +<LI><A HREF="001611.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1611"> </A> +<I>Hoyt Duff +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01291575585-01291578595-01291583540- --> +<LI><A HREF="001615.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1615"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +</UL> +<!--1 01291575585-01291582200- --> +<LI><A HREF="001614.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1614"> </A> +<I>Erin Wilkins +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01291575585-01291582200-01291583961- --> +<LI><A HREF="001616.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1616"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:21 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Dec 5 22:19:28 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |