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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002372.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002372.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6231afdae --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002372.html @@ -0,0 +1,131 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010141218.05477.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002373.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Graham Lauder</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010141218.05477.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">yorick_ at openoffice.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 01:18:05 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002373.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2372">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2372">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2372">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2372">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 06:39:32 Wolfgang Bornath wrote: +><i> 2010/10/13 Marc Paré <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>>: +</I>><i> > I think Graham is trying to voice (I agree with him at this point) is +</I>><i> > that the marketing/communications committee is working through steps +</I>><i> > that lead to branding suggestions. We are almost done with the +</I>><i> > groundwork and holding off a bit would help us in completing and +</I>><i> > presenting our suggestions. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As I wrote I do agree as well. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > This is not a case of branding a targeted group at this point but the +</I>><i> > overall flavour of the Mageia brand. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Uh, sorry, I thought he wrote "identifying target markets", may be I +</I>><i> did not read it right? I am not talking about the time when this will +</I>><i> be done but rather voice another warning about being too restrictive +</I>><i> while doing that "indentifying target markets", whenever that will be. +</I>><i> I still remember the previous discussion about such restrictive +</I>><i> targets as "young couples" and the like, basing the procedure on +</I>><i> demographic statistics of certain parts of the world. +</I> + +Ack and I swore I wasn't going to get into this discussion again because it's +like talking to a brick wall and actually you proved my point about target +markets by suggesting the vast and incalculable differences between Germany +and the rest of the OECD. + +However, you still stubbornly hold to the view that somehow, by a piece of +grand magic that nobody else in the business world has ever managed to do, +unless they are a monopoly, we can come up with something that suits everyone +in the world of all ages. Tell us what that secret is because you'll be able +to sell it for millions. Usually the people who say this are in reality saying +"Everybody in MY demographic" + +The reality is: We are going into a saturated market, there are hundreds of +distros out there, the successful ones have identified their target markets +and branded to that market, The major competitor works effectively in a +Monopolistic atmosphere while still spending $US500 million annually on +marketing and you think they don't target markets! + +We have been working on publishing the Core Values over the past week or so, +that immediately defines a market in and of itself. + +The families market suggestion was one that came to me because of personal +experience in my business in that my most successful instances of selling +linux have (after studying results) been in a family environment where the +small network support model was functioning. + +Now in my market then the target would be the Mothers, in Germany, according +to your analysis, the Fathers, in each of these markets the upshot of success +is 2.4 users, or possibly more if you count 3 generations (Or whatever your +average family size wherever you are) and an instant local support network +(MS's greatest strength). + +The point is the suggestion was made giving due consideration to a pile of +factors including maintaining user base, aka: Brand Loyalty (Kevin Roberts, of +Saatchis calls 'Building Love Brands' and he often cites Apple as an +example). + +Now does that mean we are restricting the market, of course not. Apple's +target is young, high disposable income, singles. To me that's obvious and I +could prove that, but I was told that "Apple Targets everyone" ???? naturally +by someone in that demographic. + +Marketing is not witchcraft or voodoo, it's a science and an art form. + +We need to get on with it and no matter what there is an absolute given: + +"You cannot please all of the people all of the time" + + +Really, at this point we have a lot of work to do before we define or even +identify our target market. When we get to that point any realistic positive +alternatives will be well received. + +Cheers +GL +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002373.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2372">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2372">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2372">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2372">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002373.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002373.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..01174750f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002373.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C461.4cb65a49%40mageia.linuxtech.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002372.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002374.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C461.4cb65a49%40mageia.linuxtech.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 03:18:02 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002372.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002374.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2373">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2373">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2373">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2373">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> + +I'm with wobo and Margot here, I fear this 'targeting' will simply result +in restricting our potential user-base (i.e. rather than attracting more +users it will turn off many users). + +-- +Mageia ML Forum Gateway: <A HREF="http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/">http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/</A> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002372.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002374.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2373">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2373">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2373">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2373">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002374.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002374.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..046026a99 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002374.html @@ -0,0 +1,126 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010141537.29447.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002373.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002375.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Graham Lauder</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010141537.29447.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">yorick_ at openoffice.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 04:37:29 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002373.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002375.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2374">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2374">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2374">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2374">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 14:18:02 Tux99 wrote: +><i> I'm with wobo and Margot here, I fear this 'targeting' will simply result +</I>><i> in restricting our potential user-base (i.e. rather than attracting more +</I>><i> users it will turn off many users). +</I> +It is a well known fact, that you cannot be all things to all people, to try +to do that would end up being everything to noone. I would prefer to be the +best we can be to those who grow to love the brand. + +All linux distributions at the moment have a less than 1.5% of the total +market, however in the area where they have targeted a particular user set, +Webservers, the market penetration is somewhere around the 65% mark. + +That's the difference. In these days of online build services there is +arguably no reason that we could not create different package sets on +different media for different markets and completely different branding for +each set. + +How many users does Mandriva have worldwide, compare that to the number of +computer users and you will see that the "one size fits all" does not equal +significant market share. + +OpenOffice.org user base is estimated to be around 100 million, the vast +majority (around 90%) on an MS platform even though linux distros get it by +default. OOo is targeted at office productivity people for obvious reasons, +it's branding, colour design (Blue engenders a feeling of reliability and +efficiency) is aimed at that market group. The Logo design is aimed at a 30 +to 45 age group, who are the decision makers in this group and to whom "Gulls" += Freedom. + +As far as we can tell, OOo out performs MSO 2003, 2007 and 2010 combined +outside of educational institutions, but still is nowhere near the combined +user base of the MSO 97/2000/XP group. This penetration is down to marketing +on a shoestring, the OOo marketing project is the most active, marketing group +in the FOSS world other than RedHat, Ubuntu and Mozilla, most of whom are paid +and have a budget. + +We do not work on voodoo, we work on science with measurable results. I don't +dismiss your code as crap because I am not a hacker. Don't dismiss what I say +as nonsense without logical and reasoned argument to back it up. Your +"feelings" don't count as a logical counter argument. + +I don't "fear", I _know_ from experience and research that a "One Size Fits +All" Product and marketing campaign will go nowhere. + +As an addendum to that I would ask the question, The Zero to dead, male and +female market group, and I presume all nationalities and all religions and all +social groupings and all job types and all locations and localities, young, +old teenaged and middleaged, technologically educated and illiterate. How +would you present Mageia to all these vastly different groups of people? + +Wouldn't it be more sensible to say: "This group of people could materially +benefit from using Mageia as their preferred Technology platform, let's +communicate with them in a way that they can relate to." + +That is the argument for the Affirmative Mr Interlocutor. :) + +Cheers +GL + +-- +Graham Lauder, +OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ +<A HREF="http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html">http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html</A> + +OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant. + +INGOTs Moderator New Zealand +www.theingots.org.nz + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002373.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002375.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2374">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2374">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2374">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2374">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002375.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002375.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2ca7d7c18 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002375.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010140500250.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002374.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002376.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010140500250.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 05:16:39 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002374.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002376.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2375">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2375">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2375">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2375">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Graham Lauder wrote: + +><i> It is a well known fact, that you cannot be all things to all people, to try +</I>><i> to do that would end up being everything to noone. I would prefer to be the +</I>><i> best we can be to those who grow to love the brand. +</I> +True, but you are forgetting to take into account the views of the +developers and packagers of Mageia. Without them there will be no Mageia +distro and since partecipation is on an unpaid volunteer basis, no +grand plan of shaping the distro from a marketing POV will succeed, if +it doesn't match the views of a large part of the devs and packagers. + +This is not a criticism of your work (which I'm sure is well meant), but +it's a simple but crucial fact that you have to take into account. + +><i> All linux distributions at the moment have a less than 1.5% of the total +</I>><i> market, however in the area where they have targeted a particular user set, +</I>><i> Webservers, the market penetration is somewhere around the 65% mark. +</I> +And that's because of the simple fact that Linux is the best technical +choice for that specific application and the decisionmakers are techies +who know that, it has nothing to do with marketing. +If anything it shows how marketing counts for nothing when techies and +experts make choices. + +><i> How many users does Mandriva have worldwide, compare that to the number of +</I>><i> computer users and you will see that the "one size fits all" does not equal +</I>><i> significant market share. +</I> +Mandriva is not a "one size fits all". It is the best Linux desktop +distro, but it's not the best choice as a server distro or for many +other uses. +The fact that it doesn't have more users is primarily due to the unfair +advantage that Windows has because it comes preinstalled on PCs. + +><i> OOo is targeted at office productivity people for obvious reasons, +</I>><i> it's branding, colour design (Blue engenders a feeling of reliability and +</I>><i> efficiency) is aimed at that market group. The Logo design is aimed at a 30 +</I>><i> to 45 age group, who are the decision makers in this group and to whom "Gulls" +</I>><i> = Freedom. +</I> +I very much doubt any OOo user chose it because of the logo, personally +I chose software on technical and usability merits, not logo design and +even all non-techies I know do the same. + +Software is not a car or a handbag or a jacket, those are items where +looks and design counts a lot, with software the only design that counts +is UI interface design aimed at maximising usability. + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002374.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002376.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2375">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2375">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2375">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2375">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002376.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002376.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..fa03f04a2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002376.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C464.4cb67ffe%40mageia.linuxtech.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002375.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002377.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C464.4cb67ffe%40mageia.linuxtech.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 05:58:55 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002375.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002377.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2376">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2376">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2376">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2376">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> + +><i> Wouldn't it be more sensible to say: "This group of people could +</I>><i> materially +</I>><i> benefit from using Mageia as their preferred Technology platform, +</I>><i> let's +</I>><i> communicate with them in a way that they can relate to." +</I> +Actually I strongly agree with this statement, but I didn't get the +impression that everything else you said is in any way coherent with this, +on the contrary the suggested target groups I have seen here so far seemed +way off base to me. + +With a community Linux distro like Mageia it's the technical merits and +specs of the distro that define it's target user group, not the wishes of +the marketeers. + +-- +Mageia ML Forum Gateway: <A HREF="http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/">http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/</A> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002375.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002377.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2376">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2376">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2376">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2376">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002377.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002377.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..74d85a489 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002377.html @@ -0,0 +1,168 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010141724.39074.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002376.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002378.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Graham Lauder</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010141724.39074.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">yorick_ at openoffice.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 06:24:39 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002376.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002378.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2377">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2377">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2377">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2377">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 16:16:39 Tux99 wrote: +><i> On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Graham Lauder wrote: +</I>><i> > It is a well known fact, that you cannot be all things to all people, to +</I>><i> > try to do that would end up being everything to noone. I would prefer +</I>><i> > to be the best we can be to those who grow to love the brand. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> True, but you are forgetting to take into account the views of the +</I>><i> developers and packagers of Mageia. Without them there will be no Mageia +</I>><i> distro and since partecipation is on an unpaid volunteer basis, no +</I>><i> grand plan of shaping the distro from a marketing POV will succeed, if +</I>><i> it doesn't match the views of a large part of the devs and packagers. +</I> +What has that got to do with it, there is always an internal component to the +marketing, goes without saying + +><i> +</I>><i> This is not a criticism of your work (which I'm sure is well meant), but +</I>><i> it's a simple but crucial fact that you have to take into account. +</I> +Damned by faint praise, and frankly I'm insulted, I suggest you read the Core +Values statement which is up on the website now I think and which I and my +team put together in deep consultation with the founders. + +><i> +</I>><i> > All linux distributions at the moment have a less than 1.5% of the total +</I>><i> > market, however in the area where they have targeted a particular user +</I>><i> > set, Webservers, the market penetration is somewhere around the 65% +</I>><i> > mark. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And that's because of the simple fact that Linux is the best technical +</I>><i> choice for that specific application and the decisionmakers are techies +</I>><i> who know that, it has nothing to do with marketing. +</I>><i> If anything it shows how marketing counts for nothing when techies and +</I>><i> experts make choices. +</I> +I'm really trying to be restrained here but I think you should talk to RedHat +and SuSE and so forth the companies that have driven most of that market and +ask them if the did no marketing. + +><i> +</I>><i> > How many users does Mandriva have worldwide, compare that to the number +</I>><i> > of computer users and you will see that the "one size fits all" does not +</I>><i> > equal significant market share. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Mandriva is not a "one size fits all". It is the best Linux desktop +</I>><i> distro, but it's not the best choice as a server distro or for many +</I>><i> other uses. +</I>><i> The fact that it doesn't have more users is primarily due to the unfair +</I>><i> advantage that Windows has because it comes preinstalled on PCs. +</I>><i> +</I> +That is in fact patently untrue, I remember when Mandrake was trumpeting the +fact that you could buy it preinstalled back about 9.0 I think, can't +remember. MS spends 500 million a year on marketing, just to maintain that +market share. + +><i> > OOo is targeted at office productivity people for obvious reasons, +</I>><i> > it's branding, colour design (Blue engenders a feeling of reliability +</I>><i> > and efficiency) is aimed at that market group. The Logo design is +</I>><i> > aimed at a 30 to 45 age group, who are the decision makers in this group +</I>><i> > and to whom "Gulls" = Freedom. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I very much doubt any OOo user chose it because of the logo, personally +</I>><i> I chose software on technical and usability merits, not logo design and +</I>><i> even all non-techies I know do the same. +</I> +Oh for crying out loud is there a virus around here that imbues density... OF +COURSE they didn't choose because of the Logo, ye gods if you so much as had +an inkling of the smallest piece of Marketing science you would see how +nonsensical that statement is in terms of what we are talking about, +especially when you say it as though you have a deep dark knowledge. I don't +really have time to do marketing 101 here and It's wasting my time when I +could be doing the more useful things that the Founders have asked us to do. + +However: +Marketing raises Brand awareness +It connects a value with the product in the Consumers mind +It connects a brand with people on an emotional level + +That's it, Getting people to use it is Sales which is a different beast +altogether. + +We get people to see the brand, connect with the brand and then think about +investigating it after that it's sales and engineering. + +><i> +</I>><i> Software is not a car or a handbag or a jacket, those are items where +</I>><i> looks and design counts a lot, with software the only design that counts +</I>><i> is UI interface design aimed at maximising usability. +</I> + +There is an old saying there are none so blind as those that will not see, and +it doesn't matter how good the UI is, if no-one looks at it, it's the same for +anything, you can make it as pretty and as usable as you want if nobody knows +the brand exists then the only ones that will connect are the ones that +stumble across it accidentally. + +Once more, this is wasting my time and there is no point in discussing this +with a closed mind and entrenched attitudes. + +GL + +-- +Graham Lauder, +OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ +<A HREF="http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html">http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html</A> + +OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant. + +INGOTs Moderator New Zealand +www.theingots.org.nz + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002376.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002378.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2377">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2377">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2377">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2377">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002378.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002378.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..fc2bbb455 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002378.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C468.4cb68899%40mageia.linuxtech.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002377.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002380.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C468.4cb68899%40mageia.linuxtech.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 06:35:38 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002377.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002380.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2378">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2378">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2378">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2378">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> + +Graham, I'm sorry if me expressing my views that differ from yours somehow +offended you, I had no intention of offending you. + +That said I don't think that your air of superiority that I notice in your +latest reply will help you get your message across to anyone. + + +-- +Mageia ML Forum Gateway: <A HREF="http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/">http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/</A> +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002377.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002380.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2378">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2378">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2378">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2378">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002379.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002379.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ebf295fa6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002379.html @@ -0,0 +1,131 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C4CB69763.3080303%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002383.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002384.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C4CB69763.3080303%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 07:38:43 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002383.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002384.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2379">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2379">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2379">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2379">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Graham Lauder skrev 14.10.2010 07:24: + > On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 16:16:39 Tux99 wrote: +[...] +><i> +</I>><i> Damned by faint praise, and frankly I'm insulted, I suggest you read the Core +</I>><i> Values statement which is up on the website now I think and which I and my +</I>><i> team put together in deep consultation with the founders. +</I> +[...] + +><i> especially when you say it as though you have a deep dark knowledge. I don't +</I>><i> really have time to do marketing 101 here and It's wasting my time when I +</I>><i> could be doing the more useful things that the Founders have asked us to do. +</I>><i> +</I> +Now this last comment does not at all follow the Values... +The "more useful things to do" approach is never a good argument... ever... + +><i> However: +</I>><i> Marketing raises Brand awareness +</I>><i> It connects a value with the product in the Consumers mind +</I>><i> It connects a brand with people on an emotional level +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That's it, Getting people to use it is Sales which is a different beast +</I>><i> altogether. +</I>><i> +</I> +True. + +><i> We get people to see the brand, connect with the brand and then think about +</I>><i> investigating it after that it's sales and engineering. +</I>><i> +</I> +But as one point already made, namely the "engineering part"... +It does not help if we get a brand, but no developers & testers that is +interested in it... + +>><i> +</I>>><i> Software is not a car or a handbag or a jacket, those are items where +</I>>><i> looks and design counts a lot, with software the only design that counts +</I>>><i> is UI interface design aimed at maximising usability. +</I>><i> +</I> +One thing that we must be careful about is the "maximising usability" +part, as it's easy to get it so "dumbed down" that it ends up +useless/annoying for many users... + +><i> +</I>><i> There is an old saying there are none so blind as those that will not see, and +</I>><i> it doesn't matter how good the UI is, if no-one looks at it, it's the same for +</I>><i> anything, you can make it as pretty and as usable as you want if nobody knows +</I>><i> the brand exists then the only ones that will connect are the ones that +</I>><i> stumble across it accidentally. +</I>><i> +</I> +True. + +><i> Once more, this is wasting my time and there is no point in discussing this +</I>><i> with a closed mind and entrenched attitudes. +</I>><i> +</I> +and the Values got hit again :( +please think before you write. + +And if you think of the last statement, the "closed mind" part goes both +ways. +Many things in this discussion does come out as "closed marketing mind" +vs "closed user/developer mind". + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002383.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002384.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2379">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2379">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2379">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2379">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002380.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002380.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5528f9173 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002380.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010141853.47449.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002378.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002381.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Graham Lauder</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010141853.47449.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">yorick_ at openoffice.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 07:53:47 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002378.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002381.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2380">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2380">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2380">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2380">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 17:35:38 Tux99 wrote: +><i> Graham, I'm sorry if me expressing my views that differ from yours somehow +</I>><i> offended you, I had no intention of offending you. +</I> +I quote your last post: + +><i> True, but you are forgetting to take into account the views of the +</I>><i> developers and packagers of Mageia. +</I> +I did not "forget" in fact made a substantial effort and got lots of feedback. +You basically said that I didn't do my job, where I come from, that's +insulting. + +><i> +</I>><i> That said I don't think that your air of superiority that I notice in your +</I>><i> latest reply will help you get your message across to anyone. +</I> +No air of superiority at all, in fact the reverse is true, in that you claimed +greater knowledge of my field than I and so I had to respond in kind and If I +made the similar unsupported comments about your code I daresay you would +respond in a similar frustrated vein. + +Cheers +GL + + +-- +Graham Lauder, +OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ +<A HREF="http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html">http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html</A> + +OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant. + +INGOTs Moderator New Zealand +www.theingots.org.nz + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002378.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002381.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2380">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2380">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2380">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2380">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002381.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002381.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ee8acd701 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002381.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010140758220.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002380.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002383.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010140758220.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 08:00:05 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002380.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002383.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2381">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2381">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2381">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2381">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Graham Lauder wrote: + +><i> On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 17:35:38 Tux99 wrote: +</I>><i> > Graham, I'm sorry if me expressing my views that differ from yours somehow +</I>><i> > offended you, I had no intention of offending you. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I quote your last post: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > True, but you are forgetting to take into account the views of the +</I>><i> > developers and packagers of Mageia. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I did not "forget" in fact made a substantial effort and got lots of feedback. +</I>><i> You basically said that I didn't do my job, where I come from, that's +</I>><i> insulting. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > That said I don't think that your air of superiority that I notice in your +</I>><i> > latest reply will help you get your message across to anyone. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No air of superiority at all, in fact the reverse is true, in that you claimed +</I>><i> greater knowledge of my field than I and so I had to respond in kind and If I +</I>><i> made the similar unsupported comments about your code I daresay you would +</I>><i> respond in a similar frustrated vein. +</I> + +Graham, as I said I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention. + +You are the expert so I leave you to it and shut up about this subject +now. + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002380.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002383.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2381">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2381">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2381">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2381">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002382.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002382.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4274d0c9c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002382.html @@ -0,0 +1,135 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C4CB6A74F.6090702%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002390.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002386.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C4CB6A74F.6090702%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 08:46:39 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002390.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002386.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2382">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2382">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2382">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2382">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Graham Lauder skrev 14.10.2010 05:37: + +><i> That's the difference. In these days of online build services there is +</I>><i> arguably no reason that we could not create different package sets on +</I>><i> different media for different markets and completely different branding for +</I>><i> each set. +</I> +oh but there is... + +developer base, testers, QA, Mirroring infra. + +simply rebuilding a package does not mean that it actually works. + +><i> +</I>><i> How many users does Mandriva have worldwide, compare that to the number of +</I>><i> computer users and you will see that the "one size fits all" does not equal +</I>><i> significant market share. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> OpenOffice.org user base is estimated to be around 100 million, the vast +</I>><i> majority (around 90%) on an MS platform even though linux distros get it by +</I>><i> default. OOo is targeted at office productivity people for obvious reasons, +</I>><i> it's branding, colour design (Blue engenders a feeling of reliability and +</I>><i> efficiency) is aimed at that market group. The Logo design is aimed at a 30 +</I>><i> to 45 age group, who are the decision makers in this group and to whom "Gulls" +</I>><i> = Freedom. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As far as we can tell, OOo out performs MSO 2003, 2007 and 2010 combined +</I>><i> outside of educational institutions, but still is nowhere near the combined +</I>><i> user base of the MSO 97/2000/XP group. This penetration is down to marketing +</I>><i> on a shoestring, the OOo marketing project is the most active, marketing group +</I>><i> in the FOSS world other than RedHat, Ubuntu and Mozilla, most of whom are paid +</I>><i> and have a budget. +</I>><i> +</I> +Ignoring the Linux userbase for now, OpenOffice usage on MS side is +chosen on three merits: + +1. its free (economy) +2. it works as intended (need) +3. its open source (ideology) + +And the two first ones are the biggest reason obviously. + +><i> We do not work on voodoo, we work on science with measurable results. I don't +</I>><i> dismiss your code as crap because I am not a hacker. Don't dismiss what I say +</I>><i> as nonsense without logical and reasoned argument to back it up. Your +</I>><i> "feelings" don't count as a logical counter argument. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't "fear", I _know_ from experience and research that a "One Size Fits +</I>><i> All" Product and marketing campaign will go nowhere. +</I> +Yeah, we can never please all, thats true, but we must also be careful +to not be "too narrow" as it also "kills" the product + +><i> As an addendum to that I would ask the question, The Zero to dead, male and +</I>><i> female market group, and I presume all nationalities and all religions and all +</I>><i> social groupings and all job types and all locations and localities, young, +</I>><i> old teenaged and middleaged, technologically educated and illiterate. How +</I>><i> would you present Mageia to all these vastly different groups of people? +</I>><i> +</I> +Its Linux! Anything anywhere! Whatever you need, we got it! :) + +><i> Wouldn't it be more sensible to say: "This group of people could materially +</I>><i> benefit from using Mageia as their preferred Technology platform, let's +</I>><i> communicate with them in a way that they can relate to." +</I>><i> +</I> +Yep. as long as it's not driven to a point where we offend/repel parts +of the community. + +Remember, Mageia _is_ a Community distribution. + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002390.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002386.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2382">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2382">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2382">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2382">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002383.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002383.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4459d89dd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002383.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinuPyBFdYLJ39E0PovzAAu12svfr5Y81%2BMHAMzJ%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002381.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002379.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinuPyBFdYLJ39E0PovzAAu12svfr5Y81%2BMHAMzJ%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 09:08:45 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002381.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002379.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2383">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2383">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2383">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2383">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/10/14 Tux99 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">tux99-mga at uridium.org</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> Graham, as I said I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You are the expert so I leave you to it and shut up about this subject +</I>><i> now. +</I> +I must admit I am not as polite as Tux99. I say it open and in clear +words: sorry, Graham, I am really annoyed by your attitude. +I don't need discussions this style. I am not used to be seen as a +"brick wall" with a stubborn mind just because I am giving my opinion +and my very long experience. + +So I will follow Tux99 and shut up about this subject. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002381.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002379.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2383">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2383">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2383">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2383">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002384.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002384.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..16cd009fa --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002384.html @@ -0,0 +1,178 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010142011.27824.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002379.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002385.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Graham Lauder</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010142011.27824.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">yorick_ at openoffice.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 09:11:27 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002379.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002385.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2384">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2384">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2384">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2384">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 18:38:43 Thomas Backlund wrote: +><i> Graham Lauder skrev 14.10.2010 07:24: +</I>><i> > On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 16:16:39 Tux99 wrote: +</I>><i> [...] +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Damned by faint praise, and frankly I'm insulted, I suggest you read the +</I>><i> > Core Values statement which is up on the website now I think and which I +</I>><i> > and my team put together in deep consultation with the founders. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> [...] +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > especially when you say it as though you have a deep dark knowledge. I +</I>><i> > don't really have time to do marketing 101 here and It's wasting my time +</I>><i> > when I could be doing the more useful things that the Founders have +</I>><i> > asked us to do. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now this last comment does not at all follow the Values... +</I>><i> The "more useful things to do" approach is never a good argument... ever... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > However: +</I>><i> > Marketing raises Brand awareness +</I>><i> > It connects a value with the product in the Consumers mind +</I>><i> > It connects a brand with people on an emotional level +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > That's it, Getting people to use it is Sales which is a different beast +</I>><i> > altogether. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> True. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > We get people to see the brand, connect with the brand and then think +</I>><i> > about investigating it after that it's sales and engineering. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But as one point already made, namely the "engineering part"... +</I>><i> It does not help if we get a brand, but no developers & testers that is +</I>><i> interested in it... +</I> +Agreed, and that is another target market. We need to develop a brand that +suits that particular market. One of the drivers in the younger end of this +group is "fame" or recognition. High profile distros with a good brand image +attract these people especially if there is a large user base. Ubuntu have +done this well. Arguably the greatest part of their success is the number iof +devs that they attract, This is pretty obvious when you attend Linux confs, +interestingly the question: "Does it make a better Distro" could be debated. + +There are many reasons for this but probably a big driver is the "Significant +addition to the CV" Which works better when working for a high profile +project. +><i> +</I>><i> >> Software is not a car or a handbag or a jacket, those are items where +</I>><i> >> looks and design counts a lot, with software the only design that counts +</I>><i> >> is UI interface design aimed at maximising usability. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> One thing that we must be careful about is the "maximising usability" +</I>><i> part, as it's easy to get it so "dumbed down" that it ends up +</I>><i> useless/annoying for many users... +</I> +Again in certain market segments "dumbed down" is exactly what is needed by +the end user, I have suggested a solution to this particular dichotomy, we +will see, I'm not sure if my solution is feasible from a Devs POV + +><i> +</I>><i> > There is an old saying there are none so blind as those that will not +</I>><i> > see, and it doesn't matter how good the UI is, if no-one looks at it, +</I>><i> > it's the same for anything, you can make it as pretty and as usable as +</I>><i> > you want if nobody knows the brand exists then the only ones that will +</I>><i> > connect are the ones that stumble across it accidentally. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> True. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Once more, this is wasting my time and there is no point in discussing +</I>><i> > this with a closed mind and entrenched attitudes. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> and the Values got hit again :( +</I>><i> please think before you write. +</I> +I did think and I stand by the comment + +><i> +</I>><i> And if you think of the last statement, the "closed mind" part goes both +</I>><i> ways. +</I>><i> Many things in this discussion does come out as "closed marketing mind" +</I>><i> vs "closed user/developer mind". +</I>><i> +</I> +My mind is open, it has to be, I work in a marketing team. I enjoy good +debate and I get annoyed when people make broad statements that they have no +evidence for and at the same time, completely ignore positions that are +supported by substantive and exhaustive research that is done on a daily basis +by companies all round the world. + +The problem we have is perhaps one of communication in that we need to +communicate with people the value of marketing in an OSS project. I actually +made comments on my blog about this. + + Unfortunately (or fortunately from my POV) I first got into FOSS marketing in +OOo where the marketing team has a project of it's own +(<A HREF="http://marketing.openoffice.org">http://marketing.openoffice.org</A>) and it's a very supportive environment +because the project values it's marketing team. And I think that shows in the +results. + +However having said all that I'll work on the grumpiness factor. :) + +and I'll keep my grumps to my blog! + +<A HREF="http://no-humble-opinions.blogspot.com/2010/10/free-marketing.html">http://no-humble-opinions.blogspot.com/2010/10/free-marketing.html</A> + +><i> -- +</I>><i> Thomas +</I> +Cheers +GL + +-- +Graham Lauder, +OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ +<A HREF="http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html">http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html</A> + +OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant. + +INGOTs Moderator New Zealand +www.theingots.org.nz + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002379.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002385.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2384">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2384">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2384">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2384">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002385.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002385.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c7e7f2bca --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002385.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010140928.38276.omejean%40yahoo.fr%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002384.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002390.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Olivier Méjean</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010140928.38276.omejean%40yahoo.fr%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">omejean at yahoo.fr + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 09:28:38 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002384.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002390.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2385">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2385">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2385">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2385">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le jeudi 14 octobre 2010 05:16:39, Tux99 a écrit : +><i> On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Graham Lauder wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > How many users does Mandriva have worldwide, compare that to the number +</I>><i> > of computer users and you will see that the "one size fits all" does not +</I>><i> > equal significant market share. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Mandriva is not a "one size fits all". It is the best Linux desktop +</I>><i> distro, but it's not the best choice as a server distro or for many +</I>><i> other uses. +</I>><i> The fact that it doesn't have more users is primarily due to the unfair +</I>><i> advantage that Windows has because it comes preinstalled on PCs. +</I>><i> +</I> +We have to separe MS market locking and Mandriva communication failure. When +bad news around Mandriva were there and when Mageia announces its fork, i've +read some (many ;) ) comments about how Mandriva is used in servers. Don't get +me wrong, i already knew that Mandriva could be used in servers. Anyway, you +can hardly find any information of this uses on Mandriva website, hardly no +study case is available on the same website that one could download. That's +the same for OEM installation in Brazil (or wherever), hardly no information +on that. + +Being the best linux distro is not enough nowadays, we must let it know widely +and do feel that Mageia is not yet another distribution among hundreds of +distribution. Mageia is your future distribution even if you don't know it yet +! :) + +Anyway, i don't think we can just transpose what's done for OOo to Mageia. OOo +just compete to MS Office, Mageia compete to hundreds of Linux Distribution, and +other OS, not quite the same scale. + +Olivier +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002384.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002390.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2385">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2385">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2385">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2385">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002386.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002386.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d5267a1e5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002386.html @@ -0,0 +1,172 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010142044.52502.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002382.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002387.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Graham Lauder</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010142044.52502.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">yorick_ at openoffice.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 09:44:52 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002382.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002387.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2386">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2386">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2386">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2386">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 19:46:39 Thomas Backlund wrote: +><i> Graham Lauder skrev 14.10.2010 05:37: +</I>><i> > That's the difference. In these days of online build services there is +</I>><i> > arguably no reason that we could not create different package sets on +</I>><i> > different media for different markets and completely different branding +</I>><i> > for each set. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> oh but there is... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> developer base, testers, QA, Mirroring infra. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> simply rebuilding a package does not mean that it actually works. +</I> +Fair comment and as I said It is outside my area of expertise so while I see +it as desirable at the end of the day there aren't the resources then shelve +the idea + + +><i> +</I>><i> > How many users does Mandriva have worldwide, compare that to the number +</I>><i> > of computer users and you will see that the "one size fits all" does not +</I>><i> > equal significant market share. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > OpenOffice.org user base is estimated to be around 100 million, the vast +</I>><i> > majority (around 90%) on an MS platform even though linux distros get it +</I>><i> > by default. OOo is targeted at office productivity people for obvious +</I>><i> > reasons, it's branding, colour design (Blue engenders a feeling of +</I>><i> > reliability and efficiency) is aimed at that market group. The Logo +</I>><i> > design is aimed at a 30 to 45 age group, who are the decision makers in +</I>><i> > this group and to whom "Gulls" = Freedom. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > As far as we can tell, OOo out performs MSO 2003, 2007 and 2010 combined +</I>><i> > outside of educational institutions, but still is nowhere near the +</I>><i> > combined user base of the MSO 97/2000/XP group. This penetration is +</I>><i> > down to marketing on a shoestring, the OOo marketing project is the most +</I>><i> > active, marketing group in the FOSS world other than RedHat, Ubuntu and +</I>><i> > Mozilla, most of whom are paid and have a budget. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Ignoring the Linux userbase for now, OpenOffice usage on MS side is +</I>><i> chosen on three merits: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1. its free (economy) +</I>><i> 2. it works as intended (need) +</I>><i> 3. its open source (ideology) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And the two first ones are the biggest reason obviously. +</I> +All true, but without people pumping out press releases, hammering the social +media, attending events, getting it onto Magazine cds, running campaigns and +all that unpopular marketing stuff, those people wouldn't have known that they +had a choice. We have pushed it the point now where MS are actively +campaigning against us, it's brilliant, it means we're hurting them. + + +><i> +</I>><i> > We do not work on voodoo, we work on science with measurable results. I +</I>><i> > don't dismiss your code as crap because I am not a hacker. Don't +</I>><i> > dismiss what I say as nonsense without logical and reasoned argument to +</I>><i> > back it up. Your "feelings" don't count as a logical counter argument. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I don't "fear", I _know_ from experience and research that a "One Size +</I>><i> > Fits All" Product and marketing campaign will go nowhere. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yeah, we can never please all, thats true, but we must also be careful +</I>><i> to not be "too narrow" as it also "kills" the product +</I> +Here I respectfully disagree, it kills the product in certain market segments, +certainly + +><i> +</I>><i> > As an addendum to that I would ask the question, The Zero to dead, male +</I>><i> > and female market group, and I presume all nationalities and all +</I>><i> > religions and all social groupings and all job types and all locations +</I>><i> > and localities, young, old teenaged and middleaged, technologically +</I>><i> > educated and illiterate. How would you present Mageia to all these +</I>><i> > vastly different groups of people? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Its Linux! Anything anywhere! Whatever you need, we got it! :) +</I> +Heh, that's the point, it's not Linux, it's Mageia, if it was only about linux +there would be no point, there's plenty of Linux out there already + +><i> +</I>><i> > Wouldn't it be more sensible to say: "This group of people could +</I>><i> > materially benefit from using Mageia as their preferred Technology +</I>><i> > platform, let's communicate with them in a way that they can relate to." +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yep. as long as it's not driven to a point where we offend/repel parts +</I>><i> of the community. +</I> +I think you miss the point here, this statement applies to any predefined +group, that could be developers, why should communicating with one group +alienate another. All I'm saying is that we need to communicate and we need +to shape that communication to the particular audience. + +><i> +</I>><i> Remember, Mageia _is_ a Community distribution. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Thomas +</I> +Indeed + +Cheers +GL +-- +Graham Lauder, +OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ +<A HREF="http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html">http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html</A> + +OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant. + +INGOTs Moderator New Zealand +www.theingots.org.nz + +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002382.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002387.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2386">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2386">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2386">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2386">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002387.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002387.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b2d8dc231 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002387.html @@ -0,0 +1,192 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C4CB6BC8E.9070800%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002386.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002389.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C4CB6BC8E.9070800%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 10:17:18 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002386.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002389.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2387">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2387">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2387">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2387">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Graham Lauder skrev 14.10.2010 10:44: +><i> On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 19:46:39 Thomas Backlund wrote: +</I>>><i> Graham Lauder skrev 14.10.2010 05:37: +</I>>>><i> That's the difference. In these days of online build services there is +</I>>>><i> arguably no reason that we could not create different package sets on +</I>>>><i> different media for different markets and completely different branding +</I>>>><i> for each set. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> oh but there is... +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> developer base, testers, QA, Mirroring infra. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> simply rebuilding a package does not mean that it actually works. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Fair comment and as I said It is outside my area of expertise so while I see +</I>><i> it as desirable at the end of the day there aren't the resources then shelve +</I>><i> the idea +</I>><i> +</I> +Of course we can set up some task-* packages to make it easier to +install a specific segment too... time will tell... + +>><i> +</I>>>><i> How many users does Mandriva have worldwide, compare that to the number +</I>>>><i> of computer users and you will see that the "one size fits all" does not +</I>>>><i> equal significant market share. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> OpenOffice.org user base is estimated to be around 100 million, the vast +</I>>>><i> majority (around 90%) on an MS platform even though linux distros get it +</I>>>><i> by default. OOo is targeted at office productivity people for obvious +</I>>>><i> reasons, it's branding, colour design (Blue engenders a feeling of +</I>>>><i> reliability and efficiency) is aimed at that market group. The Logo +</I>>>><i> design is aimed at a 30 to 45 age group, who are the decision makers in +</I>>>><i> this group and to whom "Gulls" = Freedom. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> As far as we can tell, OOo out performs MSO 2003, 2007 and 2010 combined +</I>>>><i> outside of educational institutions, but still is nowhere near the +</I>>>><i> combined user base of the MSO 97/2000/XP group. This penetration is +</I>>>><i> down to marketing on a shoestring, the OOo marketing project is the most +</I>>>><i> active, marketing group in the FOSS world other than RedHat, Ubuntu and +</I>>>><i> Mozilla, most of whom are paid and have a budget. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Ignoring the Linux userbase for now, OpenOffice usage on MS side is +</I>>><i> chosen on three merits: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> 1. its free (economy) +</I>>><i> 2. it works as intended (need) +</I>>><i> 3. its open source (ideology) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> And the two first ones are the biggest reason obviously. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> All true, but without people pumping out press releases, hammering the social +</I>><i> media, attending events, getting it onto Magazine cds, running campaigns and +</I>><i> all that unpopular marketing stuff, those people wouldn't have known that they +</I>><i> had a choice. We have pushed it the point now where MS are actively +</I>><i> campaigning against us, it's brilliant, it means we're hurting them. +</I>><i> +</I> +Yep. Very true. + +><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> We do not work on voodoo, we work on science with measurable results. I +</I>>>><i> don't dismiss your code as crap because I am not a hacker. Don't +</I>>>><i> dismiss what I say as nonsense without logical and reasoned argument to +</I>>>><i> back it up. Your "feelings" don't count as a logical counter argument. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I don't "fear", I _know_ from experience and research that a "One Size +</I>>>><i> Fits All" Product and marketing campaign will go nowhere. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Yeah, we can never please all, thats true, but we must also be careful +</I>>><i> to not be "too narrow" as it also "kills" the product +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Here I respectfully disagree, it kills the product in certain market segments, +</I>><i> certainly +</I>><i> +</I> +Yeah, I'm not sure I want to kill a market segment just because I target +another userbase. + +but the "too narrow" is quite diffuse, so we'll see where we end up... + + +>><i> +</I>>>><i> As an addendum to that I would ask the question, The Zero to dead, male +</I>>>><i> and female market group, and I presume all nationalities and all +</I>>>><i> religions and all social groupings and all job types and all locations +</I>>>><i> and localities, young, old teenaged and middleaged, technologically +</I>>>><i> educated and illiterate. How would you present Mageia to all these +</I>>>><i> vastly different groups of people? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Its Linux! Anything anywhere! Whatever you need, we got it! :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Heh, that's the point, it's not Linux, it's Mageia, if it was only about linux +</I>><i> there would be no point, there's plenty of Linux out there already +</I>><i> +</I> +Yeah, thats also the "problem", we always get into "Its Linux/FOSS", +"others can do, so why cant you" kind of arguments with users, so its a +fine line to walk... + +>><i> +</I>>>><i> Wouldn't it be more sensible to say: "This group of people could +</I>>>><i> materially benefit from using Mageia as their preferred Technology +</I>>>><i> platform, let's communicate with them in a way that they can relate to." +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Yep. as long as it's not driven to a point where we offend/repel parts +</I>>><i> of the community. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think you miss the point here, this statement applies to any predefined +</I>><i> group, that could be developers, why should communicating with one group +</I>><i> alienate another. All I'm saying is that we need to communicate and we need +</I>><i> to shape that communication to the particular audience. +</I>><i> +</I> +Problem is that if we push too hard on a "This group of people could +benefit..." it often turns into "Its only for 'This group of people'", +you better use ... + +Do we really want that? + +>><i> +</I>>><i> Remember, Mageia _is_ a Community distribution. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> -- +</I>>><i> Thomas +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Indeed +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Cheers +</I>><i> GL +</I> +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002386.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002389.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2387">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2387">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2387">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2387">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002388.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002388.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8c93ab993 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002388.html @@ -0,0 +1,145 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C20101014111033.31c6fa0f%40werewolf.home%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002399.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002395.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>J.A. Magallón</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C20101014111033.31c6fa0f%40werewolf.home%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">jamagallon at ono.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 11:10:33 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002399.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002395.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2388">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2388">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2388">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2388">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:37:29 +1300, Graham Lauder <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">yorick_ at openoffice.org</A>> wrote: + +><i> On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 14:18:02 Tux99 wrote: +</I>><i> > I'm with wobo and Margot here, I fear this 'targeting' will simply result +</I>><i> > in restricting our potential user-base (i.e. rather than attracting more +</I>><i> > users it will turn off many users). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It is a well known fact, that you cannot be all things to all people, to try +</I>><i> to do that would end up being everything to noone. I would prefer to be the +</I>><i> best we can be to those who grow to love the brand. +</I>><i> +</I> +Wrong, from my POV. +Its Linux. Linux has it all. You just have to choose what you want in +your install, desktop software, server software or both. + +An example. Our admins at the university choose CentOS as their distro +for labs and servers. CentOS is marketed as a RHEL derivative, focused +on server and stability. Why CentOS ? Its RHEL but with free +support. What about desktop software ? Its generally outated. What +about HW support ? Same. CentOS people patches their soft, but what +do you prefer, a home patched ancient kernel or an updated one with the real +official and tested fixes ? If they wanted the best of both worlds +they could choose Mandriva for labs desktops and CentOS for servers, +if they are so fond of CentOS as server. But noooone wants to admin two +linux distros. + +But me, I have always intalled Mandriva both for desktops and for servers. +Reasons: +- I had the best hw support +- I had updated software +- It is stable +- I could use the SAME distro (even the same CD) to install a desktop + box for development, for office work, or a server with samba and ldap + and apache, or a HPC cluster with openmpi. + +Why ? I know Mandriva, I know it has all the soft that I need for all +fields, and yes, ONE SIZE FITS ALL my meeds. But that is because I +know Mandriva. Why Mandriva has no fame in the big picture of +servers ? Because someone marketed it time ago as a desktop distro. +But as a server is much better than any CentOS or Ubuntu out there. +But nobody knows... + +Lets suppose the marketing decissions focus Mageia on desktop, and there +is no effort in packaging things like MPI, the latest version of gcc, +or no cluster filesystem. I don't want to use two distros. I don't like +to go to external repos (like one has to do in CentOS) to get some +common software, or a decently updated version of common things. +I would have to look for another option. Now I like Mandriva because +it has _all_ the _latest_ things I need. + +><i> That's the difference. In these days of online build services there is +</I>><i> arguably no reason that we could not create different package sets on +</I>><i> different media for different markets and completely different branding for +</I>><i> each set. +</I>><i> +</I> +I would not do the branding part. That's like using Ubuntu for desktops +and RHEL for servers. It becomes using two different distros in the end. +And usually people don't like that. + +><i> How many users does Mandriva have worldwide, compare that to the number of +</I>><i> computer users and you will see that the "one size fits all" does not equal +</I>><i> significant market share. +</I> +Two examples (from what I have seen, I know its not the general rule...): +- Fedora/Ubuntu users: I want a modern desktop. I don't mind 'bout my + samba being modern and hit some recent obscure undisclosed bug. +- RHEL/CentOS: I want a 3 years old samba, tested and debugged. + I don't mind about firefox being still 3.0. + +Why can't we have a distro that says 'Here you have the latest stable server +software, with the latest hardware kernel support, all packed under the +best looking desktop ever!!!'. Is it hard to do ? Mandriva community was doing. + +No focus, state clearly you have all and user just have to choose. +For each interest group, just say 'what do you want, what do you need... +here it is!'. + +Just my POV... + +-- +J.A. Magallon <jamagallon()ono!com> \ Software is like sex: + \ It's better when it's free +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002399.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002395.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2388">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2388">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2388">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2388">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002389.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002389.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..26b0ce5d6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002389.html @@ -0,0 +1,88 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C20101014111815.4961556d%40werewolf.home%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002387.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002391.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>J.A. Magallón</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C20101014111815.4961556d%40werewolf.home%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">jamagallon at ono.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 11:18:15 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002387.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002391.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2389">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2389">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2389">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2389">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 11:17:18 +0300, Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">tmb at iki.fi</A>> wrote: + +><i> >> +</I>><i> >>> Wouldn't it be more sensible to say: "This group of people could +</I>><i> >>> materially benefit from using Mageia as their preferred Technology +</I>><i> >>> platform, let's communicate with them in a way that they can relate to." +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> Yep. as long as it's not driven to a point where we offend/repel parts +</I>><i> >> of the community. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I think you miss the point here, this statement applies to any predefined +</I>><i> > group, that could be developers, why should communicating with one group +</I>><i> > alienate another. All I'm saying is that we need to communicate and we need +</I>><i> > to shape that communication to the particular audience. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Problem is that if we push too hard on a "This group of people could +</I>><i> benefit..." it often turns into "Its only for 'This group of people'", +</I>><i> you better use ... +</I>><i> +</I> +You could always change the marketing hype from 'This is for you' to +'What do you want ? We have it !', and state different lists of 'what +we have' for different groups. So you're promoting the _same_ distro, +not different brands/versions, for everyone. And at the end... +'we even have a predefined package set for you to install your servers +or your desktops, your office or gaming box, no funny package cherry picking...'. + +-- +J.A. Magallon <jamagallon()ono!com> \ Software is like sex: + \ It's better when it's free +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002387.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002391.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2389">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2389">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2389">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2389">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002390.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002390.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1a3518e21 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002390.html @@ -0,0 +1,114 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010142230.26173.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002385.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002382.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Graham Lauder</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010142230.26173.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">yorick_ at openoffice.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 11:30:25 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002385.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002382.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2390">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2390">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2390">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2390">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 20:28:38 Olivier Méjean wrote: + +><i> +</I>><i> Being the best linux distro is not enough nowadays, we must let it know +</I>><i> widely and do feel that Mageia is not yet another distribution among +</I>><i> hundreds of distribution. Mageia is your future distribution even if you +</I>><i> don't know it yet ! :) +</I> +And that is a fallacy of thinking, we should not be competing against other +distros, we compete against MS + +><i> +</I>><i> Anyway, i don't think we can just transpose what's done for OOo to Mageia. +</I>><i> OOo just compete to MS Office, Mageia compete to hundreds of Linux +</I>><i> Distribution, and other OS, not quite the same scale. +</I> +You are kidding of course, OOo competes in a very competitive environment. +KOffice, Gnome Office just in the Linux space, then on windows we're up +against Wordperfect, who have huge history in the space, Lotus Symphony, MS +Works etc. In the Linux space, Mageia competes with a whole pile small +players in a small market. Total is around 1.5% of the total OS market, then +there is 3.5 % for Mac and the rest MS. + +Now the following is my opinion only to be taken with grain of salt or +whatever condiment you prefer. + +We are in the desktop computing market, the chunk we want a part of is at +present occupied by MS. In this market the name we want to promote is Mageia, +we have no need to identify with Linux. I have no problem helping the others +into the market but we need to focus on MS users. If we happen to increase +the market for Linux then great but our focus should be on Mageia. Right now +there are too many distros, linux is confusing to the market, we have no need +to identify with it. + +Our goal should be be seen as the primary alternative to the encumbent leader + +Focus on why we are better and tell the world. + +When the Steve gets people making videos like this + +<A HREF="http://blogs.technet.com/b/whymicrosoft/archive/2010/10/05/15-customers-who-">http://blogs.technet.com/b/whymicrosoft/archive/2010/10/05/15-customers-who-</A> +switched-to-microsoft-office-after-evaluating-openoffice-org.aspx + +but focused on Mageia then we know we've made it +><i> +</I>><i> Olivier +</I> +Cheers +GL +-- +Graham Lauder, +OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ +<A HREF="http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html">http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html</A> + +OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant. + +INGOTs Moderator New Zealand +www.theingots.org.nz + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002385.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002382.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2390">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2390">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2390">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2390">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002391.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002391.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f005f59c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002391.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010141131260.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002389.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002398.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010141131260.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 11:34:35 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002389.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002398.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2391">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2391">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2391">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2391">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, J.A. Magallón wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> You could always change the marketing hype from 'This is for you' to +</I>><i> 'What do you want ? We have it !', and state different lists of 'what +</I>><i> we have' for different groups. So you're promoting the _same_ distro, +</I>><i> not different brands/versions, for everyone. And at the end... +</I>><i> 'we even have a predefined package set for you to install your servers +</I>><i> or your desktops, your office or gaming box, no funny package cherry picking...'. +</I> +I like this idea, this is exactly how I would do it too, but then +what do I know, I'm only a dumb techie, not a marketing expert... + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002389.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002398.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2391">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2391">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2391">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2391">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002395.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002395.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1dd4fb4b9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002395.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C4CB6E19E.2070805%40roadrunner.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002388.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002396.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Frank Griffin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C4CB6E19E.2070805%40roadrunner.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">ftg at roadrunner.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 12:55:26 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002388.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002396.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2395">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2395">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2395">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2395">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Graham Lauder wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> It is a well known fact, that you cannot be all things to all people, to try +</I>><i> to do that would end up being everything to noone. I would prefer to be the +</I>><i> best we can be to those who grow to love the brand. +</I>><i> +</I>I think you may be getting tarred with a brush you don't deserve. The +pushback you're getting from technical people on this issue is very +likely fallout from the way Mandriva handled this issue. + +Most technical people couldn't care less what logo or color scheme you +use. But Mandriva pushed the philosophy of "let's be the newbie distro" +down to the design level, often hiding or eliminating more advanced +functions, obfuscating internal operations, and offering only +unnecessarily limited/simplified choices. + +So we ended up with a menu scheme that was counterintuitive to most +Linux users, a situation where you could install a package and find that +there was no menu entry created for it because it was a KDE package and +you were using GNOME, or because somebody decided for you that newbies +wouldn't use it so it wasn't worth cluttering the menu. We confused the +hell out of people by making the default package choice in rpmdrake +"packages with GUI" because somebody decided that newbies shouldn't be +shown CLI-only packages, resulting in a situation where people searching +for packages with keywords couldn't find them unless they realized this +and set the default back to "All". + +That's what I, at any rate, don't want to see happen again. But it +sounds like that's not what you're saying. But realize that you're +talking to a technical audience, and when you say "target the distro", +they are thinking this sort of thing rather than logos and colors. +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002388.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002396.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2395">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2395">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2395">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2395">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002396.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002396.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..aa12e7ba6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002396.html @@ -0,0 +1,119 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20wiki%20responsable&In-Reply-To=%3C201010140928.40418.terraagua%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002395.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002397.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable</H1> + <B>MacXi</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20wiki%20responsable&In-Reply-To=%3C201010140928.40418.terraagua%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable">terraagua at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 14:28:40 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002395.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002397.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2396">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2396">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2396">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2396">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Em Qua 13 Out 2010, às 14:10:44, Cazzaniga Sandro escreveu: +><i> Hi, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You probably known that we have a temporary wiki, for the moment. But +</I>><i> when we'll have a real wiki, why do you think about nominate a +</I>><i> responsable, coordinator of tasks in the wiki? If you (all contributors +</I>><i> who are reading mageia-discuss) are ok, i'll be happy to do that. +</I>><i> Cheers! +</I> + Sandro, + +If you were responsible for the wiki, I suggest for "main page": + + +====== Temporary wiki for Mageia project ====== + +As announced in Mageia blog, this is a temporary wiki to collect all +ressources in a more efficient way. Its goal is to list people and proposals for +infrastructure. **Please do not add any other topics, it would be deleted**. + +====== Join us! ====== + * **Add your name in one or several categories below. Thanks in advance +for your contribution!** + * 2 representatives (1 member + 1 alternate) will be chosen for each +group. They will act as referer to organize group and will be part of +distribution board.\\ \\ + - [[packaging|Packaging]] + - [[developers|Distro Developers]] + - [[documentation|Documentation]] + - [[translators|Translators]] + - [[qateam|QA team]] + - [[triage|Triage team]] + - [[web|Web developers]] + - [[designers|Designers]] + - [[forums|Mageia official forums admin / moderators]] + - [[mailinglists|Mageia official ML moderators]] + - [[community|Users community management]] + - [[marketing|Official Marketing team ]] + - [[communication|Official Communication team ]] + - [[ressources|Hardware ressources ]]\\ \\ + - [[supporter|Mageia supporter]]\\ \\ + - [[artguide|Logo & artwork guidelines ]] +\\ +====== Others links ====== + - [[blog|blog]] + - [[directory|directory]] + - [[founders|founders]] + - [[i18n-nl|i18n-nl]] + - [[irc|IRC]] + - [[meetings|meetings]] + - [[metrics|metrics]] + - [[mirror.readme|mirror.readme]] + - [[org|Org]] + - [[press|Press]] + - [[rollingdebate|Rollingdebate]] + - [[sysadmin|Sysadmin]] +\\ +====== External links ====== + * [[<A HREF="http://mageia.org/pt-br/|Site">http://mageia.org/pt-br/|Site</A> Mageia]] + * [[<A HREF="http://blog.mageia.org|Blog">http://blog.mageia.org|Blog</A> Mageia]] + +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002395.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002397.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2396">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2396">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2396">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2396">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002397.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002397.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b40735641 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002397.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20wiki%20responsable&In-Reply-To=%3C201010140952.26669.terraagua%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002396.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002400.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable</H1> + <B>MacXi</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20wiki%20responsable&In-Reply-To=%3C201010140952.26669.terraagua%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable">terraagua at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 14:52:26 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002396.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002400.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Flash +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2397">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2397">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2397">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2397">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Em Qua 13 Out 2010, às 14:10:44, Cazzaniga Sandro escreveu: +><i> Hi, +</I>><i> You probably known that we have a temporary wiki, for the moment. But +</I>><i> when we'll have a real wiki, why do you think about nominate a +</I>><i> responsable, coordinator of tasks in the wiki? If you (all contributors +</I>><i> who are reading mageia-discuss) are ok, i'll be happy to do that. +</I>><i> Cheers! +</I> +Sandro, + +If you were responsable for the wiki, I would also suggest that the end of +every page of the wiki had a link to the main page (back to home / wiki). This +makes it easy to access wiki pages without left side column as the index +(even though provisional). + +It's the same situation as the wiki Mandriva-Brasil: (<A HREF="http://docs.mandriva-">http://docs.mandriva-</A> +br.org/), using Dokuwiki. + +Hug + +MacXi +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101014/694bba45/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002396.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002400.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Flash +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2397">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2397">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2397">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2397">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002398.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002398.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e1ad23c52 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002398.html @@ -0,0 +1,195 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DG_s%2Bs8jTasMBmDP3Yzuzhh8YBy2Wx8AA3UKCp%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002391.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002399.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DG_s%2Bs8jTasMBmDP3Yzuzhh8YBy2Wx8AA3UKCp%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 14:40:54 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002391.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002399.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2398">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2398">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2398">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2398">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hey everyone, + +so, to re-frame a bit things and cool down. + +First, thank you all for this conversation. That shows you care. And +that's great. At times, we may disagree with each other, we may not +manage properly yet how we say things, we may look or be a bit slow or +too fast. But we still can make something together - provided we aim +something in common, we trust and respect each other and we know how +to step down and apologize when needed. + +That's not to say it's easy. It's probably the hardest part. We just +have to take it into account and build our way with it. + + +A quick note the about logo proposals thing. Right, we may pause it, +however everyone started to propose logos even before we talked about +it; so at least we reframe the proposals a bit without making a full +stop. That gives more info to graphic designers at this point and we +can refine the technical specs as well. + + +So... + +#1 Yes, marketing has a say in how we do things in this project. So +does each team. We didn't listed all these teams without intending to +articulate their contributions. + +One of the crucial points in this project is to make everyone respect +and understand each other; knowledge, feelings, opinions, unknowns are +all in the game and we all have to learn how to deal with this to go +forward. + +Marketing, communication (and coordination/inclusion into the project +main decisions) are indeed, in our inherited culture, not quite known +& understood. Each team has its own culture, process. Without all +becoming experts of each others' specialties, we need to understand, +value and trust our reciprocal contributions to benefit the whole +project. + +Of course we are in a Open Source project so it makes some teams more +in technical power of decision (because they don't approve or because +they don't deliver or because there are technical obstacles or...). +That's true and that makes even more important that all participants +acknowledge that we all have + +So whether it takes more time, more discussion, an agreement or it's +up to the Council or the Board to decide in last resort. We will +strive to base our decisions on three things: project mission, values +and facts. Feelings are here as "warning signals" of dissonance and +understood as such; and should be resolved hopefully. + +Disagreements may appear from diverse reasons; one may be that we've +not been specific enough about the direction (because we didn't or +because we still don't know well enough how to be specific enough; +that's something to refine as well). + + +#2. Mageia.org does not target desktop users especially. Well, we do; +as we do target servers and embedded devices. As well. + +Nor does it compete with other Linux distributions or other operating +systems. Yes, we do compete in some way. But we don't see ourselves +like this at first. + +The big difference we expect for Mageia.org is not to compete, but to +become a inter-disciplinary collaboration community of excellence for +free/libre projects; the Mageia Linux distribution is only one (huge, +central and first) "game" in this. As a project, as a platform, as a +product, as a showcase. + +As a hint, two teams were not listed for now, because we thought that +we need to roll out our first working ISO first and because we didn't +explained how their role would fit: ergonomics/users study and +electronics/hardware devices. + +The goal is not only to produce a ~horizontal Linux-based system that +will empower people; it's to create the conditions to build ~vertical +solutions with it, within or from the Mageia.org community. + +Mageia.org is not a commercial project but a community project; where +people/companies will bring in and bring from. Both as users and as +contributors. + +That does not prevent to design it through marketing, but that must be +aligned with the project direction. + + +So, to draw this in perspective now, here are the next big milestones +we have in sight for the coming months. That does not define long term +strategy (which is still buried in the announcement and in the +vision/mission statements being worked on) but I guess it will help: + + 1. releasing a test drive ISO before the end of November; this is to +test drive four things: + * packaging/translation/build system as a whole, + * community council and teams work & coordination, + * final product stability, + * concurrent discussions for future plans. + + 2. having December to cool down and prepare the next run; having end +of December free of any stress in this regard; + + 3. preparing coming FOSDEM in February 2011; where we shall meet more +people to discuss future and hot topics. + +Concurrent to these, Mageia.org community must form and learn on itself. + +For the marketing team, for instance, the first step could to market +the project itself toward people that will _contribute to it_, first. + +That's who we want to work with and who we want to be in love with the +product, the technology, the project and the processes first. That's +who we want to care about first. Then we will have to see how what we +love can be a fit for other people. + +(and no, that doesn't exclude all users, but only users that don't +expect to contribute to the project directly) + +That helps in three ways: + - helping refine the whole project vision as whole and advocate it; + - help contributors get a firmer grasp on who they are, and what +they're going to build; + - inform users community of what it may be going to look like. + +This, with time, will help to discuss targets with more data and more +perspective. For everyone. Notwithstanding that other teams have quite +a lot of work as well and may need to advocate it as well. + +Yes, that's a short roadmap. We can expect to have a larger one later. +But that's what we have to focus on at this time. + +We will dig into some of these points in dedicated meetings in the +next days (marketing/communication, roadmap and weekly progress). + + +Cheers, + +Romain +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002391.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002399.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2398">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2398">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2398">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2398">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002399.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002399.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f317715e6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002399.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010150900.23506.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002398.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002388.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Graham Lauder</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010150900.23506.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">yorick_ at openoffice.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 22:00:23 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002398.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002388.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2399">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2399">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2399">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2399">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 22:34:35 Tux99 wrote: +><i> On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, J.A. Magallón wrote: +</I>><i> > You could always change the marketing hype from 'This is for you' to +</I>><i> > 'What do you want ? We have it !', and state different lists of 'what +</I>><i> > we have' for different groups. So you're promoting the _same_ distro, +</I>><i> > not different brands/versions, for everyone. And at the end... +</I>><i> > 'we even have a predefined package set for you to install your servers +</I>><i> > or your desktops, your office or gaming box, no funny package cherry +</I>><i> > picking...'. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I like this idea, this is exactly how I would do it too, but then +</I>><i> what do I know, I'm only a dumb techie, not a marketing expert... +</I> + +And I'm only a dumb Marketing Guy and not a programming expert, so we should +make a good team. :) + +However, this sort of research goes on all the time, questions are asked by +Google of their data mining, by research companies and the like and Marketing +People pay much money to these companies for the results. + +And in fact we know a lot of the answers already. What you suggest above is +in fact valid in certain market segments, but it doesn't work for all. But +then that's we do, define a market and find out what criteria are valid for +that market and package to suit. + +Cheers +GL + +-- +Graham Lauder, +OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ +<A HREF="http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html">http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html</A> + +OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant. + +INGOTs Assessor Trainer +(International Grades in Open Technologies) +www.theingots.org +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002398.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002388.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2399">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2399">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2399">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2399">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002400.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002400.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..760178b6c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/002400.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Flash + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20Flash&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinibeaxjV%3DCV4RXoNa%3D28bC5uJEwAuLZMcgmMv8%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002397.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Flash</H1> + <B>Pascal Terjan</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20Flash&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinibeaxjV%3DCV4RXoNa%3D28bC5uJEwAuLZMcgmMv8%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Flash">pterjan at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 14 23:47:07 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002397.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2400">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2400">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2400">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2400">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 03:41, Morgan Leijström <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">morgan at tribun.eu</A>> wrote: +><i> Maybe we should early try to make an iso targeted to be placed on a USB stick +</I>><i> to be booted and run from, and also have storage on the stick. +</I> +What do you mean by early? I would expect that is is done at the same +time as other isos +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002397.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2400">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2400">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2400">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2400">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8447af9c0 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,177 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 14 October 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>14 October 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 01:18:05 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:07 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 26<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002379.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2379"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002382.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2382"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002387.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2387"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002383.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2383"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002395.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2395"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002372.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2372"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002374.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2374"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002377.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2377"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002380.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2380"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002384.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2384"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002386.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2386"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002390.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2390"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002399.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2399"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002396.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A><A NAME="2396"> </A> +<I>MacXi +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002397.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A><A NAME="2397"> </A> +<I>MacXi +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002388.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2388"> </A> +<I>J.A. Magallón +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002389.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2389"> </A> +<I>J.A. Magallón +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002385.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2385"> </A> +<I>Olivier Méjean +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002400.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Flash +</A><A NAME="2400"> </A> +<I>Pascal Terjan +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002373.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2373"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002375.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2375"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002376.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2376"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002378.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2378"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002381.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2381"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002391.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2391"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002398.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2398"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:07 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:27 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b4dee3b10 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,177 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 14 October 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>14 October 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 01:18:05 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:07 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 26<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002372.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2372"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002373.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2373"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002374.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2374"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002375.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2375"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002376.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2376"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002377.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2377"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002378.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2378"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002379.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2379"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002380.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2380"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002381.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2381"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002382.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2382"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002383.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2383"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002384.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2384"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002385.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2385"> </A> +<I>Olivier Méjean +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002386.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2386"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002387.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2387"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002388.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2388"> </A> +<I>J.A. Magallón +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002389.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2389"> </A> +<I>J.A. Magallón +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002390.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2390"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002391.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2391"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002395.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2395"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002396.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A><A NAME="2396"> </A> +<I>MacXi +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002398.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2398"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002397.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A><A NAME="2397"> </A> +<I>MacXi +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002399.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2399"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002400.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Flash +</A><A NAME="2400"> </A> +<I>Pascal Terjan +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:07 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:27 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5065d55f8 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,177 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 14 October 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>14 October 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 01:18:05 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:07 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 26<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002400.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Flash +</A><A NAME="2400"> </A> +<I>Pascal Terjan +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002372.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2372"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002373.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2373"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002374.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2374"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002375.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2375"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002376.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2376"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002377.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2377"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002378.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2378"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002379.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2379"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002380.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2380"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002381.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2381"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002382.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2382"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002383.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2383"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002384.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2384"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002385.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2385"> </A> +<I>Olivier Méjean +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002386.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2386"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002387.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2387"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002388.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2388"> </A> +<I>J.A. Magallón +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002389.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2389"> </A> +<I>J.A. Magallón +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002390.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2390"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002391.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2391"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002395.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2395"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002398.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2398"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002399.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2399"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002396.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A><A NAME="2396"> </A> +<I>MacXi +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002397.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A><A NAME="2397"> </A> +<I>MacXi +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:07 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:27 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..33b88a817 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101014/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,209 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 14 October 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>14 October 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 01:18:05 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:07 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 26<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01287011885- --> +<LI><A HREF="002372.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2372"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287011885-01287019082- --> +<LI><A HREF="002373.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2373"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849- --> +<LI><A HREF="002374.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2374"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199- --> +<LI><A HREF="002375.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2375"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199-01287028735- --> +<LI><A HREF="002376.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2376"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199-01287030279- --> +<LI><A HREF="002377.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2377"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199-01287030279-01287030938- --> +<LI><A HREF="002378.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2378"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199-01287030279-01287030938-01287035627- --> +<LI><A HREF="002380.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2380"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199-01287030279-01287030938-01287035627-01287036005- --> +<LI><A HREF="002381.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2381"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199-01287030279-01287030938-01287035627-01287036005-01287040125- --> +<LI><A HREF="002383.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2383"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199-01287030279-01287034723- --> +<LI><A HREF="002379.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2379"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199-01287030279-01287034723-01287040287- --> +<LI><A HREF="002384.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2384"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199-01287041318- --> +<LI><A HREF="002385.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2385"> </A> +<I>Olivier Méjean +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287026199-01287041318-01287048625- --> +<LI><A HREF="002390.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2390"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287038799- --> +<LI><A HREF="002382.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2382"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287038799-01287042292- --> +<LI><A HREF="002386.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2386"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287038799-01287042292-01287044238- --> +<LI><A HREF="002387.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2387"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287038799-01287042292-01287044238-01287047895- --> +<LI><A HREF="002389.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2389"> </A> +<I>J.A. Magallón +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287038799-01287042292-01287044238-01287047895-01287048875- --> +<LI><A HREF="002391.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2391"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287038799-01287042292-01287044238-01287047895-01287048875-01287060054- --> +<LI><A HREF="002398.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2398"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287038799-01287042292-01287044238-01287047895-01287048875-01287086423- --> +<LI><A HREF="002399.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2399"> </A> +<I>Graham Lauder +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287047433- --> +<LI><A HREF="002388.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2388"> </A> +<I>J.A. Magallón +</I> + +<!--3 01287011885-01287019082-01287023849-01287053726- --> +<LI><A HREF="002395.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A><A NAME="2395"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01287059320- --> +<LI><A HREF="002396.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A><A NAME="2396"> </A> +<I>MacXi +</I> + +<!--0 01287060746- --> +<LI><A HREF="002397.html">[Mageia-discuss] wiki responsable +</A><A NAME="2397"> </A> +<I>MacXi +</I> + +<!--0 01287092827- --> +<LI><A HREF="002400.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Flash +</A><A NAME="2400"> </A> +<I>Pascal Terjan +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:07 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Oct 14 23:47:27 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |