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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001472.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001472.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..17840abae --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001472.html @@ -0,0 +1,146 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C20101128175028.GA5698%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001473.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Michael scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C20101128175028.GA5698%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Nov 28 18:50:28 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001473.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1472">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1472">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1472">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1472">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 11:16:57PM +0100, Maarten Vanraes wrote: +><i> Op zaterdag 27 november 2010 22:07:43 schreef Michael scherer: +</I>><i> > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 08:23:59PM +0200, Thomas Backlund wrote: +</I>><i> > > Jerome Quelin skrev 27.11.2010 19:11: +</I>><i> > > >On 10/11/27 17:59 +0100, Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> > > >and, more importantly: what is the advantage? that is, what does that +</I>><i> > > >bring you, except more admin? +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > QA! +</I>><i> > > and enduser satisfaction. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Just take a look on many bugreports in MDV Bugzilla. +</I>><i> > > If the report is against a nomaintainer@ package, currently Triage +</I>><i> > > pretty much only can state "thanks for your report, but since it has +</I>><i> > > no maintainer, nothing will probably happend" wich is not good answer +</I>><i> > > for a person that have taken the time to report a bug. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Then why don't we either : +</I>><i> > - decide that non maintened package must be taken care by trainee, as +</I>><i> > part of the training +</I>><i> > - decide to clean them. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> that's a great idea, we need more trainees! but of course, we can't do that +</I>><i> with all 5000+ unmaintained packages... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> is there a way to get rpm usage stats from those unmaintained packages. +</I> +No. We can only get download stats from mirrors. While it may be biased toward +some geographical preference ( ie, I doubt many people download locale-zh +from distrib-coffee ), it can give at least some ideas. Nothing precise, but +still better than random. + +><i> > > By having the /extra/ disabled by default, and a popup notifying the +</I>><i> > > user if he enables it that the packages are "unmaintained" he knows +</I>><i> > > he's "on his own" +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > That's already what the GPL say, basically :) +</I>><i> > ( you have no garantee of anything ). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Yet, I fail to see what benefit it does really bring to users. Most of them +</I>><i> > will enable the media ( because some people enable everything ), will +</I>><i> > forget the message ( because we always forget popup, thanks +</I>><i> > to endless abuse of such popup ), +</I>><i> > and the only benefit is that we could tell "we told you". Not really +</I>><i> > satisfying, and if I was a user, it would not really please me, nor +</I>><i> > inspire confidence. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> some would, but that they'd also enable testing, backports, debug, etc... if +</I>><i> they really do so, it's kind of their own fault. i don't think the majority +</I>><i> does that. the majority leaves it at default. +</I> +And so the majority will say "$distro is bad because there is not enough software". + +><i> The thing is that you have no guarantee, but the thing is, with mdv, there's +</I>><i> too much packages that just don't work; you install it, you click in the menu +</I>><i> and nothing happens because it doesn't work. +</I> +So too much is 10%, more ? + +><i> same thing and one of them is in extra; then i get only one, if i can't find +</I>><i> any, i can enable the searching in extra and try to find a package that works. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> that's why i personally would prefer to leave these off by default. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > We could avoid adding a media by merging this media with core, +</I>><i> > and show the popup when a user install a package without maintainer, +</I>><i> > telling either "beware, this package is currently marked as not maintained, +</I>><i> > and may be buggy. We will try to do what we can to help in this case, but +</I>><i> > no one is officialy in charge" or "we are seeking help on taking care of +</I>><i> > this package, if you use it often, please register on $URL" +</I>><i> +</I>><i> this popup will get ignored too; and persons who are perfectly aware of it, +</I>><i> will grow irritated. +</I> +Then, we can do a single "do not ask me again", or just show it once ? + +><i> +</I>><i> futhermore: (no separate extra) +</I>><i> - huge amount of packages (think of the mirrors) +</I> +mirror space is taken with extra or core. So the argument do not stand much. +Now, this would be a arguent for simply erasing those unmaintained packages. + +><i> - huge hdlists +</I> +Indeed. But if we want to have people be able to search +inside like you said you would, this would still be downloaded, be used ( so in memory ) +and on the mirror. So that's also not much a good reason. +( however, if we remove them... ) + +-- +Michael Scherer +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001473.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1472">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1472">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1472">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1472">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001473.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001473.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bed86b5da --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001473.html @@ -0,0 +1,163 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201011281901.22720.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001472.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001474.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Maarten Vanraes</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201011281901.22720.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Nov 28 19:01:22 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001472.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001474.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1473">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1473">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1473">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1473">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Op zondag 28 november 2010 18:50:28 schreef Michael scherer: +><i> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 11:16:57PM +0100, Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> > Op zaterdag 27 november 2010 22:07:43 schreef Michael scherer: +</I>><i> > > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 08:23:59PM +0200, Thomas Backlund wrote: +</I>><i> > > > Jerome Quelin skrev 27.11.2010 19:11: +</I>><i> > > > >On 10/11/27 17:59 +0100, Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> > > > >and, more importantly: what is the advantage? that is, what does +</I>><i> > > > >that bring you, except more admin? +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > QA! +</I>><i> > > > and enduser satisfaction. +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > Just take a look on many bugreports in MDV Bugzilla. +</I>><i> > > > If the report is against a nomaintainer@ package, currently Triage +</I>><i> > > > pretty much only can state "thanks for your report, but since it has +</I>><i> > > > no maintainer, nothing will probably happend" wich is not good answer +</I>><i> > > > for a person that have taken the time to report a bug. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Then why don't we either : +</I>><i> > > - decide that non maintened package must be taken care by trainee, as +</I>><i> > > part of the training +</I>><i> > > - decide to clean them. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > that's a great idea, we need more trainees! but of course, we can't do +</I>><i> > that with all 5000+ unmaintained packages... +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > is there a way to get rpm usage stats from those unmaintained packages. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No. We can only get download stats from mirrors. While it may be biased +</I>><i> toward some geographical preference ( ie, I doubt many people download +</I>><i> locale-zh from distrib-coffee ), it can give at least some ideas. Nothing +</I>><i> precise, but still better than random. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > > By having the /extra/ disabled by default, and a popup notifying the +</I>><i> > > > user if he enables it that the packages are "unmaintained" he knows +</I>><i> > > > he's "on his own" +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > That's already what the GPL say, basically :) +</I>><i> > > ( you have no garantee of anything ). +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Yet, I fail to see what benefit it does really bring to users. Most of +</I>><i> > > them will enable the media ( because some people enable everything ), +</I>><i> > > will forget the message ( because we always forget popup, thanks +</I>><i> > > to endless abuse of such popup ), +</I>><i> > > and the only benefit is that we could tell "we told you". Not really +</I>><i> > > satisfying, and if I was a user, it would not really please me, nor +</I>><i> > > inspire confidence. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > some would, but that they'd also enable testing, backports, debug, etc... +</I>><i> > if they really do so, it's kind of their own fault. i don't think the +</I>><i> > majority does that. the majority leaves it at default. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And so the majority will say "$distro is bad because there is not enough +</I>><i> software". +</I> +i think for most people what we have is enough, sometimes too much choice is +bad too. + +however, when a search doesn't give anything, it can search some of the +disabled sections; that would alleviate this problem. + +><i> > The thing is that you have no guarantee, but the thing is, with mdv, +</I>><i> > there's too much packages that just don't work; you install it, you +</I>><i> > click in the menu and nothing happens because it doesn't work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So too much is 10%, more ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > same thing and one of them is in extra; then i get only one, if i can't +</I>><i> > find any, i can enable the searching in extra and try to find a package +</I>><i> > that works. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > that's why i personally would prefer to leave these off by default. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > > We could avoid adding a media by merging this media with core, +</I>><i> > > and show the popup when a user install a package without maintainer, +</I>><i> > > telling either "beware, this package is currently marked as not +</I>><i> > > maintained, and may be buggy. We will try to do what we can to help in +</I>><i> > > this case, but no one is officialy in charge" or "we are seeking help +</I>><i> > > on taking care of this package, if you use it often, please register +</I>><i> > > on $URL" +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > this popup will get ignored too; and persons who are perfectly aware of +</I>><i> > it, will grow irritated. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then, we can do a single "do not ask me again", or just show it once ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > futhermore: (no separate extra) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > - huge amount of packages (think of the mirrors) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> mirror space is taken with extra or core. So the argument do not stand +</I>><i> much. Now, this would be a arguent for simply erasing those unmaintained +</I>><i> packages. +</I> +well, indeed, except that i'm kind of against that; and would prefer mirrors +with storage issues to just NOT include 'extra'. after all, the mirrorlist +could just get them from another mirror. + +><i> > - huge hdlists +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Indeed. But if we want to have people be able to search +</I>><i> inside like you said you would, this would still be downloaded, be used ( +</I>><i> so in memory ) and on the mirror. So that's also not much a good reason. +</I>><i> ( however, if we remove them... ) +</I> +you do have a point here; except that this also goes with updating; since +extra is unmaintained, fetching newer versions will likely have less impact. +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001472.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001474.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1473">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1473">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1473">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1473">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001474.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001474.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d295835fa --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001474.html @@ -0,0 +1,167 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201011281905.05088.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001473.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001475.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Maarten Vanraes</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201011281905.05088.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Nov 28 19:05:05 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001473.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001475.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1474">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1474">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1474">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1474">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Op zondag 28 november 2010 18:50:28 schreef Michael scherer: +><i> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 11:16:57PM +0100, Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> > Op zaterdag 27 november 2010 22:07:43 schreef Michael scherer: +</I>><i> > > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 08:23:59PM +0200, Thomas Backlund wrote: +</I>><i> > > > Jerome Quelin skrev 27.11.2010 19:11: +</I>><i> > > > >On 10/11/27 17:59 +0100, Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> > > > >and, more importantly: what is the advantage? that is, what does +</I>><i> > > > >that bring you, except more admin? +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > QA! +</I>><i> > > > and enduser satisfaction. +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > Just take a look on many bugreports in MDV Bugzilla. +</I>><i> > > > If the report is against a nomaintainer@ package, currently Triage +</I>><i> > > > pretty much only can state "thanks for your report, but since it has +</I>><i> > > > no maintainer, nothing will probably happend" wich is not good answer +</I>><i> > > > for a person that have taken the time to report a bug. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Then why don't we either : +</I>><i> > > - decide that non maintened package must be taken care by trainee, as +</I>><i> > > part of the training +</I>><i> > > - decide to clean them. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > that's a great idea, we need more trainees! but of course, we can't do +</I>><i> > that with all 5000+ unmaintained packages... +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > is there a way to get rpm usage stats from those unmaintained packages. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No. We can only get download stats from mirrors. While it may be biased +</I>><i> toward some geographical preference ( ie, I doubt many people download +</I>><i> locale-zh from distrib-coffee ), it can give at least some ideas. Nothing +</I>><i> precise, but still better than random. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > > By having the /extra/ disabled by default, and a popup notifying the +</I>><i> > > > user if he enables it that the packages are "unmaintained" he knows +</I>><i> > > > he's "on his own" +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > That's already what the GPL say, basically :) +</I>><i> > > ( you have no garantee of anything ). +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Yet, I fail to see what benefit it does really bring to users. Most of +</I>><i> > > them will enable the media ( because some people enable everything ), +</I>><i> > > will forget the message ( because we always forget popup, thanks +</I>><i> > > to endless abuse of such popup ), +</I>><i> > > and the only benefit is that we could tell "we told you". Not really +</I>><i> > > satisfying, and if I was a user, it would not really please me, nor +</I>><i> > > inspire confidence. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > some would, but that they'd also enable testing, backports, debug, etc... +</I>><i> > if they really do so, it's kind of their own fault. i don't think the +</I>><i> > majority does that. the majority leaves it at default. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And so the majority will say "$distro is bad because there is not enough +</I>><i> software". +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > The thing is that you have no guarantee, but the thing is, with mdv, +</I>><i> > there's too much packages that just don't work; you install it, you +</I>><i> > click in the menu and nothing happens because it doesn't work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So too much is 10%, more ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > same thing and one of them is in extra; then i get only one, if i can't +</I>><i> > find any, i can enable the searching in extra and try to find a package +</I>><i> > that works. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > that's why i personally would prefer to leave these off by default. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > > We could avoid adding a media by merging this media with core, +</I>><i> > > and show the popup when a user install a package without maintainer, +</I>><i> > > telling either "beware, this package is currently marked as not +</I>><i> > > maintained, and may be buggy. We will try to do what we can to help in +</I>><i> > > this case, but no one is officialy in charge" or "we are seeking help +</I>><i> > > on taking care of this package, if you use it often, please register +</I>><i> > > on $URL" +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > this popup will get ignored too; and persons who are perfectly aware of +</I>><i> > it, will grow irritated. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then, we can do a single "do not ask me again", or just show it once ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > futhermore: (no separate extra) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > - huge amount of packages (think of the mirrors) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> mirror space is taken with extra or core. So the argument do not stand +</I>><i> much. Now, this would be a arguent for simply erasing those unmaintained +</I>><i> packages. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > - huge hdlists +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Indeed. But if we want to have people be able to search +</I>><i> inside like you said you would, this would still be downloaded, be used ( +</I>><i> so in memory ) and on the mirror. So that's also not much a good reason. +</I>><i> ( however, if we remove them... ) +</I> + +for me this is more or less temporary (except that it's not). + +the idea is to supply these, so that the users don't say "there's not enough +software". + +hopefully, when our packaging_noobs grow up, they too will mentor others; so +that our packaging group will be bigger so we can have more maintained +packages. + +except that there's always unmaintained packages; sometimes these are older +packages, when there's a newer package that does the same thing, and the older +is being unmaintained. or even games that have been unmaintained or for +whatever reason. + +just my thoughts. +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001473.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001475.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1474">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1474">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1474">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1474">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001475.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001475.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1218fcc7f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001475.html @@ -0,0 +1,255 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4CF2B7C6.2080507%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001474.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001476.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4CF2B7C6.2080507%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Nov 28 21:12:54 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001474.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001476.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1475">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1475">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1475">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1475">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael scherer skrev 27.11.2010 23:07: +><i> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 08:23:59PM +0200, Thomas Backlund wrote: +</I>>><i> Jerome Quelin skrev 27.11.2010 19:11: +</I>>>><i> On 10/11/27 17:59 +0100, Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> what are the rules to move a package from extra to core, and vice-versa? +</I>>>><i> who can do it? will it be done automatically? will this imply a rebuild +</I>>>><i> for the package? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> If a maintainer picks up maintainership of a package in /extra/ it will +</I>>><i> be rebuilt and moved to /core/ asap. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> if a package in /core/ ends up nomaintainer@, then after a "grace +</I>>><i> period" (1-3 months ?) it will be moved to /extra/. +</I>>><i> and sometime before RC1 or so, any momaintainer@ package in /core/ +</I>>><i> will get moved to /extra/ as for a release the /core/ should only +</I>>><i> contain maintained packages. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But isn't it in contradiction with the fact that release should not be changed ? +</I>><i> +</I> +Nope. +The package movement only happends in Cauldron, never in a Stable +release. If a package gets "orphaned" in a stable release, we have to +cope with that. + +><i> IE, a package could be in core for one release, and extras in another. +</I>><i> +</I> +Yep. + +><i> What happen to such shrodingerian packages ? +</I>><i> What happen if this break the self containement ? +</I> +Then the package needing that should be reviewed: +- Is it an essential feature that gives the requirement? +- if not, can that part be disabled? +- if it's essential, pick up the maintainership, or get someone to do it. + +><i> And finally, isn't it redoing contribs/main , leading in the future to the same +</I>><i> problem we tried to avoid ? +</I>><i> +</I> +Not really, since all stuff maintained in old contribs is now in /core/ +I'm trying to get a fully maintained /core/ + +Or do you think it's better to have a single media wich pretty much +would be a dumping ground ? + +Of course one easy option (for us) is to simply start dropping +unmaintained packages from the mirrors. +Or as a middle ground we could set the rule on /extra/ that after a +"grace period" of x months, it will get dropped. + +Oh, and looking at current cooker: +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*mdk.*|wc -l +69 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2007.0*|wc -l +55 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2007.1*|wc -l +71 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2008.0*|wc -l +212 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2008.1*|wc -l +573 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2009.0*|wc -l +980 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2009.1*|wc -l +596 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2010.0*|wc -l +5989 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2010.1*|wc -l +11236 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2011.0*|wc -l +22182 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*mnb*|wc -l +316 + +So if we ignore the >=2010 and mnb* packages, +we still have 2256 packages that does not even have been rebuilt + +>>><i> what are the dependency rules? can a core package depend on an extra +</I>>>><i> package? or with a buildrequires? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> No. +</I>>><i> If you need to build against a package in /extra/, either pick up +</I>>><i> the maintainership of it, or try to get someone other to maintain +</I>>><i> it. +</I>>><i> then it can get into /core/ +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And so, if no one step, wouldn't it be like current mdv, where people will say +</I>><i> they maintain the package just because someone has to do the job ? +</I> +That's a risk, yeah. but if the package newer get touched, it will still +show... + +><i> +</I>>>><i> and, more importantly: what is the advantage? that is, what does that +</I>>>><i> bring you, except more admin? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> QA! +</I>>><i> and enduser satisfaction. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Just take a look on many bugreports in MDV Bugzilla. +</I>>><i> If the report is against a nomaintainer@ package, currently Triage +</I>>><i> pretty much only can state "thanks for your report, but since it has +</I>>><i> no maintainer, nothing will probably happend" wich is not good answer +</I>>><i> for a person that have taken the time to report a bug. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then why don't we either : +</I>><i> - decide that non maintened package must be taken care by trainee, as +</I>><i> part of the training +</I>><i> - decide to clean them. +</I> +This would be an option. + + +><i> +</I>>><i> By having the /extra/ disabled by default, and a popup notifying the +</I>>><i> user if he enables it that the packages are "unmaintained" he knows +</I>>><i> he's "on his own" +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That's already what the GPL say, basically :) +</I>><i> ( you have no garantee of anything ). +</I>><i> +</I> +:<i>) +</I> +><i> Yet, I fail to see what benefit it does really bring to users. Most of them +</I>><i> will enable the media ( because some people enable everything ), will forget +</I>><i> the message ( because we always forget popup, thanks +</I>><i> to endless abuse of such popup ), +</I>><i> and the only benefit is that we could tell "we told you". Not really satisfying, +</I>><i> and if I was a user, it would not really please me, nor inspire confidence. +</I>><i> +</I> +True. + +><i> We could avoid adding a media by merging this media with core, +</I>><i> and show the popup when a user install a package without maintainer, +</I>><i> telling either "beware, this package is currently marked as not maintained, and may +</I>><i> be buggy. We will try to do what we can to help in this case, but no one is officialy in charge" +</I>><i> or "we are seeking help on taking care of this package, if you use it often, please +</I>><i> register on $URL" +</I>><i> +</I>Could be done... + +One thing hit me now... +I've only been thinking of current cooker and all of the old stuff there... + +But since we are going to have to import/rebuild every package we need, +it gets real easy... We just dont import any unmaintained stuff. + +That way we get a clean mirror start for Mageia. + +And if someone import a package, it makes him the maintainer. + +Then if a package loses it maintainer, we need a policy like "if its not +maintained for X months, we drop it from the mirrors... + +So the mirror medias accordingly to all comments so far would be a simple: + +* core + - enabled by default + - mirrors must mirror this media to be listed as a mirror + - only GPL stuff + - must be selfcontained + +* nonfree + - disabled by default, installer will ask to enable it if + it detects hw that need driver/fw from here... + - mirrors must mirror this media to be listed as a mirror + - contains apps/drivers/firmware that are free to redistribute, + but we dont have GPL source for + - for example ati/nvidia drivers/firmware, Oracle Java, ... + +* tainted + - disabled by default + - mirrors are free to not mirror this media + - stuff we think we can redistribute, but that may have some + patent issues or other restrictions in oter countries. + + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001474.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001476.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1475">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1475">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1475">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1475">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001476.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001476.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2c74c437f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001476.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201011282154.18954.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001475.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001477.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Renaud MICHEL</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C201011282154.18954.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">r.h.michel+mageia at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Nov 28 21:54:18 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001475.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001477.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1476">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1476">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1476">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1476">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On dimanche 28 novembre 2010 at 21:12, Thomas Backlund wrote : +><i> So the mirror medias accordingly to all comments so far would be a +</I>><i> simple: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> * core +</I>><i> - enabled by default +</I>><i> - mirrors must mirror this media to be listed as a mirror +</I>><i> - only GPL stuff +</I> +I guess you meant free (as defined by FSF, or we can make our own +definition, like debian), we surely don't want to restrict ourself to GPL- +only stuff. + +><i> - must be selfcontained +</I>><i> +</I>><i> * nonfree +</I>><i> - disabled by default, installer will ask to enable it if +</I>><i> it detects hw that need driver/fw from here... +</I>><i> - mirrors must mirror this media to be listed as a mirror +</I>><i> - contains apps/drivers/firmware that are free to redistribute, +</I>><i> but we dont have GPL source for +</I>><i> - for example ati/nvidia drivers/firmware, Oracle Java, ... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> * tainted +</I>><i> - disabled by default +</I>><i> - mirrors are free to not mirror this media +</I>><i> - stuff we think we can redistribute, but that may have some +</I>><i> patent issues or other restrictions in oter countries. +</I> +Merging "codecs" and "firmware" into "tainted" makes sense. + +So "games" and "extra" gets merged back into core (except for non-free games +of course), won't this make an enormous repos? + +I think it was better to have a separated games repos, as it will quickly +get big, and is likely to have frequent backports (as gamers generally want +to have the latest release). + +Would it be possible to have a separate games sub-project, that won't freeze +to make releases with the rest of mageia? +Instead it would be an always updating repos which is compiled with the +latest stable release (or even the previous, if it is possible to have +packages that install correctly on both). +The project would only have a "testing" and "release" (or another name to +avoid confusion with other "release" repos which are frozen), this way you +could quickly have new versions of all the games, if they don't need +bleeding-edge libraries (I think they rarely does). + +-- +Renaud Michel +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001475.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001477.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1476">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1476">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1476">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1476">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001477.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001477.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9d640a896 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001477.html @@ -0,0 +1,126 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4CF2C54A.7040509%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001476.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001478.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4CF2C54A.7040509%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Nov 28 22:10:34 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001476.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001478.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1477">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1477">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1477">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1477">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Renaud MICHEL skrev 28.11.2010 22:54: +><i> On dimanche 28 novembre 2010 at 21:12, Thomas Backlund wrote : +</I>>><i> So the mirror medias accordingly to all comments so far would be a +</I>>><i> simple: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> * core +</I>>><i> - enabled by default +</I>>><i> - mirrors must mirror this media to be listed as a mirror +</I>>><i> - only GPL stuff +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I guess you meant free (as defined by FSF, or we can make our own +</I>><i> definition, like debian), we surely don't want to restrict ourself to GPL- +</I>><i> only stuff. +</I> +Yeah. I meant to change that. +I do mean free/libre as in FSF/OSI definition. + +><i> +</I>>><i> - must be selfcontained +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> * nonfree +</I>>><i> - disabled by default, installer will ask to enable it if +</I>>><i> it detects hw that need driver/fw from here... +</I>>><i> - mirrors must mirror this media to be listed as a mirror +</I>>><i> - contains apps/drivers/firmware that are free to redistribute, +</I>>><i> but we dont have GPL source for +</I>>><i> - for example ati/nvidia drivers/firmware, Oracle Java, ... +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> * tainted +</I>>><i> - disabled by default +</I>>><i> - mirrors are free to not mirror this media +</I>>><i> - stuff we think we can redistribute, but that may have some +</I>>><i> patent issues or other restrictions in oter countries. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Merging "codecs" and "firmware" into "tainted" makes sense. +</I>><i> +</I> +actually most firmware we have would end up in core or nonfree + +><i> So "games" and "extra" gets merged back into core (except for non-free games +</I>><i> of course), won't this make an enormous repos? +</I>><i> +</I> +People seemed to dislike the games splitout, so I "merged" it again + +><i> I think it was better to have a separated games repos, as it will quickly +</I>><i> get big, and is likely to have frequent backports (as gamers generally want +</I>><i> to have the latest release). +</I>><i> +</I> +Well, if we want to split out games, it needs atleast: +* games +* games_nonfree + +><i> Would it be possible to have a separate games sub-project, that won't freeze +</I>><i> to make releases with the rest of mageia? +</I>><i> Instead it would be an always updating repos which is compiled with the +</I>><i> latest stable release (or even the previous, if it is possible to have +</I>><i> packages that install correctly on both). +</I>><i> The project would only have a "testing" and "release" (or another name to +</I>><i> avoid confusion with other "release" repos which are frozen), this way you +</I>><i> could quickly have new versions of all the games, if they don't need +</I>><i> bleeding-edge libraries (I think they rarely does). +</I>><i> +</I> +Interesting idea, but problem is that if the games are built against +some newer system libs, they'll stop working on older releases... + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001476.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001478.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1477">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1477">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1477">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1477">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001478.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001478.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..918327555 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001478.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C20101128223154.D39C3966A6%40ryu.zarb.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001477.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Balcaen John</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C20101128223154.D39C3966A6%40ryu.zarb.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">balcaen.john at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Nov 28 23:24:50 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001477.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1478">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1478">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1478">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1478">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sunday 28 November 2010 23:10:34 Thomas Backlund wrote: +[...] +><i> > Would it be possible to have a separate games sub-project, that won't +</I>><i> > freeze to make releases with the rest of mageia? +</I>><i> > Instead it would be an always updating repos which is compiled with the +</I>><i> > latest stable release (or even the previous, if it is possible to have +</I>><i> > packages that install correctly on both). +</I>><i> > The project would only have a "testing" and "release" (or another name +</I>><i> > to +</I>><i> > avoid confusion with other "release" repos which are frozen), this way +</I>><i> > you could quickly have new versions of all the games, if they don't +</I>><i> > need bleeding-edge libraries (I think they rarely does). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Interesting idea, but problem is that if the games are built against +</I>><i> some newer system libs, they'll stop working on older releases... +</I>Is it possible to have a « repository » in stable release working as « +unstable » release : if we push version n+1 in this repository then the +version n is going to be removed to save spaces ? + +Regards, + +-- +Balcaen John + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001477.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1478">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1478">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1478">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1478">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7ac80ddf1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 28 November 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>28 November 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 18:50:28 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 23:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 7<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001475.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1475"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001477.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1477"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001478.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1478"> </A> +<I>Balcaen John +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001476.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1476"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001473.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1473"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001474.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1474"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001472.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1472"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Nov 28 23:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 23:31:56 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d59299420 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 28 November 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>28 November 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 18:50:28 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 23:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 7<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001472.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1472"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001473.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1473"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001474.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1474"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001475.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1475"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001476.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1476"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001477.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1477"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001478.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1478"> </A> +<I>Balcaen John +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Nov 28 23:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 23:31:56 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b09e8c415 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 28 November 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>28 November 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 18:50:28 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 23:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 7<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001472.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1472"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001473.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1473"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001474.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1474"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001475.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1475"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001476.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1476"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001477.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1477"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001478.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1478"> </A> +<I>Balcaen John +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Nov 28 23:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 23:31:56 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5d8bf09cd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 28 November 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>28 November 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 18:50:28 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 23:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 7<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01290966628- --> +<LI><A HREF="001472.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1472"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01290966628-01290967282- --> +<LI><A HREF="001473.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1473"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<!--1 01290966628-01290967505- --> +<LI><A HREF="001474.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1474"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +</UL> +<!--0 01290975174- --> +<LI><A HREF="001475.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1475"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01290975174-01290977658- --> +<LI><A HREF="001476.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1476"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01290975174-01290977658-01290978634- --> +<LI><A HREF="001477.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1477"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01290975174-01290977658-01290978634-01290983090- --> +<LI><A HREF="001478.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1478"> </A> +<I>Balcaen John +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Nov 28 23:24:50 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Nov 28 23:31:56 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |