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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001475.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001475.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1218fcc7f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101128/001475.html @@ -0,0 +1,255 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4CF2B7C6.2080507%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001474.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001476.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4CF2B7C6.2080507%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Nov 28 21:12:54 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001474.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001476.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1475">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1475">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1475">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1475">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael scherer skrev 27.11.2010 23:07: +><i> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 08:23:59PM +0200, Thomas Backlund wrote: +</I>>><i> Jerome Quelin skrev 27.11.2010 19:11: +</I>>>><i> On 10/11/27 17:59 +0100, Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> what are the rules to move a package from extra to core, and vice-versa? +</I>>>><i> who can do it? will it be done automatically? will this imply a rebuild +</I>>>><i> for the package? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> If a maintainer picks up maintainership of a package in /extra/ it will +</I>>><i> be rebuilt and moved to /core/ asap. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> if a package in /core/ ends up nomaintainer@, then after a "grace +</I>>><i> period" (1-3 months ?) it will be moved to /extra/. +</I>>><i> and sometime before RC1 or so, any momaintainer@ package in /core/ +</I>>><i> will get moved to /extra/ as for a release the /core/ should only +</I>>><i> contain maintained packages. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But isn't it in contradiction with the fact that release should not be changed ? +</I>><i> +</I> +Nope. +The package movement only happends in Cauldron, never in a Stable +release. If a package gets "orphaned" in a stable release, we have to +cope with that. + +><i> IE, a package could be in core for one release, and extras in another. +</I>><i> +</I> +Yep. + +><i> What happen to such shrodingerian packages ? +</I>><i> What happen if this break the self containement ? +</I> +Then the package needing that should be reviewed: +- Is it an essential feature that gives the requirement? +- if not, can that part be disabled? +- if it's essential, pick up the maintainership, or get someone to do it. + +><i> And finally, isn't it redoing contribs/main , leading in the future to the same +</I>><i> problem we tried to avoid ? +</I>><i> +</I> +Not really, since all stuff maintained in old contribs is now in /core/ +I'm trying to get a fully maintained /core/ + +Or do you think it's better to have a single media wich pretty much +would be a dumping ground ? + +Of course one easy option (for us) is to simply start dropping +unmaintained packages from the mirrors. +Or as a middle ground we could set the rule on /extra/ that after a +"grace period" of x months, it will get dropped. + +Oh, and looking at current cooker: +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*mdk.*|wc -l +69 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2007.0*|wc -l +55 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2007.1*|wc -l +71 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2008.0*|wc -l +212 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2008.1*|wc -l +573 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2009.0*|wc -l +980 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2009.1*|wc -l +596 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2010.0*|wc -l +5989 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2010.1*|wc -l +11236 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*2011.0*|wc -l +22182 +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thomas at tmb</A> Cooker]$ ls +{i586,x86_64}/media/{main,contrib}/release/*mnb*|wc -l +316 + +So if we ignore the >=2010 and mnb* packages, +we still have 2256 packages that does not even have been rebuilt + +>>><i> what are the dependency rules? can a core package depend on an extra +</I>>>><i> package? or with a buildrequires? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> No. +</I>>><i> If you need to build against a package in /extra/, either pick up +</I>>><i> the maintainership of it, or try to get someone other to maintain +</I>>><i> it. +</I>>><i> then it can get into /core/ +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And so, if no one step, wouldn't it be like current mdv, where people will say +</I>><i> they maintain the package just because someone has to do the job ? +</I> +That's a risk, yeah. but if the package newer get touched, it will still +show... + +><i> +</I>>>><i> and, more importantly: what is the advantage? that is, what does that +</I>>>><i> bring you, except more admin? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> QA! +</I>>><i> and enduser satisfaction. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Just take a look on many bugreports in MDV Bugzilla. +</I>>><i> If the report is against a nomaintainer@ package, currently Triage +</I>>><i> pretty much only can state "thanks for your report, but since it has +</I>>><i> no maintainer, nothing will probably happend" wich is not good answer +</I>>><i> for a person that have taken the time to report a bug. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then why don't we either : +</I>><i> - decide that non maintened package must be taken care by trainee, as +</I>><i> part of the training +</I>><i> - decide to clean them. +</I> +This would be an option. + + +><i> +</I>>><i> By having the /extra/ disabled by default, and a popup notifying the +</I>>><i> user if he enables it that the packages are "unmaintained" he knows +</I>>><i> he's "on his own" +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That's already what the GPL say, basically :) +</I>><i> ( you have no garantee of anything ). +</I>><i> +</I> +:<i>) +</I> +><i> Yet, I fail to see what benefit it does really bring to users. Most of them +</I>><i> will enable the media ( because some people enable everything ), will forget +</I>><i> the message ( because we always forget popup, thanks +</I>><i> to endless abuse of such popup ), +</I>><i> and the only benefit is that we could tell "we told you". Not really satisfying, +</I>><i> and if I was a user, it would not really please me, nor inspire confidence. +</I>><i> +</I> +True. + +><i> We could avoid adding a media by merging this media with core, +</I>><i> and show the popup when a user install a package without maintainer, +</I>><i> telling either "beware, this package is currently marked as not maintained, and may +</I>><i> be buggy. We will try to do what we can to help in this case, but no one is officialy in charge" +</I>><i> or "we are seeking help on taking care of this package, if you use it often, please +</I>><i> register on $URL" +</I>><i> +</I>Could be done... + +One thing hit me now... +I've only been thinking of current cooker and all of the old stuff there... + +But since we are going to have to import/rebuild every package we need, +it gets real easy... We just dont import any unmaintained stuff. + +That way we get a clean mirror start for Mageia. + +And if someone import a package, it makes him the maintainer. + +Then if a package loses it maintainer, we need a policy like "if its not +maintained for X months, we drop it from the mirrors... + +So the mirror medias accordingly to all comments so far would be a simple: + +* core + - enabled by default + - mirrors must mirror this media to be listed as a mirror + - only GPL stuff + - must be selfcontained + +* nonfree + - disabled by default, installer will ask to enable it if + it detects hw that need driver/fw from here... + - mirrors must mirror this media to be listed as a mirror + - contains apps/drivers/firmware that are free to redistribute, + but we dont have GPL source for + - for example ati/nvidia drivers/firmware, Oracle Java, ... + +* tainted + - disabled by default + - mirrors are free to not mirror this media + - stuff we think we can redistribute, but that may have some + patent issues or other restrictions in oter countries. + + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001474.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001476.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1475">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1475">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1475">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1475">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |