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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110308/003118.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110308/003118.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a6cc89224 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110308/003118.html @@ -0,0 +1,190 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] RPM5 AND MAGEIA + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20RPM5%20AND%20MAGEIA&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DbDJJfRFA-1Q7MpRy%2Bx-rpKHzKYqyNYf-cPxyj%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="003116.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="003117.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] RPM5 AND MAGEIA</H1> + <B>Anne nicolas</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20RPM5%20AND%20MAGEIA&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DbDJJfRFA-1Q7MpRy%2Bx-rpKHzKYqyNYf-cPxyj%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] RPM5 AND MAGEIA">ennael1 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Mar 8 19:38:21 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="003116.html">[Mageia-dev] RPM5 AND MAGEIA +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="003117.html">[Mageia-dev] gsoap package and license issue +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#3118">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#3118">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#3118">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#3118">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2011/3/8 Per Øyvind Karlsen <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">peroyvind at mandriva.org</A>>: +><i> 2011/3/3 Buchan Milne <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bgmilne at staff.telkomsa.net</A>>: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> ----- "devzero2000" <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">devzero2000 at rpm5.org</A>> wrote: +</I>>>><i> Apart from the rest - of which i will ask for sponsorship when it +</I>>>><i> will +</I>>>><i> be - I wanted to know if there are plans to move to rpm5 by Mageia, +</I>>>><i> such as Mandriva has been doing lately. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Rpm5 already has a builtbot +</I>>>><i> with Magela and rpm5. I can, if you can think useful or have plan for +</I>>>><i> this, lay the necessary modification to enter into rpm5 Mageia, with +</I>>>><i> the features of Mandriva cooker - fingerprint, syslog, etc. without +</I>>>><i> trademark ecc- and produce a first rpm rpm5 for mageia , which also +</I>>>><i> contains the functionality required by the passage to the "RPM +</I>>>><i> ACID " feauture (berkeley db conversion) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> But, can you: +</I>>><i> -ensure that all valid packages that build under rpm-4.x (e.g. in Mandriva 2010.x) will build under rpm5? +</I>>><i> -ensure that all valid packages that install under rpm-4.x will install under rpm-4.x? +</I>><i> No and no (I'm assuming you mean "install under rpm5 will install +</I>><i> under rpm-4.x"). +</I>><i> Such guarantees has never been provided with any other rpm versions +</I>><i> either and would effectively prevent the possibility of doing any +</I>><i> serious development +</I>><i> and improvement on rpm itself and packaging. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There's a reason for having backports and why we don't even try aiming +</I>><i> at such goals either. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If able to give any such guarantees with rpm.org on Mageia you gotta be +</I>><i> either stupid, insane or a damn liar! ;p +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The guarantees and priorities is as always: +</I>><i> * legacy compatibility for older packages +</I>><i> (opposed to future compatibility gets kinda hard with the the whole +</I>><i> time travelling issue and limitations attached to it making future +</I>><i> hard to reliably +</I>><i> define;) +</I>><i> *  backportability of current packages +</I>><i> packages needs to be adapted to follow current policies, practice, functionality +</I>><i> etc. in the current distribution, while efforts in ensuring +</I>><i> possibility of backports +</I>><i> needs to be invested in the packaging and adopting along the way rather than +</I>><i> keep adapting rpm to stay compatible with the packaging which gets rather +</I>><i> backwards. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Very few changes results in breakage for backports, and where it happens it's +</I>><i> easy enough to add conditional behaviour, nothing new forcing any real changes +</I>><i> in long-established practices here.. +</I>><i> Much of the same breakages and issues you hit, you'll hit just as well in newer +</I>><i> versions from rpm.org as well.. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> There is no document specifying what has changed, or even when highlighting changes, no-one (@rpm5.org, or @mandriva.com) has bothered to list them so that contributors can save time instead of troubleshooting breakage. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Some issues that have impacted me so far: +</I>>><i> -changed behaviour of %exclude +</I>><i> Ambiguity on %exclude usage is a clear bug, %exclude which is solely +</I>><i> intended for +</I>><i> excluding files from a specific package (rather than from being packaged at all. +</I>><i> removing files at end of %install already fit this purpose +</I>><i> sufficiently, which should +</I>><i> make it obvious to most people with understanding of doing technical designs in +</I>><i> general that wiring already existing functionality into an existing +</I>><i> function with +</I>><i> different functionality wouldn't make sense. Also this bug was fixed +</I>><i> since in later +</I>><i> releases such as 4.4.6 & 4.4.8 shipped before the rpm.org change, and should +</I>><i> rather be treated as a regression.) predates the unpackaged files check and +</I>><i> should *not* be used for other purposes. +</I>><i> Fixing this is in packaging is *very* trivial and fully backwards +</I>><i> compatible, not +</I>><i> fixing this OTOH breaks compatibility. +</I>>><i> -new reserved macros (%sql) +</I>><i> all new macros introduced has the potential of conflicting with others +</I>><i> and should +</I>><i> always be fixed, it being reserved is more a benefit IMO as it prevents such +</I>><i> incidents to go unnoticed (using very generic naming for macros is a bad +</I>><i> practice in general anyways).. +</I>><i> fixing this does not break any compatibility either ;) +</I>>><i> -possible race condition between %__os_install_post and processing of %files (.lzma man pages reported missing where they are in fact .xz) +</I>><i> your own packaging mistake independent of rpm version, explained on +</I>><i> cooker and fixed for you already ;) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> (and of course, the unavailability of the build system - during one of the periods I had the most time to work on packages - due to the rpm5 "upgrade") +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> rpm5 has wasted more than half of the time I could afford to contribute to Mandriva. It seems Mandriva has resources to waste, I don't think we have. +</I>><i> you gotta put short-term and long-term effects up against eachother. breakages +</I>><i> were already expected long before starting the upgrade, and the +</I>><i> majority of these +</I>><i> were actually rather in various tools etc. related to rpm rather than +</I>><i> in rpm itself. +</I>><i> The existing situation made it hard to maintain and do development of +</I>><i> rpm in distribution, +</I>><i> packaging and on a the various tools due to being left with since-long +</I>><i> unmaintained +</I>><i> tools used (ie. the older version of the perl bindings that only mandriva +</I>><i> uses and that has been rewritten from scratch since and actively maintained +</I>><i> upstream as well) and having to keep work around it and moving further +</I>><i> and further away from "standard" rpm packaging by keep introducing any new +</I>><i> functionality, scripts, macros etc. as distro specific and harder to collaborate +</I>><i> with others on.. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You gotta break a few eggs.. +</I>><i> Issues hit in Mandriva gets fixed along the way in both cooker and upstream +</I>><i> in parallel, making extremely few of them of any big concerns for other to +</I>><i> worry about later. +</I>><i> Maintenance and development of various tools, packaging etc. and dealing with +</I>><i> your existing and future issues experienced is something you'll be left to deal +</I>><i> with alone though.. +</I>><i> Considering the *major* amount of time and work invested in r&d historically +</I>><i> always being on Mandriva's end with almost all developers employed to +</I>><i> work on it full time. The harsh reality of trying to keep this up with only a +</I>><i> few of these working on it during their limited spare time should be obvious.. +</I>><i> You're entitled to the freedom of not showing any interest in sharing efforts on +</I>><i> any of these things (and for yourself to blame;), at least you're made aware of +</I>><i> competence, skills, interest and resources that's been offered and is still +</I>><i> available to you. :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> (At present, I am not sure if I will continue to maintain packages in Mandriva, the ones where I need newer packages on non-Mandriva at work which I currently maintain in Mandriva and then rebuild I will maintain for the present, but ones I don't need for work may languish ...) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> (Sorry for slow reponse and late reply..:/) +</I> +Thanks for your inputs. Decision was taken some weeks ago and we will +follow it for now. You may have very good reasons on your side, please +respect ours. + + +-- +Anne +<A HREF="http://www.mageia.org">http://www.mageia.org</A> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="003116.html">[Mageia-dev] RPM5 AND MAGEIA +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="003117.html">[Mageia-dev] gsoap package and license issue +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#3118">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#3118">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#3118">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#3118">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |