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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001229.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001229.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e6bd3f266 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001229.html @@ -0,0 +1,277 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101015220014.d63946d3.gato2707%40yahoo.com.mx%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001230.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Fernando Parra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101015220014.d63946d3.gato2707%40yahoo.com.mx%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 05:00:14 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001230.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1229">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1229">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1229">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1229">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:42:03 +0100 +Buchan Milne <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bgmilne-tobu8poG+uhSwrhanM7KvQ at public.gmane.org</A>> wrote: + +Hi Buchan. + +First, I believe this is the beginning of a long term friendship, I really love your answers, Is very clear for myself we aren't agree in a lot of points, but both are looking the same thing, we only differ in the method. + +><i> On Friday, 15 October 2010 03:48:56 Fernando Parra wrote: +</I>><i> > Hi everybody. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I feel that the concept of a new way, as it exist into my mind is not +</I>><i> > completely understood. Let me try to re-explain again. Please be patient +</I>><i> > and excuses any mistake with my English (I'm totally out of practice): +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I'm talking about to liberate to novice/novel/without experience user, +</I>><i> > about concepts like backports, but I'm not talking about +</I>><i> > close/disappear/eliminate/forgot backports. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Why? because a big share of them will arrive from a very different +</I>><i> > environment (especially windows), and as you now, in there those concepts +</I>><i> > are not only estrange, they simply don't exists. When a Windows user +</I>><i> > wants/needs to update a program, as much the only thing that he/she must +</I>><i> > do is unninstall the old/previous version and then install the new one. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > What programs? Following the same idea, about these kind of users, we +</I>><i> > should ask: what programs they usually upgrade? The answer could be found +</I>><i> > asking to the user's themselves, but certainly could be another ways. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Why not all backports? Reason 1: Because a lot of them don't care about the +</I>><i> > new version of CUPS (in example) or the new version of Maxima (I'm sure +</I>><i> > there are a lot clearly examples). Reason 2: Because there are packages +</I>><i> > that may causes some incidents after upgrade them. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > How we can solve this situation? Offering a default automatic upgrade for a +</I>><i> > small group of packages, especially when they change in an important way, +</I>><i> > in example Firefox 3.6x 3.6x+ or to 4.x +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > With this in mind: +</I>><i> > > What aspects of the Mandriva backports solution are not satisfactory? +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > -The fact that not everything is available as a backport? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Not all are in backports, more these users don't want/understand a big +</I>><i> > share of them +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So, we must "dumb down" everything, and not provide openldap backports for +</I>><i> people running servers who want a convenient way to run the software version +</I>><i> that will allow them to file bugs upstream (OpenLDAP team doesn't respond to +</I>><i> bugs filed on non-current releases)? +</I> +Specially here the answer is obvious: The novice doesn't now what is OpenLDAP! and maybe he wont hear about it for the rest of his life. New versions of OpenLDAP should be stay available in the backports repository, not as an automatic available upgrade. + +><i> +</I>><i> > > -That users don't know how to request a backport? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > That is true, more, they don't want to learn about that, they only want a +</I>><i> > new version of their favourite program. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What do we do in the case where a new version of some software is available, +</I>><i> and has been sent to cooker? How do we decide whether it should go to +</I>><i> backports or not? And for which releases? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> (FYI, for Mandriva users can typically request backports in bugzilla or on +</I>><i> IRC, but we may need better means). +</I>><i> +</I> +Ok, first at all, we must deicide what packages (not all of them!) will be at the Rolling Ligth model. After that, all this packages must have an appropriate path. + +><i> > > -That too many backports are available? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > This is matter of who are revising backports, for novice? Yes there are to +</I>><i> > many. For the geek or the expert? Maybe never there will enough of them. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > > -That all users don't get them by default? +</I>><i> > > -That users doing network installs by default don't get the backport on +</I>><i> > > initial installation? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > No, they are not get them if we will use a potentially problematic +</I>><i> > repository. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > > -That users aren't aware of backports? +</I>><i> > > -Something else? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Panic? Fear? Baal, Luzbel and other demons in their minds? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > > Technically speaking? +</I>><i> > > Less than 'urpmi --searchmedia Backports chromium' ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > If I was a novice my answer will be: What hell is that? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This was a response to 'users must do less', not 'it must be very easy'. At +</I>><i> present, users need to do just one thing. We can fix the ease of doing that +</I>><i> one thing, if we understand the problem correctly. +</I> +Some times easy doesn't means "do less", I think in this particular case must means Understandable. + +><i> +</I>><i> I note you chose to leave out: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > Or, should it be more obvious in rpmdrake or similar? How about +</I>><i> > > commenting on my proposal for UI change in rpmdrake making backports +</I>><i> > > more obvious? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The proposal I refer to is: +</I>><i> " +</I>><i> Now, maybe the user interface needs to be improved. For example, maybe there +</I>><i> should be no dropdown box, but instead when searching for a package by name, +</I>><i> it should show you all the versions: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> ============================================================================ +</I>><i> Find: | digikam | In: ->Graphical applications |By: ->Package Name +</I>><i> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- +</I>><i> Package| |Status | Action +</I>><i> +digikam |Security update recommended |Update | +</I>><i> - 1.3.0-1mdv |Installed |Uninstall | +</I>><i> - 1.3.0-1.1mdv |Security Update |Update | +</I>><i> - 1.4.0-4mdv |Unsupported upgrade (backport) |Upgrade | +</I>><i> +</I>><i> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- +</I>><i> digikam - A KDE ........ +</I>><i> +</I>><i> ============================================================================= +</I>><i> " +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Further, we could have some settings regarding what the user's preference is, +</I>><i> and possibly even per-package. For example, maybe the user would not like only +</I>><i> updates by default, except for chromium and pidgin where they want backports. +</I>><i> Or, maybe another user wants all backports, except OpenOffice.org, where they +</I>><i> just want updates. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > Again, before we can decide what *more* we should do (what significant +</I>><i> > > resources we need to commit), maybe we should first understand why the +</I>><i> > > existing features (which have significant effort behind them) are not +</I>><i> > > resulting in user satisfaction. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > More and more reasons to prepare very carefully our offer. All we here +</I>><i> > appreciate those efforts and there are no way to send them to trash +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > > Personally I think a poll without educating everyone about what exactly +</I>><i> > > each choice would mean is useless. We first need to elaborate detailed +</I>><i> > > alternatives before anyone can make an informed choice. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > IMHO, a democracy without education is not democracy, is populism. I agree +</I>><i> > at all, we need first elaborate a well structured alternatives and then, +</I>><i> > explicitly after inform and educate our community we can run a poll, or +</I>><i> > prepare a council, or any other appropriated way. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > > backports should be supported for security patches and bug fixes just +</I>><i> > > like the main packages (if not instead of the main packages). +</I>><i> > > Of course the security patch could be simply provided by backporting a +</I>><i> > > newer version of the package, no need to make patches for each version. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > That is essential, any upgrade must be supported (other valid reason for an +</I>><i> > small group of packages). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Note that this can be difficult. For example, if (say) 2010.1 has shipped with +</I>><i> samba 3.5.3, and let's say we shipped samba 3.5.5 in backports, now a security +</I>><i> update is required, updates provides 3.5.3-1.1mdv with a patch, but 3.5.6 +</I>><i> doesn't build without substantial work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now, in order to provide a rapid update, the maintainer now needs to either: +</I>><i> -apply the patch to 3.5.5 and ship this to cooker and backports, and later +</I>><i> work on 3.5.6 for cooker, and then send it to backports again +</I>><i> -work on 3.5.6 until it works, and leave users without a security update for a +</I>><i> few days +</I>><i> +</I>><i> These decisions have quite an impact on the cost of supporting the distro ... +</I> +Again, IHMO, these kind of packages (samba, nfs, cups, etc.) now are in the main repository, and of course they must be frozen, except for security updates, and if a new version occurs, it should be in backports repository or in Cauldron or at any place that will be appropriated. +><i> +</I>><i> > > What I mean is basically when new updates get presented (which would +</I>><i> > > include new backports) the user could untick specific packages (as is +</I>><i> > > possible now) but also have a second tick-box to store the choice +</I>><i> > > permanently in the skip.list. +</I>><i> > > This would give the user more choice of which packages he wants to always +</I>><i> > > update to the newest version and wich ones he/she prefers to keep frozen +</I>><i> > > at the same version. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Please try to explain that to my grandma, or maybe you could be lucky with +</I>><i> > some of my students. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> How easy this is to use depends on the UI. For example, the updates window +</I>><i> could be reduced to be "Apply all recommended updates", "Apply only security +</I>><i> updates", and "Advanced", which would show the list of packages to update (and +</I>><i> provide options similar to the above, but slightly different). Your grandma +</I>><i> shouldn't click the "Advanced" button. +</I> +If my grandma watch the word "Advanced", she simply call me by phone and order me: Come here right now!. + +><i> +</I>><i> Regards, +</I>><i> Buchan +</I>><i> +</I> +Let me relate a true history (and it isn't a joke): few years ago, I was a technical support manager in an international bank, my main task was to have running all time, all computers in the bank (2000). When my guys were responding to a request for support, and when asked: +What happened? the first response was: +I did nothing! +Okay, a message appeared on the screen? +Oh yes, but did not understand, then I hit the OK button. +What was wrote in the Message? +I'm not a technician, I didn't read it. +Mmmm, and now what is the problem? +Are you blind?, I can not start Word! (Or print or whatever) + +I heard hundreds of times these kind of absurd conversations. +The basic/novice user doesn't read anything, doesn't request anything to some like a bugzilla, If you show on his screen some like your proposal, he usually take one of two different ways: 1) Check all the options or maybe worst 2) Close the window and he will think: "Oh hell, Why Linux is so hard?" + +Anyway, after decide what packages will be in the Rolling Light, The OS must be gentle with the user and show a Window with a Message like that: + +There are available a new version of Firefox(as an example). Do you want to install it? +NO, Maybe Later, Show me more information, Yes + +Please take in mind that we are trying to get a considerable number of new users. If we just keep doing things like today, we will certainly have new users, but they probably come from other distributions. +I'm not sure of the number of distributions that exist today, but I remember that there are more than 500. I think that despite how good it might be, it is in fact a form of cannibalism. + +IHMO before to discuss what are the technical conflicts, we need to evaluate the benefits of any proposal focusing the point of view on what the users needs/wants. + +As we said in Mexico: My home is your home. + +Regards from México. + +-- +Fernando Parra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx</A>> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001230.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1229">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1229">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1229">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1229">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001230.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001230.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3667fd4a1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001230.html @@ -0,0 +1,118 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101016065606.GA11549%40maude.comedia.it%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001229.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001233.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Luca Berra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101016065606.GA11549%40maude.comedia.it%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">bluca at vodka.it + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 08:56:06 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001229.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001233.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1230">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1230">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1230">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1230">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:00:14PM -0500, Fernando Parra wrote: +><i>The basic/novice user doesn't read anything, +</I>remove basic/novice from the sentence and i will agree ;) + +><i> doesn't request anything to some like a bugzilla, +</I>but give him a forum and he probably will + +><i> If you show on his screen some like your proposal, he usually take one of two different ways: 1) Check all the options or maybe worst 2) Close the window and he will think: "Oh hell, Why Linux is so hard?" +</I>then we shall abuse the user like most windows installers do, and +install all sort of crap with preselected checkboxes? + +><i>Anyway, after decide what packages will be in the Rolling Light +</I>was the model decided yet? + +><i>The OS must be gentle with the user and show a Window with a Message like that: +</I>><i> +</I>><i>There are available a new version of Firefox(as an example). Do you want to install it? +</I>><i>NO, Maybe Later, Show me more information, Yes +</I>popups like this are not gentle, they are annoying, users will try to +get rid of them as soon as they can and go on with what they were doing. + +><i>Please take in mind that we are trying to get a considerable number of new users. If we just keep doing things like today, we will certainly have new users, but they probably come from other distributions. +</I> +Seriuosly speaking, i'd like to make a distinguo: +The real basic(*) user just uses a computer to get her work done, he +does not give a damn about a new version of firefox, kde or wathever, as +long as the version she is using is functioning. +A popup stating about a new version will probably cause a call to her +son, either before or after having got rid of it, depending on the +moment. +The problem with this kind of user is getting them to apply security +updates. + +(*) i won't call them novice because they might have been using a +computer for a good deal of time. + +Another kind of user is amused by computers, he will read some +semi-technical magazines, every leaflet from big electronic shop, some +news site, he will buy a lot of gadgets, and will try to install new +versions of everything, just to see how they work. +This user is probably interested of seeing backports of firefox, gnome, +kde, Ooo, and such. +He will probably not bother with bugzilla (why the **** do i have to +input all this crap, cant they just provide me with gizmo 1.99.2.3 like +every windows user has?), but probably will do such a request on a forum +like media. + +we should not mix the needs of this two categories, neither would like +it. + +btw, we also have users interested in backports of stuff like openldap, +samba or such, these users will actually contribute to the technical +making of the distro, either by using bugzilla when they find bugs or +actually doing packaging work. Ignoring the will of such users will, +sooner or later, force mageia to employ paid personnel to do packaging +work. + +L. + +-- +Luca Berra -- <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca at vodka.it</A> +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001229.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001233.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1230">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1230">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1230">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1230">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001231.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001231.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5b14829fb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001231.html @@ -0,0 +1,135 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201010161152.27465.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001243.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001235.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Renaud MICHEL</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201010161152.27465.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">r.h.michel+mageia at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 11:52:27 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001243.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001235.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1231">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1231">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1231">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1231">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello +On samedi 16 octobre 2010 at 05:00, Fernando Parra wrote : +><i> > On Friday, 15 October 2010 03:48:56 Fernando Parra wrote: +</I>><i> > So, we must "dumb down" everything, and not provide openldap backports +</I>><i> > for people running servers who want a convenient way to run the +</I>><i> > software version that will allow them to file bugs upstream (OpenLDAP +</I>><i> > team doesn't respond to bugs filed on non-current releases)? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Specially here the answer is obvious: The novice doesn't now what is +</I>><i> OpenLDAP! and maybe he wont hear about it for the rest of his life. New +</I>><i> versions of OpenLDAP should be stay available in the backports +</I>><i> repository, not as an automatic available upgrade. +</I> +Well, for example like OpenLDAP it is not a problem, because only users that +need it will install it, and those that might need it are most likely aware +what it implies to upgrade it to a newer version. So it will not bother +other users if it is in backports or even updates, because as they won't +have it installed, they won't be proposed to update. + +It is more of a concern for things like cups or dbus, which most users will +use without knowing it, and won't know how to fix if it breaks (not even +knowing which package actually broke). + +><i> > What do we do in the case where a new version of some software is +</I>><i> > available, and has been sent to cooker? How do we decide whether it +</I>><i> > should go to backports or not? And for which releases? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > (FYI, for Mandriva users can typically request backports in bugzilla or +</I>><i> > on IRC, but we may need better means). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Ok, first at all, we must deicide what packages (not all of them!) will +</I>><i> be at the Rolling Ligth model. After that, all this packages must have +</I>><i> an appropriate path. +</I> +I don't understand what you mean by "appropriate path". + +I think we should not decide before hand what packages will be backported, +we should maybe have a (short) list of packages that must not be backported +(like glibc) and then have backports either when contributors are willing to +make (and test) them, or on request. + +Maybe we could also have a (short also) list of packages that we should +really try (the packaging team could decide to dedicate some of his +resources to that) to backport to the latest stable release, and maybe the +previous latest. +Such packages would be for example firefox or OOo, packages that we know are +used by many (most) users, and many users are likely to want a newer +version. + +><i> Anyway, after decide what packages will be in the Rolling Light, The OS +</I>><i> must be gentle with the user and show a Window with a Message like that: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There are available a new version of Firefox(as an example). Do you want +</I>><i> to install it? NO, Maybe Later, Show me more information, Yes +</I> +A little OT, but: + +Dialog windows should (almost) never have yes/no or ok/cancel choices, +because when an user see a yes/ok choice, he generally interpret it as "yes, +I want to keep on doing what I was doing". (and I know I have done it some +times myself) + +In your example, the No/yes should be labelled something like "keep current +version" and "install new version". + + +cheers +-- +Renaud Michel +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001243.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001235.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1231">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1231">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1231">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1231">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001232.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001232.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e0caa55c7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001232.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Q%3A%20how%20long%20should%20we%20able%20to%20upgrade%20from%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101016113351.GA1976%40maude.comedia.it%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001235.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001236.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from?</H1> + <B>Luca Berra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Q%3A%20how%20long%20should%20we%20able%20to%20upgrade%20from%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101016113351.GA1976%40maude.comedia.it%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from?">bluca at vodka.it + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 13:33:51 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001235.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001236.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1232">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1232">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1232">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1232">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> +short explanation: +I maintain some package that has multiple spec and initscript hacks to +allow upgrading since 2005LE to current cooker (i.e. postfix). I really +believe it is too far and that some should be pruned. +The question is, how long should we maintain suck +hacks in packages? + +-- +Luca Berra -- <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca at vodka.it</A> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001235.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001236.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1232">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1232">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1232">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1232">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001233.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001233.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..80159923b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001233.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9cgfo%24kqm%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001230.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001237.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9cgfo%24kqm%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 17:31:04 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001230.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001237.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1233">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1233">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1233">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1233">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-10-16 02:56, Luca Berra a écrit : +><i> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:00:14PM -0500, Fernando Parra wrote: +</I>>><i> The basic/novice user doesn't read anything, +</I>><i> remove basic/novice from the sentence and i will agree ;) +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> doesn't request anything to some like a bugzilla, +</I>><i> but give him a forum and he probably will +</I>><i> +</I> +This statement I totally agree with! If a user is told to submit in +bugzilla, I find that they will not do it. Reporting to bugzilla for a +user, is one more level of serious commitment on their part and most +will not want to commit themselves to it. + +However, if they can report to a forum, this is different. Users view +forums as community involvement with community feedback. They may be ask +to test out the problem and report back on the result (just like in +bugzilla) but they know that other community members will be there to +lend a hand and support. + +If we are going to be really interested in quashing bugs with a lot of +community involvement, IMHO, I think that we should offer + +-- bugzilla for the enthused and commited users. These people are +interested on reporting bugs the right way and will replicated and help +in debugging. + +-- but for ordinary users, we could offer them a "Report a bug" forum +where they can report a bug; the community could then replicated the +bug; have a "Bug-ambassador" or "bug-reporter" or .... who could then +submit it officially on bugzilla. Tracking of that particular bug could +then be the responsibility of the "Bug-ambassador"; once the bug is +quashed, the "Bug-ambassador" could report back to the "Report a bug" +forum of the bug fix and thank the community for their help. This would +help validate the user who reported the bug and make him/her feel like a +part of the contributing team. + +IMHO, this would work a lot better for the majority of users who do not +want to commit to any more than reporting the bug; the devs would get a +more constant stream of bug submissions by "Bug-ambassadors" who are +able to triage submitted bugs on the forum. + +Doing it this way would still make bugzilla the only place where devs +would go to pick up bug information and the "Bug-ambassadors" would be +the people who triage the bugs at the forum level. + +Marc + +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001230.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001237.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1233">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1233">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1233">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1233">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001234.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001234.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1941e5ed0 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001234.html @@ -0,0 +1,158 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101016104131.491eca36.gato2707%40yahoo.com.mx%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001241.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001243.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Fernando Parra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101016104131.491eca36.gato2707%40yahoo.com.mx%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 17:41:31 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001241.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001243.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1234">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1234">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1234">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1234">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 08:56:06 +0200 +Luca Berra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca-1WC7Or56Oao at public.gmane.org</A>> wrote: + +><i> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:00:14PM -0500, Fernando Parra wrote: +</I>><i> >The basic/novice user doesn't read anything, +</I>><i> remove basic/novice from the sentence and i will agree ;) +</I>><i> +</I> +Are you agree with some like that? +Only the geek/expert/professional users read? + +><i> > doesn't request anything to some like a bugzilla, +</I>><i> but give him a forum and he probably will +</I> +Here I'm not completely sure, How many forums, blogs, etc. about software are there (including Windows, Mac and others)? and How many users they have? At present time the number of pc's in the entire world are estimated in 1,500 millions, the number of users can be estimated without force the numbers as a twice of this number. Worst, we are in the Wikipedia age; in example, when I request an investigation to my students, about any theme. I need strictly keep out Wikipedia (Oh well, yes Encarta too) as a valid source. + +><i> +</I>><i> > If you show on his screen some like your proposal, he usually take one of two different ways: 1) Check all the options or maybe worst 2) Close the window and he will think: "Oh hell, Why Linux is so hard?" +</I>><i> then we shall abuse the user like most windows installers do, and +</I>><i> install all sort of crap with preselected checkboxes? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >Anyway, after decide what packages will be in the Rolling Light +</I>><i> was the model decided yet? +</I>><i> +</I> +As you may watch, this discussion is on the way. + +><i> >The OS must be gentle with the user and show a Window with a Message like that: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >There are available a new version of Firefox(as an example). Do you want to install it? +</I>><i> >NO, Maybe Later, Show me more information, Yes +</I>><i> popups like this are not gentle, they are annoying, users will try to +</I>><i> get rid of them as soon as they can and go on with what they were doing. +</I>><i> +</I> +Ok, maybe is no quite gentle for some one, but it is the usually way, speaking about Windows users. + +><i> >Please take in mind that we are trying to get a considerable number of new users. If we just keep doing things like today, we will certainly have new users, but they probably come from other distributions. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Seriuosly speaking, i'd like to make a distinguo: +</I>><i> The real basic(*) user just uses a computer to get her work done, he +</I>><i> does not give a damn about a new version of firefox, kde or wathever, as +</I>><i> long as the version she is using is functioning. +</I>><i> A popup stating about a new version will probably cause a call to her +</I>><i> son, either before or after having got rid of it, depending on the +</I>><i> moment. +</I>><i> The problem with this kind of user is getting them to apply security +</I>><i> updates. +</I> +Are you sure? I'll try to explain me with a practical example: I really don't remember what of the versions of the Open Office 3.x branch open the road to read and write the MS Office 2007 (docx, etc) but when its happen, it was "the great success" How many users really need this particular "goodie", I think a big share of them! + +><i> +</I>><i> (*) i won't call them novice because they might have been using a +</I>><i> computer for a good deal of time. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Another kind of user is amused by computers, he will read some +</I>><i> semi-technical magazines, every leaflet from big electronic shop, some +</I>><i> news site, he will buy a lot of gadgets, and will try to install new +</I>><i> versions of everything, just to see how they work. +</I>><i> This user is probably interested of seeing backports of firefox, gnome, +</I>><i> kde, Ooo, and such. +</I>><i> He will probably not bother with bugzilla (why the **** do i have to +</I>><i> input all this crap, cant they just provide me with gizmo 1.99.2.3 like +</I>><i> every windows user has?), but probably will do such a request on a forum +</I>><i> like media. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> we should not mix the needs of this two categories, neither would like +</I>><i> it. +</I> +Ok, I call these users "intermediate users" and here in Mexico we have an idiomatic expression for these situations: "El qué quiera azul celeste, ¡que le cueste!" A poor translation of that is: If someone want something special, pays for get it! +><i> +</I>><i> btw, we also have users interested in backports of stuff like openldap, +</I>><i> samba or such, these users will actually contribute to the technical +</I>><i> making of the distro, either by using bugzilla when they find bugs or +</I>><i> actually doing packaging work. Ignoring the will of such users will, +</I>><i> sooner or later, force mageia to employ paid personnel to do packaging +</I>><i> work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> L. +</I>><i> +</I> +I disagree here, a big share of the users are sick (including me) of an illness called "versionitis gravis". Good I'm sick!:) As I can see there are two variants of the illness: + +Open Source Type, we are totally involved in each new release of our favourite distro, there is no matter how many times we make a promise of stay in the same release for at least one year, at the end of the road, we find a "valid" excuse for install and use the new version. + +Privative Type: There is no matter if their favourite music player is going on, each time than appear a new version the users download and install it. In example, a lot of Open Source apps follow the same politics in a privative OS, at this time I remember: Firefox, Open Office, and Lazarus, but I really don't use Windows at this time. These apps shows in a Window a message announcing the new version, and of course they showing a link to download them. + +This is in fact one of the big problems about malware contamination in Windows, indiscriminate downloading of programs enhanced by piracy practices of course. + +><i> -- +</I>><i> Luca Berra -- <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca-1WC7Or56Oao at public.gmane.org</A> +</I>><i> +</I> + +-- +Fernando Parra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx</A>> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001241.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001243.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1234">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1234">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1234">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1234">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001235.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001235.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2926ddd99 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001235.html @@ -0,0 +1,145 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101016110022.fef7dd67.gato2707%40yahoo.com.mx%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001231.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001232.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Fernando Parra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101016110022.fef7dd67.gato2707%40yahoo.com.mx%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 18:00:22 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001231.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001232.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1235">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1235">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1235">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1235">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 11:52:27 +0200 +Renaud MICHEL <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">r.h.michel+mageia-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org</A>> wrote: + +><i> Hello +</I>><i> On samedi 16 octobre 2010 at 05:00, Fernando Parra wrote : +</I>><i> > > On Friday, 15 October 2010 03:48:56 Fernando Parra wrote: +</I>><i> > > So, we must "dumb down" everything, and not provide openldap backports +</I>><i> > > for people running servers who want a convenient way to run the +</I>><i> > > software version that will allow them to file bugs upstream (OpenLDAP +</I>><i> > > team doesn't respond to bugs filed on non-current releases)? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Specially here the answer is obvious: The novice doesn't now what is +</I>><i> > OpenLDAP! and maybe he wont hear about it for the rest of his life. New +</I>><i> > versions of OpenLDAP should be stay available in the backports +</I>><i> > repository, not as an automatic available upgrade. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, for example like OpenLDAP it is not a problem, because only users that +</I>><i> need it will install it, and those that might need it are most likely aware +</I>><i> what it implies to upgrade it to a newer version. So it will not bother +</I>><i> other users if it is in backports or even updates, because as they won't +</I>><i> have it installed, they won't be proposed to update. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It is more of a concern for things like cups or dbus, which most users will +</I>><i> use without knowing it, and won't know how to fix if it breaks (not even +</I>><i> knowing which package actually broke). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > What do we do in the case where a new version of some software is +</I>><i> > > available, and has been sent to cooker? How do we decide whether it +</I>><i> > > should go to backports or not? And for which releases? +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > (FYI, for Mandriva users can typically request backports in bugzilla or +</I>><i> > > on IRC, but we may need better means). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Ok, first at all, we must deicide what packages (not all of them!) will +</I>><i> > be at the Rolling Ligth model. After that, all this packages must have +</I>><i> > an appropriate path. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't understand what you mean by "appropriate path". +</I>><i> +</I> +Well, if we are talking about a new model, I think we need to redefine what will be the way that's Mageia offer these particular (Rolling Light) packages. I'm not closed to any method in particular. + +><i> I think we should not decide before hand what packages will be backported, +</I>><i> we should maybe have a (short) list of packages that must not be backported +</I>><i> (like glibc) and then have backports either when contributors are willing to +</I>><i> make (and test) them, or on request. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Maybe we could also have a (short also) list of packages that we should +</I>><i> really try (the packaging team could decide to dedicate some of his +</I>><i> resources to that) to backport to the latest stable release, and maybe the +</I>><i> previous latest. +</I>><i> Such packages would be for example firefox or OOo, packages that we know are +</I>><i> used by many (most) users, and many users are likely to want a newer +</I>><i> version. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Anyway, after decide what packages will be in the Rolling Light, The OS +</I>><i> > must be gentle with the user and show a Window with a Message like that: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > There are available a new version of Firefox(as an example). Do you want +</I>><i> > to install it? NO, Maybe Later, Show me more information, Yes +</I>><i> +</I>><i> A little OT, but: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Dialog windows should (almost) never have yes/no or ok/cancel choices, +</I>><i> because when an user see a yes/ok choice, he generally interpret it as "yes, +</I>><i> I want to keep on doing what I was doing". (and I know I have done it some +</I>><i> times myself) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In your example, the No/yes should be labelled something like "keep current +</I>><i> version" and "install new version". +</I>><i> +</I> +Ok, as more clear options, as it will be better. + +><i> +</I>><i> cheers +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Renaud Michel +</I>><i> +</I> +Regards from Mexico +-- +Fernando Parra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx</A>> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001231.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001232.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1235">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1235">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1235">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1235">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001236.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001236.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6d32825bf --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001236.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Q%3A%20how%20long%20should%20we%20able%20to%20upgrade%20from%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimVV6GyaM%2BMmxUi6dv3oG6hqJHM271nx3LdQybt%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001232.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from?</H1> + <B>Thierry Vignaud</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Q%3A%20how%20long%20should%20we%20able%20to%20upgrade%20from%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimVV6GyaM%2BMmxUi6dv3oG6hqJHM271nx3LdQybt%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from?">thierry.vignaud at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 18:07:54 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001232.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1236">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1236">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1236">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1236">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 16 October 2010 13:33, Luca Berra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca at vodka.it</A>> wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> I maintain some package that has multiple spec and initscript hacks to +</I>><i> allow upgrading since 2005LE to current cooker (i.e. postfix). I really +</I>><i> believe it is too far and that some should be pruned. +</I>><i> The question is, how long should we maintain suck +</I>><i> hacks in packages? +</I> +2005LE??? +even in MandrivaLinux, you should have care only about 2008.0, 2009.1, +2010.x, CS4 & MES5 +See <A HREF="http://www2.mandriva.com/en/support/lifecycle/">http://www2.mandriva.com/en/support/lifecycle/</A> +As for Mageia, I would say we shouldn't care about the past but for +the smooth upgrade path. +Aka we shouldn't care if packages aren't backportable on anything +older than 2010.1 but we should care about updating mdv +2009.1/2010.x/CS4/MES5 to mageia which should help packaging quite a +lot. +My 2 €cents +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001232.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1236">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1236">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1236">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1236">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001237.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001237.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5f358b0e9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001237.html @@ -0,0 +1,136 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DFnWy8YtDV4SDMP3pN9-Gfm_5ytp_2zTm%3DZ4EC%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001233.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001238.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Ahmad Samir</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DFnWy8YtDV4SDMP3pN9-Gfm_5ytp_2zTm%3DZ4EC%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 18:36:51 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001233.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001238.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1237">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1237">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1237">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1237">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 16 October 2010 17:31, Marc Paré <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: +><i> Le 2010-10-16 02:56, Luca Berra a écrit : +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:00:14PM -0500, Fernando Parra wrote: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> The basic/novice user doesn't read anything, +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> remove basic/novice from the sentence and i will agree ;) +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> doesn't request anything to some like a bugzilla, +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> but give him a forum and he probably will +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This statement I totally agree with! If a user is told to submit in +</I>><i> bugzilla, I find that they will not do it. Reporting to bugzilla for a user, +</I>><i> is one more level of serious commitment on their part and most will not want +</I>><i> to commit themselves to it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> However, if they can report to a forum, this is different. Users view forums +</I>><i> as community involvement with community feedback. They may be ask to test +</I>><i> out the problem and report back on the result (just like in bugzilla) but +</I>><i> they know that other community members will be there to lend a hand and +</I>><i> support. +</I> +And other community members are there in bugzilla to to lend a hand +and support (although a bit different kind of support as bugzilla's +have stricter rules, more organised). + +><i> +</I>><i> If we are going to be really interested in quashing bugs with a lot of +</I>><i> community involvement, IMHO, I think that we should offer +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- bugzilla for the enthused and commited users. These people are interested +</I>><i> on reporting bugs the right way and will replicated and help in debugging. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- but for ordinary users, we could offer them a "Report a bug" forum where +</I>><i> they can report a bug; the community could then replicated the bug; have a +</I>><i> "Bug-ambassador" or "bug-reporter" or .... who could then submit it +</I>><i> officially on bugzilla. Tracking of that particular bug could then be the +</I>><i> responsibility of the "Bug-ambassador"; once the bug is quashed, the +</I>><i> "Bug-ambassador" could report back to the "Report a bug" forum of the bug +</I>><i> fix and thank the community for their help. This would help validate the +</I>><i> user who reported the bug and make him/her feel like a part of the +</I>><i> contributing team. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> IMHO, this would work a lot better for the majority of users who do not want +</I>><i> to commit to any more than reporting the bug; the devs would get a more +</I>><i> constant stream of bug submissions by "Bug-ambassadors" who are able to +</I>><i> triage submitted bugs on the forum. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Doing it this way would still make bugzilla the only place where devs would +</I>><i> go to pick up bug information and the "Bug-ambassadors" would be the people +</I>><i> who triage the bugs at the forum level. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Marc +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I> +Backport requests are a special case as they're usually a 2-line +report "hey, could you backport the latest version of package foo to +<stable release I am running>?", so basically anyone can do it, either +the user or someone on his behalf. + +But generally reporting bugs by proxy is always a bad idea, unless the +guy who'll play middle-man can reproduce the exact same bug on his own +box. You see, triage team / package maintainer / dev will ask for info +about the bug, more than once depending on the bug itself; now Mr. +middle-man will have to go to and fro a lot of times, taking info from +the user and posting it in bugzilla then taking questions/info from +the bugzilla and conveying it to the user; now that's a tedious and +tiresome job that's very prone to failure. (it's like a friend being +sick and instead of him going to the doctor he sends you on his behalf +because "you know the symptoms" :)). + +It's much better to help the user formulate a useful bug report, +that's easier / more productive for all involved parties. + +-- +Ahmad Samir +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001233.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001238.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1237">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1237">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1237">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1237">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001238.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001238.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..dce8bb567 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001238.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9cuep%24rf7%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001237.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001239.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9cuep%24rf7%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 21:29:29 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001237.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001239.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1238">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1238">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1238">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1238">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-10-16 12:36, Ahmad Samir a écrit : + +><i> +</I>><i> But generally reporting bugs by proxy is always a bad idea, unless the +</I>><i> guy who'll play middle-man can reproduce the exact same bug on his own +</I>><i> box. You see, triage team / package maintainer / dev will ask for info +</I>><i> about the bug, more than once depending on the bug itself; now Mr. +</I>><i> middle-man will have to go to and fro a lot of times, taking info from +</I>><i> the user and posting it in bugzilla then taking questions/info from +</I>><i> the bugzilla and conveying it to the user; now that's a tedious and +</I>><i> tiresome job that's very prone to failure. (it's like a friend being +</I>><i> sick and instead of him going to the doctor he sends you on his behalf +</I>><i> because "you know the symptoms" :)). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It's much better to help the user formulate a useful bug report, +</I>><i> that's easier / more productive for all involved parties. +</I>><i> +</I> +There would be no middle man. Once the middle-man could replicate the +bug and verify the bug with other users, then the middle-man would +submit to bugzilla. That's it. From there on, the middle-man will take +care of testing requests from devs. + +As far as reporting back to the original user who reported the bug, as +an extra gesture of kindness, the middle-man would just post on the +"Report a bug" forum that the bug has been quashed or is still under +review ... but not to the user but to the "Report a bug" forum. + +The idea is to keep the flow of possible bug reports coming in an +organised way. The middle-man would have to be someone with a little +more experience than that of a new user and also someone who has an +interest in working this way. We will get more bug reports from users by +keeping it simple and easy. + +Marc + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001237.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001239.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1238">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1238">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1238">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1238">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001239.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001239.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2d982c08d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001239.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201010162152.52782.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001238.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001240.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Renaud MICHEL</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201010162152.52782.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">r.h.michel+mageia at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 21:52:52 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001238.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001240.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1239">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1239">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1239">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1239">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On samedi 16 octobre 2010 at 21:29, Marc Paré wrote : +><i> There would be no middle man. Once the middle-man could replicate the +</I>><i> bug and verify the bug with other users, then the middle-man would +</I>><i> submit to bugzilla. That's it. From there on, the middle-man will take +</I>><i> care of testing requests from devs. +</I> +That would only work for pure software bugs. +If the bug is hardware related, it is unlikely that the "middle man" will be +able to reproduce it. For those we really need the input from the real bug +reporter. + +And for software bugs, the "middle man" would have to reproduce the software +environment of the reporter, which may be complicated if he installed +software from third party (or worse, proprietary software). +Sometimes the problem is obvious and only related to a single package, and +for such case a forum with some contributors reproducing the bug and then +submitting a bug report may work. +But if the problem is related to a particular combination of packages then +the "middle man" could spend a considerable amount of time replicating the +reporter particular configuration before he can actually reproduce the bug. + +I think it may work if those "bug friends" (don't remember who proposed that +name) only take for themselves the simple, one package, software only bugs, +and suggest to the reporter to create himself a bugreport (eventually +providing assistance if the reporter has never done it before) describing +his problem, because the devs will really need his feedback first hand. +That forum would be an easier entry point than bugzilla for users not +familiar with bugreports. + +-- +Renaud Michel +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001238.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? 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+</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001242.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1240">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1240">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1240">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1240">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 21:52, Renaud MICHEL +<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">r.h.michel+mageia at gmail.com</A><r.h.michel%<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">2Bmageia at gmail.com</A>> +><i> wrote: +</I> +><i> I think it may work if those "bug friends" (don't remember who proposed +</I>><i> that +</I>><i> name) only take for themselves the simple, one package, software only bugs, +</I>><i> and suggest to the reporter to create himself a bugreport (eventually +</I>><i> providing assistance if the reporter has never done it before) +</I> + +yes, it is mainly there that 'help with followup' is needed. +If that help is well done, a certain number of the helped could become +helpers later on. + +describing +><i> his problem, because the devs will really need his feedback first hand. +</I>><i> That forum would be an easier entry point than bugzilla for users not +</I>><i> familiar with bugreports. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Renaud Michel +</I>><i> +</I> + + +-- + +Frederic +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20101016/9e1b0b84/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001239.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? 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+</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001234.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1241">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1241">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1241">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1241">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-10-16 15:52, Renaud MICHEL a écrit : +><i> On samedi 16 octobre 2010 at 21:29, Marc Paré wrote : +</I>>><i> There would be no middle man. Once the middle-man could replicate the +</I>>><i> bug and verify the bug with other users, then the middle-man would +</I>>><i> submit to bugzilla. That's it. From there on, the middle-man will take +</I>>><i> care of testing requests from devs. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That would only work for pure software bugs. +</I>><i> If the bug is hardware related, it is unlikely that the "middle man" will be +</I>><i> able to reproduce it. For those we really need the input from the real bug +</I>><i> reporter. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And for software bugs, the "middle man" would have to reproduce the software +</I>><i> environment of the reporter, which may be complicated if he installed +</I>><i> software from third party (or worse, proprietary software). +</I>><i> Sometimes the problem is obvious and only related to a single package, and +</I>><i> for such case a forum with some contributors reproducing the bug and then +</I>><i> submitting a bug report may work. +</I>><i> But if the problem is related to a particular combination of packages then +</I>><i> the "middle man" could spend a considerable amount of time replicating the +</I>><i> reporter particular configuration before he can actually reproduce the bug. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think it may work if those "bug friends" (don't remember who proposed that +</I>><i> name) only take for themselves the simple, one package, software only bugs, +</I>><i> and suggest to the reporter to create himself a bugreport (eventually +</I>><i> providing assistance if the reporter has never done it before) describing +</I>><i> his problem, because the devs will really need his feedback first hand. +</I>><i> That forum would be an easier entry point than bugzilla for users not +</I>><i> familiar with bugreports. +</I>><i> +</I> +Yes you are perfectly right. This is where the the bug report would be +ramped up to the bugzilla stage, and at the point, the reporter would +have obviously shown an interest in the resolution/fix of the bug. This +would in effect would create a mentorhsip/reporter relationship and a +great training opportunity for the reporter. We would then have, by +default, a mentorship programme in the "Report a bug" forum that may +eventually form other "bug friends" This would be a great opportunity +for Mageia to teach reporters how to use bugzilla. + +IMHO, this would still be a simple way of dealing with normal users who +do not want to involve themselves any more than reporting a bug. And for +those who develop a taste for furthering their knowledge of the process +of bug reporting, the "bug friend" could then mentor this person ... who +could eventually become a "bug friend" himself/herself. + +Marc + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001242.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001234.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1241">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1241">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1241">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1241">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001242.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001242.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1814d9667 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/001242.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9d2mf%24fm9%242%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001240.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001241.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9d2mf%24fm9%242%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Oct 16 22:41:51 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001240.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001241.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1242">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1242">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1242">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1242">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-10-16 16:08, Frederic Janssens a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 21:52, Renaud MICHEL +</I>><i> <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">r.h.michel+mageia at gmail.com</A> +</I>><i> <mailto:r.h.michel%<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">2Bmageia at gmail.com</A>>> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think it may work if those "bug friends" (don't remember who +</I>><i> proposed that +</I>><i> name) only take for themselves the simple, one package, software +</I>><i> only bugs, +</I>><i> and suggest to the reporter to create himself a bugreport (eventually +</I>><i> providing assistance if the reporter has never done it before) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> yes, it is mainly there that 'help with followup' is needed. +</I>><i> If that help is well done, a certain number of the helped could become +</I>><i> helpers later on. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> describing +</I>><i> his problem, because the devs will really need his feedback first hand. +</I>><i> That forum would be an easier entry point than bugzilla for users not +</I>><i> familiar with bugreports. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Renaud Michel +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Frederic +</I> +Thanks Frederic, my feeling also. + +Marc + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001240.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? 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+</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001231.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1243">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1243">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1243">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1243">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:41:31AM -0500, Fernando Parra wrote: +><i>On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 08:56:06 +0200 +</I>><i>Luca Berra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca-1WC7Or56Oao at public.gmane.org</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:00:14PM -0500, Fernando Parra wrote: +</I>>><i> >The basic/novice user doesn't read anything, +</I>>><i> remove basic/novice from the sentence and i will agree ;) +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i>Are you agree with some like that? +</I>><i>Only the geek/expert/professional users read? +</I>I think most people don't read, sometime even geek/expert/professional +don't. This is probably due to an overload of information, and trying to +create messages that are actually 'seen' by users is becoming a new +branch of science. + +>><i> > doesn't request anything to some like a bugzilla, +</I>>><i> but give him a forum and he probably will +</I>><i> +</I>><i>Here I'm not completely sure, How many forums, blogs, etc. about software are there (including Windows, Mac and others)? and How many users they have? At present time the number of pc's in the entire world are estimated in 1,500 millions, the number of users can be estimated without force the numbers as a twice of this number. Worst, we are in the Wikipedia age; in example, when I request an investigation to my students, about any theme. I need strictly keep out Wikipedia (Oh well, yes Encarta too) as a valid source. +</I> +Then it is difficult to do what user want, if we don't get any feedback. + +... +>><i> Seriuosly speaking, i'd like to make a distinguo: +</I>>><i> The real basic(*) user just uses a computer to get her work done, he +</I>>><i> does not give a damn about a new version of firefox, kde or wathever, as +</I>>><i> long as the version she is using is functioning. +</I>... +><i>Are you sure? I'll try to explain me with a practical example: I really don't remember what of the versions of the Open Office 3.x branch open the road to read and write the MS Office 2007 (docx, etc) but when its happen, it was "the great success" How many users really need this particular "goodie", I think a big share of them! +</I> +well i had in mind a real life example when i wrote the above +... +>><i> we should not mix the needs of this two categories, neither would like +</I>>><i> it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i>Ok, I call these users "intermediate users" and here in Mexico we have an idiomatic expression for these situations: "El qué quiera azul celeste, ¡que le cueste!" A poor translation of that is: If someone want something special, pays for get it! +</I>the above stands, these categories have different needs and whishes. + +>><i> btw, we also have users interested in backports of stuff like openldap, +</I>>><i> samba or such, these users will actually contribute to the technical +</I>>><i> making of the distro, either by using bugzilla when they find bugs or +</I>>><i> actually doing packaging work. Ignoring the will of such users will, +</I>>><i> sooner or later, force mageia to employ paid personnel to do packaging +</I>>><i> work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i>I disagree here, a big share of the users are sick (including me) of an illness called "versionitis gravis". Good I'm sick!:) As I can see there are two variants of the illness: +</I>I just meant that many people working on packaging are also using the +distro for running servers, so we are interested in server stuff, which +the average user wont' prolly give a sh@@@ about. + +L. + +-- +Luca Berra -- <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca at vodka.it</A> +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001234.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001231.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1243">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1243">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1243">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1243">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..386f6eba7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 16 October 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>16 October 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 05:00:14 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:32 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001230.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1230"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001232.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A><A NAME="1232"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001243.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1243"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001240.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1240"> </A> +<I>Frederic Janssens +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001231.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1231"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001239.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1239"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001229.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1229"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001234.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1234"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001235.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1235"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001233.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1233"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001238.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1238"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001241.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1241"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001242.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1242"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001237.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1237"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001236.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A><A NAME="1236"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:32 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:41 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3973da7b8 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 16 October 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>16 October 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 05:00:14 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:32 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001229.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1229"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001230.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1230"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001231.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1231"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001232.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A><A NAME="1232"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001233.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1233"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001234.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1234"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001235.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1235"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001236.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A><A NAME="1236"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001237.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1237"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001238.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1238"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001239.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1239"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001240.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1240"> </A> +<I>Frederic Janssens +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001241.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1241"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001242.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1242"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001243.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1243"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:32 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:41 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9a231a4db --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 16 October 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>16 October 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 05:00:14 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:32 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001229.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1229"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001230.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1230"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001231.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1231"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001233.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1233"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001234.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1234"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001235.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1235"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001237.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1237"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001238.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1238"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001239.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1239"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001240.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1240"> </A> +<I>Frederic Janssens +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001241.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1241"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001242.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1242"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001243.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1243"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001232.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A><A NAME="1232"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001236.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A><A NAME="1236"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:32 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:41 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..09d393fcc --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101016/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,149 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 16 October 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>16 October 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 05:00:14 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:32 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01287198014- --> +<LI><A HREF="001229.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1229"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287198014-01287212166- --> +<LI><A HREF="001230.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1230"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01287198014-01287212166-01287243064- --> +<LI><A HREF="001233.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1233"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01287198014-01287212166-01287243064-01287247011- --> +<LI><A HREF="001237.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1237"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<!--3 01287198014-01287212166-01287243064-01287247011-01287257369- --> +<LI><A HREF="001238.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1238"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<!--3 01287198014-01287212166-01287243064-01287247011-01287257369-01287258772- --> +<LI><A HREF="001239.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1239"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<!--3 01287198014-01287212166-01287243064-01287247011-01287257369-01287258772-01287259710- --> +<LI><A HREF="001240.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1240"> </A> +<I>Frederic Janssens +</I> + +<!--3 01287198014-01287212166-01287243064-01287247011-01287257369-01287258772-01287259710-01287261711- --> +<LI><A HREF="001242.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1242"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<!--3 01287198014-01287212166-01287243064-01287247011-01287257369-01287258772-01287261671- --> +<LI><A HREF="001241.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1241"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +</UL> +<!--2 01287198014-01287212166-01287243691- --> +<LI><A HREF="001234.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1234"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01287198014-01287212166-01287243691-01287264512- --> +<LI><A HREF="001243.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1243"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 01287198014-01287222747- --> +<LI><A HREF="001231.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1231"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01287198014-01287222747-01287244822- --> +<LI><A HREF="001235.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1235"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01287228831- --> +<LI><A HREF="001232.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A><A NAME="1232"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287228831-01287245274- --> +<LI><A HREF="001236.html">[Mageia-dev] Q: how long should we able to upgrade from? +</A><A NAME="1236"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:32 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Oct 16 23:28:41 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |