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<H1>[Mageia-dev] installing minimal is not really that minimal</H1>
<B>Anne nicolas</B>
<A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20installing%20minimal%20is%20not%20really%20that%20minimal&In-Reply-To=%3CCACYHsMw_DK6GiEetCq9NuZ0k2aLASQmoUMFF8kg_owf47K3fVw%40mail.gmail.com%3E"
TITLE="[Mageia-dev] installing minimal is not really that minimal">ennael at mageia.org
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<I>Thu Mar 22 10:48:13 CET 2012</I>
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<PRE>2012/3/22 Thierry Vignaud <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thierry.vignaud at gmail.com</A>>:
><i> On 22 March 2012 09:31, You-Cheng Hsieh <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">yochenhsieh at gmail.com</A>> wrote:
</I>>>><i> note that having a couple x11 package is not installing x11.
</I>>>><i> I've made the minimal install quite a lot smaller.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> We still have issues with suggests that makes installation explodes.
</I>>>><i> I've reports some bugs but maintainers just don't care.
</I>>>><i> See eg: <A HREF="https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4357">https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4357</A> that got
</I>>>><i> reaffected to me because the maintainer doesn't care about
</I>>>><i> bloating the install
</I>>>><i> This particular one isn't about minimal install but about gnome install
</I>>>><i> but the underlying issue will bloats any minimal install + light desktop
</I>>>><i> + _one_ gtk+ application.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>><i> Both gnome-keyring and task-gnome are maintained by nobody, could you
</I>>><i> modify the spec and close the bug?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> I've made quite some changes for mga2 in order to bring minimal
</I>><i> install under control.
</I>><i> But that can't work in the long term.
</I>><i> I'ven't enough time & I cannot do it alone.
</I>><i> I did it twice back @mdv and yet people keep introduced new interesting
</I>><i> ways to bloat again.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> I don't want to imply Olav did it. But he's packager of one of the offending
</I>><i> packages, and so inherited part of mdv heritage.
</I>><i> So I wrote a bug about it in order to pull maintainers in.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Every packager should be made aware of Implications of:
</I>><i> - suggests
</I>><i> - library requiring the tools they were created for
</I>><i>
</I>><i> It's easy to add a suggest ("hey it'll just make the user experience better"),
</I>><i> but eventually the suggested package can start a cycles that will pull
</I>><i> quite a lot more packages.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> See <A HREF="https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4357#c5">https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4357#c5</A>
</I>><i> systemd was initially pulling:
</I>><i> - the whole gtk+ stack,
</I>><i> - openldap,
</I>><i> - avahi,
</I>><i> - gamin,
</I>><i> - fuse,
</I>><i> - colord,
</I>><i> - gnome-keyring,
</I>><i> - seahorse,
</I>><i> - dirmngr
</I>><i> - python
</I>><i>
</I>><i> And none of it (but python) has actually to do with systemd.
</I>><i> It was just that required library actually suggest or requires another one
</I>><i> which also suggested or required ...
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Everyone should be concerned about that.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> I've broke some requires/suggest cycles, but I cannot do it alone,
</I>><i> everyone should contribute (and also should try not to introduce
</I>><i> new ones)
</I>><i>
</I>><i> I think that some of those "comfort" suggests should be moved
</I>><i> from some low level library or tool package to task-<desktop>
</I>><i> packages.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Thus no I won't fix every issue.
</I>><i> People have to test install and have to get interested in reducing
</I>><i> size of install.
</I>><i> This is not a personal attack against Olav that does a good job.
</I>><i> That means for everyone to get in the implications of requires &
</I>><i> suggests.
</I>><i> Not looking only at that particular package but at the global view,
</I>><i> the installed system.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Not all suggests will bloat installing from DVD as some won't make
</I>><i> it into the DVD image. But some will b/c they're required by other
</I>><i> packages and thus will succeed in being suggested.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Minimal install won't be as perfect as installing basesystem with urpmi
</I>><i> because of installer also pulling packages needed for HW (eg: LVM,
</I>><i> SMP, bluetooth, ...)
</I>><i>
</I>><i> At least for mga2, it's has been reduced.
</I>><i> But it could be more.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Also installing a desktop (GNOME & KDE) is huge these days.
</I>><i> Something should be made about it.
</I>><i> Maybe splitting task-{gnome,kde}-networking and the like and moving
</I>><i> them under CAT_NETWORK, CAT_OFFICE, CAT_GAMES, CAT_INTERNET,
</I>><i> CAT_MULTIMEDIA and the like in rpmsrate.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> But this is the job of everyone.
</I>><i> Not just me.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> My 2 cents
</I>
Thanks for your proposal. But anyway this is for Mageia 3. Could we
please calm down and focus again on coming release? We do have work
enough for everybody :)
Cheers
--
Anne
<A HREF="http://www.mageia.org">http://www.mageia.org</A>
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