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<H1>[Mageia-dev] Remove upgrade functionnality in installer</H1>
<B>andre999</B>
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TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Remove upgrade functionnality in installer">andre999mga at laposte.net
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<I>Wed Jun 27 12:29:34 CEST 2012</I>
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<PRE>Anne nicolas a écrit :
>><i> But using a DVD to upgrade an already installed system is a good way to get
</I>>><i> around the fact that many packages, including nonfree firmware, are missing
</I>>><i> from the DVD.
</I>>><i> If one does a clean install, one has to try to find a lot of missing
</I>>><i> packages, because they are no longer installed. This impacts considerably
</I>>><i> the usability of the system. (Considering what the user had installed.)
</I>>><i> All one has to do after the upgrade install, is reboot and do a normal
</I>>><i> upgrade with rpmdrake (selecting "all updates" and "all packages"), and
</I>>><i> almost everything works well.
</I>>><i> (For me upgrade to mga1 worked perfectly. The last 2 upgrades with mdv had
</I>>><i> some problems, due to other factors. A clean install has always caused me a
</I>>><i> lot of problems.)
</I>>><i> With a clean install, it can be problematic to find all the missing
</I>>><i> packages, as well as missing firmware.
</I>>><i>
</I>><i> I'm not saying we remove all upgrade ways as we still have mgaapplet.
</I>><i> We experienced *a lot* of problem during QA tests using DVD to
</I>><i> upgrade. Really I don'"t understand your point...
</I>><i>
</I>
Well maybe I'm not understanding your proposal. Initially I thought it
was to remove the update option at the end of the upgrade process with
the DVD.
Then a post earlier in this thread said that you didn't mean that, and
seemed to say that you were suggesting removing the upgrade install
option with the DVD, leaving only the clean install.
If so, I am strongly opposed, as in my experience, for the reasons
cited, it has been by far the best upgrade path for myself, and I'm sure
for many others.
However, maybe I'm misunderstanding your proposal ?
Maybe the introduction of systemd introduced a one-time transition
problem which will not normally be encountered with a DVD upgrade install ?
>><i> Note that I don't use mgaapplet after an upgrade install, since it doesn't
</I>>><i> give me all the information I want, to help me decide if I should drop some
</I>>><i> packages that were installed.
</I>>><i>
</I>><i> This is not the role of this tool.
</I>><i>
</I>
Sorry, just trying to put my approach in context.
>><i> It may be that using mgaapplet after an upgrade install is the weak link in
</I>>><i> the chain.
</I>>><i> And certainly urpmi is not a convenient tool at this point. (Although I use
</I>>><i> it a lot at other times.)
</I>>><i>
</I>><i> So because mgaapplet is buggy for upgrades, we should just let it down
</I>><i> and use DVD ?
</I>><i>
</I>
That is not the same thing as saying that we should *prevent* using the
DVD for upgrades.
In any case, with the reliability of Internet connexions available at my
location, it is highly unlikely that I could make an upgrade without the
DVD. And during a DVD upgrade, I don't have Internet access. (My
Internet supplier usually cuts the connexion if not active for 5
minutes, which always happens with a DVD upgrade.)
>><i> Note also that with upgrade install, even firmware that is missing from the
</I>>><i> release (and not only the DVD) remains installed. So there are cases where
</I>>><i> an upgrade install necessarily produces a better functioning system.
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> So in sum, in my view, removing upgrade install for DVDs would be an
</I>>><i> important regression.
</I>>><i> But maybe we should suggest rebooting and using rpmdrake after such an
</I>>><i> install.
</I>>><i>
</I>><i> This is non sense... Either the upgrade tool does its job properly or
</I>><i> not... How can we say Mageia is easy when you propose such process?
</I>><i>
</I>
Sorry, but I think that even the least computer-savy user could easily
use this approach.
Simply
1) Do upgrade with DVD
2) Reboot
3) Do update with MCC/software/package_installer (rpmdrake) or
update_system (mgaapplet)
Since an upgrade install only removes packages that are replaced,
nonfree firmware stays installed. Also packages not on the DVD stay
installed, even though not updated until step 3.
Note that on Microsoft systems, it is generally recommended to reboot
after installing, even for relatively minor upgrades. Instead of only
after a release upgrade.
If the user has reliable Internet access during upgrade, of course it
would be advantageous to do it in one step.
Note also that at least in North America, users can usually download a
DVD for free at their local library, even if they don't have a good
Internet connexion at home. And in other regions, users could obtain a
copy of the DVD without having to download it themselves.
So the DVD upgrade install has its' place.
Regards :)
--
André
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