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   <H1>[Mageia-dev] Orphans - those poor orphans . . .</H1>
    <B>ptyxs</B> 
    <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Orphans%20-%20those%20poor%20orphans%20.%20.%20.&In-Reply-To=%3C4F081DAD.2040406%40free.fr%3E"
       TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Orphans - those poor orphans . . .">ptyxs at free.fr
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    <I>Sat Jan  7 11:25:49 CET 2012</I>
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<PRE>Le 07/01/2012 11:18, andre999 a &#233;crit :
&gt;<i> Sander Lepik a &#233;crit :
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> 07.01.2012 01:09, Johnny A. Solbu kirjutas:
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> On Friday 06 January 2012 18:54, Balcaen John wrote:
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> I guess when you did encounter that you just remove task-kde from 
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> your system
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> I did not. I should have been more clearly with my example. :-)=
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> The packages in my example where all console program, that I 
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> installed and removed using urpm[ie]. So I explicitly removed only 
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> the one program I just installed. And it did not install any other 
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> packages, as a result of dependencies.
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> And this is my point. We uninstall a specific program, not a 
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> meta/task package, which result in some packages beeing marked as 
</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> orphaned, when they are infact Not orphaned.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Give us command line example. Install something and remove it and 
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> then show me what got orphaned if it wasn't orphan before. What you 
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> claim here doesn't sound right as i haven't seen it myself.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> -- 
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Sander
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> It is not exactly the same thing, but in more than one occasion when I 
</I>&gt;<i> installed packages with similar functions at the same time, to compare 
</I>&gt;<i> them, say A, B, and C, and later uninstalled B and C, I have found A 
</I>&gt;<i> to be declared an orphan.  Only to find that it had been required by 
</I>&gt;<i> one of the others.
</I>&gt;<i> (I often prefer command-line packages.  It is simple to add them to 
</I>&gt;<i> the menu if I want.  And I have often enough made such comparisons.  
</I>&gt;<i> To be fair, I haven't done much of that since installing Mageia, when 
</I>&gt;<i> it first became available.)
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> Really though, we should consider how people work with installing 
</I>&gt;<i> software.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> The auto-orphans option and how it currently works is based on the 
</I>&gt;<i> assumption that if package A is installed as a requirement of package 
</I>&gt;<i> B, that on uninstalling B, one will want to uninstall A.  That to me 
</I>&gt;<i> is a false premise.
</I>&gt;<i> It is likely to be the case, but not necessarily.
</I>&gt;<i> Generally users will use the graphic installer (rpmdrake), as it is 
</I>&gt;<i> more convenient.  When the question of orphans is presented, if it is 
</I>&gt;<i> presented, one should be presented with the same options that are 
</I>&gt;<i> presented on installation with required packages.  That is, to be able 
</I>&gt;<i> to query the description (&quot;more info&quot;) of the associated packages, and 
</I>&gt;<i> thus readily make an informed decision of what to remove.
</I>&gt;<i> As well, the message should be that the orphaned packages &quot;may&quot; be no 
</I>&gt;<i> longer useful, instead of saying that they can be safely removed.
</I>&gt;<i> Sure, in terms of not being strictly required by other packages, they 
</I>&gt;<i> can be safely removed, but if I had always followed the auto-orphan 
</I>&gt;<i> advice, I would have uninstalled gnome on more than one occasion.  
</I>&gt;<i> (Which is my usual desktop environment.)
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> What is more important is what is needed for the user to be able to 
</I>&gt;<i> use their computer as they wish, with the packages providing the 
</I>&gt;<i> functions they wish.  In that sense, auto-orphans does indeed break 
</I>&gt;<i> systems.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> My 2 cents :)
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>+1


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