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   <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Qt-based software unusable under XFCE since almost	2 days
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   <H1>[Mageia-dev] Qt-based software unusable under XFCE since almost	2 days</H1>
    <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> 
    <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Qt-based%20software%20unusable%20under%20XFCE%20since%20almost%0A%092%20days&In-Reply-To=%3CCA%2Bh4nj7MmwXgNHE9a8crca65LNAqJTYOWShE%2BCAZLQvLaYTRww%40mail.gmail.com%3E"
       TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Qt-based software unusable under XFCE since almost	2 days">molch.b at googlemail.com
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    <I>Mon Feb 20 13:41:12 CET 2012</I>
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<PRE>2012/2/20 Michael Scherer &lt;<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>&gt;:
&gt;<i> Le dimanche 19 f&#233;vrier 2012 &#224; 12:19 +0000, Pa&#239;ou a &#233;crit :
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Oliver Burger &lt;<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">oliver.bgr at ...</A>&gt; writes:
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; I don't see the reason for this answer.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; Michael is just trying to make sure, we don't have a unmaintained major DE.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; Now, some maybe a bit harsh words on the developer mailing list - this
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; is no user support list or forum or whatever - are far better, then
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; having something like xfce unmaintained.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; After all, what makes users run away: some not all that courteous mails
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; on the -dev ml, whose existence they may or may not be aware of or a
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; perhaps buggy, not updated, unmaintained desktop?
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; And if we keep a whole DE unmaintained in the repos, what does that say
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; about overall package quality?
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt;
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt; Oliver
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt;
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt;
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> OK, you are right. Sorry.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> I wish ardently that Xfce remains maintained.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> I guess lots of people do. But history shown this is not enough.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> Let's suppose we keep xfce, despites being unmaintained. When people
</I>&gt;<i> report bugs, they will have no or few answers. They will not like and
</I>&gt;<i> complain. Maybe more than with a maintainer, maybe they will not care.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> When there will be bugs, no one will step to fix them. So people who try
</I>&gt;<i> this will either say &quot;this DE is buggy&quot;, or &quot;this distribution is
</I>&gt;<i> buggy&quot;.
</I>&gt;<i> Then, likely sooner or later, someone will say &quot;the DE work fine on
</I>&gt;<i> AnotherDistribution&quot;, so people will think &quot;the distribution is buggy&quot;
</I>&gt;<i> and switch to AnotherDistribution.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> While the outcome look the same ( ie, people leaving because there is no
</I>&gt;<i> package, or leaving because it is not working ), in one case, they will
</I>&gt;<i> switch by thinking &quot;the distribution is not having what I want, but the
</I>&gt;<i> rest was working&quot; and will not badmouth us. In the other case, they will
</I>&gt;<i> think &quot;the distribution is buggy&quot;, and complain.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> So how ending like this would help us in the long run ?
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> Maybe that's just me, but each time I mentioned &quot;I am doing package for
</I>&gt;<i> Mandriva&quot; in the past 5 years, people kept explaining me that they faced
</I>&gt;<i> some bug dating back to mandrake 7.0 time, and that they switched
</I>&gt;<i> distributions and how they now live in a world filled with pink pony
</I>&gt;<i> giving them candy, yadayadayada. Besides being demotivating for me
</I>&gt;<i> ( cause my time travel machine is still not working ), this was hurting
</I>&gt;<i> the promotion of Mandriva.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> Did someone ever heard &quot;fedora is bad because they didn't ship Xfce at
</I>&gt;<i> the start&quot;. I never did, and I think everybody forgot it. I could surely
</I>&gt;<i> give several example on all distribution of missing packages and people
</I>&gt;<i> forgetting once the issue is fixed.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> So people are likely quicker to forget lack of packages than lack of
</I>&gt;<i> quality.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> And if we do not have the ressources to achieve quality packages, then
</I>&gt;<i> it is much more saner for us to choose the least damaging solution in
</I>&gt;<i> the long term, ie removing packages.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> There was enough complains about Mandriva shipping buggy softwares, and
</I>&gt;<i> if as a community, we cannot increase work done to fix this ( we tried,
</I>&gt;<i> we even put 2 developers together to see if they mate and produce a 3rd
</I>&gt;<i> one to help us ), we do not have much others choice.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> For my part I participate in it as tester,
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> where from my a little bit virulent reaction.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> This place is also, I think, the only place where it is possible
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> to have a dialogue with developers.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &#160;(except bugzilla, but bugzilla is more specific)
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> There is lots of place to have a dialogue, be it on irc, in real life
</I>&gt;<i> and so on. And if some of us ( and me the first ) do not go on forums on
</I>&gt;<i> a frequent basis, there is various reasons that were already explained
</I>&gt;<i> in the past
</I>&gt;<i> ( <A HREF="http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.mandrake.cooker.devel/305365">http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.mandrake.cooker.devel/305365</A> ),
</I>&gt;<i> so I can only direct you to my previous answers as it is likely still
</I>&gt;<i> valid ( at least for me ).
</I>
&gt;<i>From time to time we do have different opinions especially wrt user's
</I>POV vs. devel's POV, but this time I agree in full to all points you
made.

-- 
wobo
</PRE>























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