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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20120129/006360.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20120129/006360.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..93262739c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20120129/006360.html @@ -0,0 +1,195 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] [Poll] What are your top requirements? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20%5BPoll%5D%20What%20are%20your%20top%20requirements%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1327842334.2844.65.camel%40liliana.cdg.redhat.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="006356.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="006364.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] [Poll] What are your top requirements?</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20%5BPoll%5D%20What%20are%20your%20top%20requirements%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1327842334.2844.65.camel%40liliana.cdg.redhat.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] [Poll] What are your top requirements?">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Jan 29 14:05:34 CET 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="006356.html">[Mageia-discuss] [Poll] What are your top requirements? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="006364.html">[Mageia-discuss] [Poll] What are your top requirements? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#6360">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#6360">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#6360">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#6360">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 29 janvier 2012 à 06:11 +0100, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit : +><i> 2012/1/28 Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">misc at zarb.org</A>>: +</I> +><i> > While I appreciate Wobo efforts to get meaningful numbers, I am rather +</I>><i> > doubtful about a few things. First, the choice of questions make me +</I>><i> > wonder, since my memories tell me that for doing such kind of polls, you +</I>><i> > first need to do preliminary research to find the options. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The questions are a result of reading user's postings for quite some years. +</I> +So basically, that's "because I know that's this, based on what I +remember". But the formal methodology is a little bit more complex than +that, mainly to avoid any specific bias due to the selection by the +peson doing the poll. + +For example, the diversity of the group may be important, as well as the +cultural norms. If you focus just on forums, you focus just on a certain +type of users. Having numbers to present is also usually important to +show your result as meaningful. + +><i> > There is for example various things like : +</I>><i> > "networking out of the box", and "good hardware recognition" that are +</I>><i> > the same. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Not at all. Example: my wifi hardware is recognized out of the box but +</I>><i> it is a drag to get it working. +</I> +Then why treat networking differently than any others functions like +printing ? +And what make you think that your specific issue is not linked to +hardware problem ? + +Good hardware goes beyond "the interface appear in ifconfig, therefore, +it is supported perfectly". That's usually the contrary, the whole +drakxnet/wpa_supplicant/whatever bit work for some people and not from +others, and the only stuff that change is the wifi chipset. That's +likely a hardware support issue. Main developer of Network Manager +explained that on his blog. People often tend to think that nm is +broken, while the problem is usually a bug in the driver that is +triggered by nm. + +Hence, the question do not depict exactly what should be improved, just +what some people think the problem is, without giving more informations +on exactly the problem is. The poll is not the right tool for that, the +bugzilla is ( and we are fully aware of the bugs that are reported ). + +><i> > And LTS go hand to hand with "stable as top priority" ( since LTS mean +</I>><i> > the system do not change for a long time, and usually, once enough bugs +</I>><i> > are fixed, softwares are rather stable ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Not the same. +</I> +One is a consequence of the other, in my vision of a LTS ( and that's +also the vision of Canonical, which is basically the only definition we +have of LTS so far ). And as seen on Mandriva list or on the forum, LTS +mean nothing for some users, and mean different things for different +people ( ie, long term, how much is this ? support, what do it entail +exactly ? ). + +For people that see LTS as "I never reinstall and get new versions of +some stuff", there is a poll item. For those that say "I never reinstall +and system do not move", there is a poll item. + +So LTS can ( and rightfully ) be seen as a technical detail to achieve +what people want, hence the few vote ( which doesn't reflect what people +asked in others time ). + +><i> > Not to mention that a poll may give incorrect expectation to people, and +</I>><i> > usually only measure a fraction of the users. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, same as elections and marketing surveys. +</I> +Except for elections, you know who you ask and how many people, and +that's to select someone, based on a large corpus of proposition, that's +rather different. + +So that's more like a marketing survey, without enough detailed +information ( like "we asked to people who are this age, this gender, +this level of skills ). We will know what some people want, but not who +they are. And without knowing who they are, we will not know if they are +the ones we want, if the survey results are biased, or what kind of bias +we should be careful of. + +For example, do we want to listen to people that are here since the +start, or not ? To people that are outside of the current community, or +those that are unsatisfied with their current distribution ? + +><i> > And more importantly, it doesn't help us on the crucial thing ( IMHO ), +</I>><i> > how to expend the contributeurs pool. +</I>><i> > I think asking "where would you want to put efforts in the next year for +</I>><i> > Mageia" would allow us to better see what kind of priority we should +</I>><i> > have to grow the community. ( followed by discussions of "why don't you +</I>><i> > do it now" that would help finding potential weak spots in the system ). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > This or asking directly, "why don't you work on $FOO". Users will come +</I>><i> > when we have a great product ( ie, grow naturally up to a point ). And +</I>><i> > product will be great with enough contribution, hence the focus on that. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This was never the goal of this poll. +</I> +I know this is not. However, that's a poll that would be more useful, +since again, our first and foremost goal is to have contributions. +Without this, the rest will not be + +><i> Why don't you start such a poll yourself? +</I> +You mean "why don't I start a vast social engineering campaign to +recruit contributers ? " + +I already do it ( but I guess people do not see it ), but I never go to +forums. I would not like people to step on my toes on sysadmin side, so +I have the politeness of letting those that run the forums to take care +of that. + +><i> @ALL: Thx for your opinions though I wish you'd offer these there +</I>><i> where the poll is and not where I merely gave a pointer to the poll. +</I> +Personally, I will continue here because the lack of thread in forum +will make hard to have a meaningful discussion. I answered to the poll, +and to the forum, but I do not think I can be as precise ( or read +"verbose") there than I am on the ml. +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="006356.html">[Mageia-discuss] [Poll] What are your top requirements? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="006364.html">[Mageia-discuss] [Poll] What are your top requirements? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#6360">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#6360">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#6360">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#6360">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |