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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/2012-December/009030.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/2012-December/009030.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ad18d6837 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/2012-December/009030.html @@ -0,0 +1,179 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] FSF anf UEFI SecureBoot + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20FSF%20anf%20UEFI%20SecureBoot&In-Reply-To=%3CCAMkUjuHaG5Lq2wm768FkXmxvC2NEwPCypZmN%3DOQsPEcEpw9rHA%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="009028.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="009031.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] FSF anf UEFI SecureBoot</H1> + <B>Ludovic V Meyer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20FSF%20anf%20UEFI%20SecureBoot&In-Reply-To=%3CCAMkUjuHaG5Lq2wm768FkXmxvC2NEwPCypZmN%3DOQsPEcEpw9rHA%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] FSF anf UEFI SecureBoot">ludo.v.meyer at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Dec 31 15:53:51 CET 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="009028.html">[Mageia-discuss] FSF anf UEFI SecureBoot +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="009031.html">[Mageia-discuss] FSF anf UEFI SecureBoot +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#9030">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#9030">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#9030">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#9030">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2012/12/30 AL13N <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">alien at rmail.be</A>> + +><i> Op zondag 30 december 2012 21:17:38 schreef Ludovic V Meyer: +</I>><i> > Except it does let 3rd parties OS boot, at least on X86, since the norm +</I>><i> > mandate it. +</I>><i> > And for arm tablet, no one reacted when Apple, Acer, Samsung, Archos and +</I>><i> > lots of others locked down their devices, so trying to argue that we now +</I>><i> > expect them to be open would not work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> actually, they didn't. you can root each of those iinm. +</I>><i> +</I> +Using 3rd exploit is not really what I call open, they are not supported, +likely against DMCA most of the time, and IMHO not reliable. +Not to mention that it requires a manual intervention on each device. If we +take the example of Apple, they closed every hole after a while when it was +practical to do,and used the existing leagal way to prevent them ( see in +2009, +the update of the developper agreement ). And since I know you will surely +talk of if, the DCMA ruling for jailbreaking is just for phone, because +unlike France, telcos in USA do not have to unlock your phone after a few +months. + +Not to mention that afaik, despites them being "not closed" by your +definition, stuff like Iphonelinux are all dead in the water. +Cyanogenmod only exist because from time to time, Google do a code drop, +and they still suffer from needing a custom fork of the kernel. + +So if the goal is "to be able to run what I want on my device", that's +something that can already be done for applications. What people should say +is "running what I want provided no money directly leave my pocket, but I +do not mind spending days figuring how to do it, cause I prefer spend 1 +week than giving 100 bucks". + +this is about having a secure key hardcoded "burned" in the device, which is +><i> both stupid and annoying. because since apps need to be secured too, too +</I>><i> many +</I>><i> people have access to the root key. which means the chance of leak is +</I>><i> higher. +</I>><i> which means that your devices need to be thrown out when the rootkey is +</I>><i> compromised or when it's deemed obsolete and a new key will be in place. +</I>><i> +</I> +The key is handled by Verisign, and since that's their jobs since around 18 +years, I think they are qualified to do it. +How many time in 18 years was the root cert of Verisign be compromised ? + +Also, you are totally wrong about throwing the device if the key is leaked. +This happened to the PS3 due to the world-record breaking ignorance of Sony +( or one sub contractor ), and AFAIK, the PS3 all around the world still +work ( and also, no one formally complained about gaming consoles being +closed, despite some of them just being powerful PCs ). The same goes for +various phones/tablet who have been broken this way ( like the Asus +transformer, AFAIK ). + +Burning a key in silicium is what Apple have been doing since a long time. +That's also the modus operandi of TPM modules. They are used by several +banking institutions as a way to make sure the harddrive is protected with +bitlocker ( cause you do not want your highest executive laptops to be +stolen and that this cause privacy and security issues ). IE, that is +viewed as sufficient for FIPS certification and usage for military grade or +banking grade security. And I am pretty sure the private key is stored in +some HSM like the nShield solo or similar device. + +Not everybody work like your client ( the one we talked about yesterday on +IRC, if I am not wrong ). Some people take security seriously, and check +what happens. But that's not security of the root key that matter, since no +one ever asked for public scrutiny or a independent audit. + +the thing here is that since you buy a device, it's yours and you can do +><i> what +</I>><i> you want with it. why would you give other parties control over your +</I>><i> device? +</I>><i> it's stupid. there needs to be a way as an owner to decide which root keys +</I>><i> you +</I>><i> trust or not. +</I>><i> +</I> +You do not give control to another party, you delegate trust handling to +another party. +That's exactly what you do with a browser. Or your bank, or anything in +life. + +Again, the norm mandate to be able to disable secureboot on x86 and to +choose the key. The whole petition is about those that do not follow the +norm, and for those, the incentive was to not being Windows 8 certified. So +as annoying this will be, that's the best way to find something that let +you run Linux. + + +><i> > And regarding using consumer protection channels, no one did anything to +</I>><i> > make anything move since one year despite being widely publicized on +</I>><i> > various blogs, so how is your proposal different ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Talk is cheap, if every people who proposed that ( for example, on +</I>><i> slashdot +</I>><i> > or various foras where nerds are discussing ), someone would have started +</I>><i> > the work by the time. No one did, and that's because everybody that would +</I>><i> > be serious enough know this is built on wrong assumptions. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> in the end talk is cheap and noone does anything about it. or rather +</I>><i> instead +</I>><i> of working together, all the companies who back the major linuxes decide +</I>><i> to go +</I>><i> down the easy route. (like subscribing into the microsoft program and using +</I>><i> their root key...) +</I>><i> +</I> +All plans that requires someone else to do anything is just a way to blame +failure to someone else. If you delegate all your action to someone else, +you lose the right to complain about this group not doing what you want. +Only delusional fools would believe otherwise. + +In fact, hardware not working on Linux is a decades old problem. We all +have seen how boycott worked so well to have more hardware supported on +linux, and how people happily trade freedom for convenience ( like nvidia +drivers, printers, etc, etc ). People should just do a reality check from +time to time before proposing the same plan again and again. Last time I +checked, humans didn't evolve from goldfish, so maybe we could stop acting +like them. +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-discuss/attachments/20121231/5a18e88e/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="009028.html">[Mageia-discuss] FSF anf UEFI SecureBoot +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="009031.html">[Mageia-discuss] FSF anf UEFI SecureBoot +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#9030">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#9030">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#9030">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#9030">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |