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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20110216/003605.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20110216/003605.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e9cbfa1bc --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20110216/003605.html @@ -0,0 +1,185 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] A name for mageia-app-db + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20A%20name%20for%20mageia-app-db&In-Reply-To=%3C1297868616.20660.104.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="003611.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="003608.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] A name for mageia-app-db</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20A%20name%20for%20mageia-app-db&In-Reply-To=%3C1297868616.20660.104.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] A name for mageia-app-db">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Feb 16 16:03:36 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="003611.html">[Mageia-discuss] First impressions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="003608.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia on VBox 3 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#3605">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#3605">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#3605">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#3605">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le samedi 12 février 2011 à 21:44 +0100, Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +><i> On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 20:08, Wolfgang Bornath <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> > 2011/2/12 Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">misc at zarb.org</A>>: +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> Well, to me, the name market and all of it connotations is quite +</I>><i> >> consumerist, and doesn't really fit with the spirit of a community +</I>><i> >> distribution, based on collaboration more than pure commercial +</I>><i> >> exchange as the various proposed name implies. +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> When samuel presented his idea, I was quite interested because it would +</I>><i> >> allows me as a packager to find who would be ok to test packages, +</I>><i> >> to collaborate when i need confirmation for a bug and so on. +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> But it seems that the vast majority of proposal are geared toward +</I>><i> >> replicating the model of Apple Appstore, Google market and others : +</I>><i> >> - app market, app box, software database, app center, Appworld, +</I>><i> >> software portal. +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> Where is the collaboration in all of this ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Yes, I agree to this point of view. "market" is connected with +</I>><i> > "selling", "app*" is connected with Apple's commercial appstore. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That a word is used or misused would not justify to abdicate our own +</I>><i> use of it, if it is relevant. Or we are headed for newspeak each time. +</I> +Well, some people tried. Ask around you what they understand when we say +"hackers" or "communist". Or "geek". I do not like either to change the +meaning of word, that's very 1984 as you put it. But I also perfectly +realize that we cannot by ourself fight against the rest of the world. + +><i> "App" has been used years for software applications before Apple +</I>><i> coined the "AppStore" name. And their application platform has +</I>><i> fundamentally nothing new, but that it does build a hugely profitable +</I>><i> ecosystem, for now at least. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> A "market" is a place where people meet and exchange stuff. From this +</I>><i> have grown many different things of different sizes and implications. +</I>><i> And sometimes, there is sales and purchases there, because that's how +</I>><i> it takes place. +</I> +I beg to differ, according to historic source, there is sale per +definition ( <A HREF="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/market">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/market</A> ). + +><i> And nothing here opposes collaboration: it just takes +</I>><i> place in a certain way, provided both parties are happy with the +</I>><i> transaction that took place. +</I> +For some people, market is also often associated with competition +( especially when associated to the capitalist view of the word, ie +"free market" ). And competition is kinda opposite to cooperation ( or +at least, not from the same person ). + +Sure that's not the only meaning, but there is a significant share of +people that will associate this rather with "competition" than +"cooperation". + +Again, just do a quick test around you. + +><i> "Market" may indeed not be the best word in this very case, but this +</I>><i> reflexion hints something interesting: that you oppose the possibility +</I>><i> to have paid-for stuff witin mageia-app-db. Why not. Is it so really? +</I>><i> Is it assumed? +</I> +If people ask me the question ( just in case someone is fool enough for +that ), I would oppose, yes. Not because I am fundamentally against +commercial activities, I do computer support for a fair trade +association from time to time that do commercial stuff, and more than +once I helped to sell tshirts on free software fair. And I also know +that people may need money to live ( mainly because I also do, as +surprising it seems ). + +But I would be against this in madb for 2 main reasons. + +The first is this was not suggested by anybody so far, and was not +expressed in term of requirements. So without this, it is better to say +"no until this is more clear", rather than "yes" and change mind later. + +"Having paid-for applications" is too broad, and this encompass things +like "adding flattr button" to "accepting DRM in rpm", or "filtering per +country what people can see in the application". + + +The second one is that adding commercial business in a software +distribution is gonna be risky and have some side effects, varying on +the type of commercial business. + +The introduction of Kiosk, while based on a interesting idea ( and well, +quite new at this time ) and good intentions, had a unfortunate chilling +effect on community. And the worst part was that community was in +competition with it when kde backports were offered as part of the +service. The same goes for the club ( despite being not so bad in term +of revenue, until Ubuntu appeared ). + +While both projects got killed in the end for various reasons, the end +result is that Mandriva seems to still suffer from the reputation +problem. And that's a sufficient reason to be cautious when adding +commercial business in the mix of a free software project. + +Unfortunately, the PR issue is quite tricky to get right. Let's take for +example Canonical. +Despite having a strong community, and enough ressources to have a +decent marketing team, they suffer from the same type of issue, ie bad +PR just du to the fact they try to make a living with commercial +business. + +See the controversy around Ubuntu One naming ( +<A HREF="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+bug/375345?comments=all">https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+bug/375345?comments=all</A> ), +the very recent controversy with Banshee +( <A HREF="http://gburt.blogspot.com/2011/02/banshee-supporting-gnome-on-ubuntu.html">http://gburt.blogspot.com/2011/02/banshee-supporting-gnome-on-ubuntu.html</A> ), the older one about Rhythmbox and Magnatune ( <A HREF="http://lwn.net/Articles/377314/">http://lwn.net/Articles/377314/</A> , the story do not tell that the rb developers were not aware of the canonical patch ). And that's just the top of those that I can remind of, and a lot of reason of why people do not contribute to Ubuntu. + +Not everything will end this way of course, and we could provides +several example of commercial business mixing well with free software. +But it should be clear that answering "yes, we want to do some +commercial stuff" requires to be cautious and propose a solid and clear +case to avoid misunderstanding, bad PR and in the end lose in the +community. I think we can all agree that our community is still +recovering from the error of the past, and that it warrant to be more +than cautious, extra cautious. + +So in the end, I think "no for the moment and the first years" is the +proper answer. + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="003611.html">[Mageia-discuss] First impressions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="003608.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia on VBox 3 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#3605">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#3605">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#3605">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#3605">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |