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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110308/003116.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110308/003116.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7ae0533db --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110308/003116.html @@ -0,0 +1,185 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] RPM5 AND MAGEIA + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20RPM5%20AND%20MAGEIA&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTin8rxaCXEgcbAtJxz0qOXiHBKjyMwuYDdYB6pBv%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="003114.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="003118.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] RPM5 AND MAGEIA</H1> + <B>Per Øyvind Karlsen</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20RPM5%20AND%20MAGEIA&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTin8rxaCXEgcbAtJxz0qOXiHBKjyMwuYDdYB6pBv%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] RPM5 AND MAGEIA">peroyvind at mandriva.org + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Mar 8 19:11:26 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="003114.html">[Mageia-dev] Alpha2 iso content +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="003118.html">[Mageia-dev] RPM5 AND MAGEIA +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#3116">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#3116">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#3116">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#3116">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2011/3/3 Buchan Milne <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bgmilne at staff.telkomsa.net</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> ----- "devzero2000" <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">devzero2000 at rpm5.org</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> Apart from the rest - of which i will ask for sponsorship when it +</I>>><i> will +</I>>><i> be - I wanted to know if there are plans to move to rpm5 by Mageia, +</I>>><i> such as Mandriva has been doing lately. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Rpm5 already has a builtbot +</I>>><i> with Magela and rpm5. I can, if you can think useful or have plan for +</I>>><i> this, lay the necessary modification to enter into rpm5 Mageia, with +</I>>><i> the features of Mandriva cooker - fingerprint, syslog, etc. without +</I>>><i> trademark ecc- and produce a first rpm rpm5 for mageia , which also +</I>>><i> contains the functionality required by the passage to the "RPM +</I>>><i> ACID " feauture (berkeley db conversion) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But, can you: +</I>><i> -ensure that all valid packages that build under rpm-4.x (e.g. in Mandriva 2010.x) will build under rpm5? +</I>><i> -ensure that all valid packages that install under rpm-4.x will install under rpm-4.x? +</I>No and no (I'm assuming you mean "install under rpm5 will install +under rpm-4.x"). +Such guarantees has never been provided with any other rpm versions +either and would effectively prevent the possibility of doing any +serious development +and improvement on rpm itself and packaging. + +There's a reason for having backports and why we don't even try aiming +at such goals either. + +If able to give any such guarantees with rpm.org on Mageia you gotta be +either stupid, insane or a damn liar! ;p + +The guarantees and priorities is as always: +* legacy compatibility for older packages +(opposed to future compatibility gets kinda hard with the the whole +time travelling issue and limitations attached to it making future +hard to reliably +define;) +* backportability of current packages +packages needs to be adapted to follow current policies, practice, functionality +etc. in the current distribution, while efforts in ensuring +possibility of backports +needs to be invested in the packaging and adopting along the way rather than +keep adapting rpm to stay compatible with the packaging which gets rather +backwards. + +Very few changes results in breakage for backports, and where it happens it's +easy enough to add conditional behaviour, nothing new forcing any real changes +in long-established practices here.. +Much of the same breakages and issues you hit, you'll hit just as well in newer +versions from rpm.org as well.. +><i> +</I>><i> There is no document specifying what has changed, or even when highlighting changes, no-one (@rpm5.org, or @mandriva.com) has bothered to list them so that contributors can save time instead of troubleshooting breakage. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Some issues that have impacted me so far: +</I>><i> -changed behaviour of %exclude +</I>Ambiguity on %exclude usage is a clear bug, %exclude which is solely +intended for +excluding files from a specific package (rather than from being packaged at all. +removing files at end of %install already fit this purpose +sufficiently, which should +make it obvious to most people with understanding of doing technical designs in +general that wiring already existing functionality into an existing +function with +different functionality wouldn't make sense. Also this bug was fixed +since in later +releases such as 4.4.6 & 4.4.8 shipped before the rpm.org change, and should +rather be treated as a regression.) predates the unpackaged files check and +should *not* be used for other purposes. +Fixing this is in packaging is *very* trivial and fully backwards +compatible, not +fixing this OTOH breaks compatibility. +><i> -new reserved macros (%sql) +</I>all new macros introduced has the potential of conflicting with others +and should +always be fixed, it being reserved is more a benefit IMO as it prevents such +incidents to go unnoticed (using very generic naming for macros is a bad +practice in general anyways).. +fixing this does not break any compatibility either ;) +><i> -possible race condition between %__os_install_post and processing of %files (.lzma man pages reported missing where they are in fact .xz) +</I>your own packaging mistake independent of rpm version, explained on +cooker and fixed for you already ;) +><i> +</I>><i> (and of course, the unavailability of the build system - during one of the periods I had the most time to work on packages - due to the rpm5 "upgrade") +</I>><i> +</I>><i> rpm5 has wasted more than half of the time I could afford to contribute to Mandriva. It seems Mandriva has resources to waste, I don't think we have. +</I>you gotta put short-term and long-term effects up against eachother. breakages +were already expected long before starting the upgrade, and the +majority of these +were actually rather in various tools etc. related to rpm rather than +in rpm itself. +The existing situation made it hard to maintain and do development of +rpm in distribution, +packaging and on a the various tools due to being left with since-long +unmaintained +tools used (ie. the older version of the perl bindings that only mandriva +uses and that has been rewritten from scratch since and actively maintained +upstream as well) and having to keep work around it and moving further +and further away from "standard" rpm packaging by keep introducing any new +functionality, scripts, macros etc. as distro specific and harder to collaborate +with others on.. + +You gotta break a few eggs.. +Issues hit in Mandriva gets fixed along the way in both cooker and upstream +in parallel, making extremely few of them of any big concerns for other to +worry about later. +Maintenance and development of various tools, packaging etc. and dealing with +your existing and future issues experienced is something you'll be left to deal +with alone though.. +Considering the *major* amount of time and work invested in r&d historically +always being on Mandriva's end with almost all developers employed to +work on it full time. The harsh reality of trying to keep this up with only a +few of these working on it during their limited spare time should be obvious.. +You're entitled to the freedom of not showing any interest in sharing efforts on +any of these things (and for yourself to blame;), at least you're made aware of +competence, skills, interest and resources that's been offered and is still +available to you. :) + + +><i> +</I>><i> (At present, I am not sure if I will continue to maintain packages in Mandriva, the ones where I need newer packages on non-Mandriva at work which I currently maintain in Mandriva and then rebuild I will maintain for the present, but ones I don't need for work may languish ...) +</I> +(Sorry for slow reponse and late reply..:/) +-- +Regards, +Per Øyvind +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="003114.html">[Mageia-dev] Alpha2 iso content +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="003118.html">[Mageia-dev] RPM5 AND MAGEIA +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#3116">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#3116">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#3116">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#3116">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |