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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-July/006793.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-July/006793.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..cf54509d9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-July/006793.html @@ -0,0 +1,197 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20kernel%203.0%20is%20a%20big%20mistake%20in%20cauldron&In-Reply-To=%3C1310844480.28311.YahooMailNeo%40web161712.mail.bf1.yahoo.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="006790.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="006795.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron</H1> + <B>Radu-Cristian FOTESCU</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20kernel%203.0%20is%20a%20big%20mistake%20in%20cauldron&In-Reply-To=%3C1310844480.28311.YahooMailNeo%40web161712.mail.bf1.yahoo.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron">beranger5ca at yahoo.ca + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Jul 16 21:28:00 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="006790.html">[Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="006795.html">[Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#6793">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#6793">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#6793">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#6793">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> Seriously, look in a mirror and judge yourself, not others. +</I> +OK, updating from 2.6.38 to 2.6.40-0.rc7 aka 3.0.0-0.rc7 was the right +thing. + +Satisfied now? + +There seem to be several standards when judging what to do in an unstable +distro. + +In a released distro, the common rule is _not_ to update anything, unless +the minor updates stop and there isn't any other way to provide a security +fix. A next major (or, sometimes, even a next minor) update only comes with +the next distro release. Backports are possible, but optional. People +needing newer versions of specific packages either are building them +themselves from upstream (quite rare), or they're using 3rd-party repos +(e.g. PPAs). + +So, sorry to repeat: in a _stable_ distro, even upgrading to the next +_stable_ release is usually _forbidden_. (Fedora is kind of an exception +here, but passons...) + +In something like Cauldron them, there are several degrees of possible +freedoms: + +i. Upgrading packages to the next _stable_ version, like the recent +LibreOffice update. +This is the first degree of differentiation from a stable/release distro. + +ii. Upgrading packages to the next _beta/RC_ version, like it's usually the +case with KDE, GNOME (and rightfully so). +This is the second degree of differentiation from a stable/release distro. +IMHO, this should be used with care. +When you say "caludron is by definition unstable, we don't need an extra +testing stage", you implicitely state that Fedora Rawhide's policies are +stupid and only yours is a valid one. + +iii. Upgrading the _kernel_ (or the system and session manager, or other +_critical_ system parts) to the next _beta/RC_ version, which IMNSHO is not +the right thing to do, unless there are 2 different metapackages +(latest-stable-kernel and latest-kernel), so that people who are using a +cooker/cauldron/rawhide/unstable distro be able to choose the degree of risk +they're willing to adopt: +a). risking everything; +b). risking mostly application/DE breakage, yet having a reasonable degree +of confidence that the system as a whole is not really broken except in +extremely rare cases. + + +Of course, your distro, your policies. + + +OTOH, I've had in the past the proof that FLOSS developers typically lack +common sense. A few examples: + +1. Arch Linux developers can't understand that developing a few scripts (a +la Slackware, not a la Mandriva) that would assist the user into further +system & DE configuration after the initial install makes a lot of sense. +100 hours of developers' time  vs. 1,000,000 hours of users' wasted +post-install time. => Develop once, use by everyone. + +2. The same for Gentoo-like distros (stage 1). Having everybody building +every package for every system is useless in 99.9999% of the time, as the +claimed "optimisations" might be of 2-3% in terms of speed, whereas the +millions of users' wasted time (and electrical energy!) are a huge nonsense +-- and it's anti-ecological too! => Build once, install by everyone. + +3. FreeBSD devs have been extremely opaque wrt binary updates. I've not been +using FreeBSD since ages, but I believe that, even if they do have binary +updates now, they're not in plain repositories that could be browsed +(FTP/HTTP) like the Linux updates repos. Once again, patching the FreeBSD +style is a huge waste of time and adds unnecessary risks. + +4. XFCE devs really can't understand/accept that _not_ having for the +desktop icons a text label drawn with transparency & outline (instead of the +default opaque background) makes their DE look like Win95. (Transparency +came with Win98 and outlining... I'm not sure.) + +5. There are gazillions of _relevant_ bugs (even in applications like gedit, +kate, whatnot) that never got fixed, whereas the developers of the +respective DEs always try to add new features, sometimes exotic and +irrelevant ones (compiz-included). It's like they prefer the glitter (the +bling-bling) to _relevant_ functionality. Yet, they develop for Linux, not +for Windows. Go figure. + +6. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it." Countless examples (y compris KDE4, +GNOME3, but I'n not going into this), I'll just say SysV +init/systemd/upstart/whatnot -- I'm not even interested in this crap. It is +crap for me because: +i. Booting time is irrelevant for servers, they're 99.99999% up. +ii. Only stupid desktop users would shutdown when hybernation +(suspend-to-disk) is available. +iii. Gaining 10 seconds in boot time is not worthing, if the price is a +disruptive redesign of the _entire_ init process, with tons of downstream +work for everyone. + +But, as I said, I never trust the judgment of FLOSS/pro-bono developers. So +I don't expect any of you to understand my rationale -- I even expect +Dodonov to piss on my words, as he already did today. (Quite unexpected, as +he already worked for Microsoft, and so far no Microsoft guy mocked me.) + +R-C aka beranger +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="006790.html">[Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="006795.html">[Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#6793">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#6793">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#6793">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#6793">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |