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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001244.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001244.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5357c7416 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001244.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinN6bW0LeRPucaPDX0bHyv44hdzZnV-uDD--A0q%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001246.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinN6bW0LeRPucaPDX0bHyv44hdzZnV-uDD--A0q%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 17 00:35:37 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001246.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1244">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1244">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1244">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1244">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 21:29, Marc Paré <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: +><i> Le 2010-10-16 12:36, Ahmad Samir a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> It's much better to help the user formulate a useful bug report, +</I>>><i> that's easier / more productive for all involved parties. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There would be no middle man. Once the middle-man could replicate the bug +</I>><i> and verify the bug with other users, then the middle-man would submit to +</I>><i> bugzilla. That's it. From there on, the middle-man will take care of testing +</I>><i> requests from devs. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As far as reporting back to the original user who reported the bug, as an +</I>><i> extra gesture of kindness, the middle-man would just post on the "Report a +</I>><i> bug" forum that the bug has been quashed or is still under review ... but +</I>><i> not to the user but to the "Report a bug" forum. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The idea is to keep the flow of possible bug reports coming in an organised +</I>><i> way. The middle-man would have to be someone with a little more experience +</I>><i> than that of a new user and also someone who has an interest in working this +</I>><i> way. We will get more bug reports from users by keeping it simple and easy. +</I> +Yes, and for everyone. + +I tend to agree with Ahmad, as well as with you. + +You may as well imagine we improve the Bugzilla process with a +front-process, guiding the reporter about her bug report. + +That may be a forum with people active there, educating the user about +the bug and the reporting process; + +And/or that may be a better designed bug reporting process with a +better flow (providing and getting info to/from the user), querying a +knowledge-base, filtering known/resolved queries out of +yet-another-duplicate-bug-report and ultimately opening a bug in +Bugzilla with a specific interaction to the user (so she knows what +happens next).* + +That removes the middle-man issue and that filters out as well people +that are not concerned enough to report/follow-up on a bug (provided +the process is, indeed, better designed and better welcomes the end +user). + + +* moreover, I believe this type of improvement would benefit many, +many, if not all, projects using a bug report tool. + +Cheers, + +Romain +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001246.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1244">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1244">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1244">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1244">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001245.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001245.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..07be4ad4d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001245.html @@ -0,0 +1,128 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101016181530.dfd4264a.gato2707%40yahoo.com.mx%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001247.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001249.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Fernando Parra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101016181530.dfd4264a.gato2707%40yahoo.com.mx%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 17 01:15:30 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001247.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001249.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1245">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1245">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1245">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1245">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 23:28:32 +0200 +Luca Berra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca-1WC7Or56Oao at public.gmane.org</A>> wrote: + +><i> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:41:31AM -0500, Fernando Parra wrote: +</I>><i> >On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 08:56:06 +0200 +</I>><i> >Luca Berra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca-1WC7Or56Oao-XMD5yJDbdMReXY1tMh2IBg at public.gmane.org</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:00:14PM -0500, Fernando Parra wrote: +</I>><i> >> >The basic/novice user doesn't read anything, +</I>><i> >> remove basic/novice from the sentence and i will agree ;) +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >Are you agree with some like that? +</I>><i> >Only the geek/expert/professional users read? +</I>><i> I think most people don't read, sometime even geek/expert/professional +</I>><i> don't. This is probably due to an overload of information, and trying to +</I>><i> create messages that are actually 'seen' by users is becoming a new +</I>><i> branch of science. +</I>><i> +</I> +I will try to answer. Nobody reads, yes it's the true (I'm a teacher I really know about the situation), but there are a magic exception. The user reads when he wants something. By example a lot of my students has a Notebook or a Laptop, and always have installed the last version of MSN Live, and of course the latest versions of their favourite games. How we can explain that? Are all this programs magically installed? No they install them as their wishes. But first appear a nice message invite them to upgrade. + +><i> >> > doesn't request anything to some like a bugzilla, +</I>><i> >> but give him a forum and he probably will +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >Here I'm not completely sure, How many forums, blogs, etc. about software are there (including Windows, Mac and others)? and How many users they have? At present time the number of pc's in the entire world are estimated in 1,500 millions, the number of users can be estimated without force the numbers as a twice of this number. Worst, we are in the Wikipedia age; in example, when I request an investigation to my students, about any theme. I need strictly keep out Wikipedia (Oh well, yes Encarta too) as a valid source. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then it is difficult to do what user want, if we don't get any feedback. +</I>><i> +</I> +Well, you are right its difficult, but it isn't impossible. The big share of software publishers has statistics about at least of the number of downloads of their programs. And there are a lot of independent statistical measures. More, we have common sense (I hope!). And a final resource: we can make experiments, The Rolling Ligth program list shouldn't be like the 10 commandments (static per secula seculorum), As the software it is permanent state of change, the user's preferences are in a permanent evolution. + +><i> ... +</I>><i> >> Seriuosly speaking, i'd like to make a distinguo: +</I>><i> >> The real basic(*) user just uses a computer to get her work done, he +</I>><i> >> does not give a damn about a new version of firefox, kde or wathever, as +</I>><i> >> long as the version she is using is functioning. +</I>><i> ... +</I>><i> >Are you sure? I'll try to explain me with a practical example: I really don't remember what of the versions of the Open Office 3.x branch open the road to read and write the MS Office 2007 (docx, etc) but when its happen, it was "the great success" How many users really need this particular "goodie", I think a big share of them! +</I>><i> +</I>><i> well i had in mind a real life example when i wrote the above +</I>><i> ... +</I>><i> >> we should not mix the needs of this two categories, neither would like +</I>><i> >> it. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >Ok, I call these users "intermediate users" and here in Mexico we have an idiomatic expression for these situations: "El qué quiera azul celeste, ¡que le cueste!" A poor translation of that is: If someone want something special, pays for get it! +</I>><i> the above stands, these categories have different needs and whishes. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >> btw, we also have users interested in backports of stuff like openldap, +</I>><i> >> samba or such, these users will actually contribute to the technical +</I>><i> >> making of the distro, either by using bugzilla when they find bugs or +</I>><i> >> actually doing packaging work. Ignoring the will of such users will, +</I>><i> >> sooner or later, force mageia to employ paid personnel to do packaging +</I>><i> >> work. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >I disagree here, a big share of the users are sick (including me) of an illness called "versionitis gravis". Good I'm sick!:) As I can see there are two variants of the illness: +</I>><i> I just meant that many people working on packaging are also using the +</I>><i> distro for running servers, so we are interested in server stuff, which +</I>><i> the average user wont' prolly give a sh@@@ about. +</I> +Well, I'm thinking a lot in the server users, As a server administrator I'm very conservative (but it is only my POV) before to say anything I'm reading more opinions about the Rolling Light in servers. + +You can read an interesting thread a the discuss mail list, specially one of the mails is about a college that prefer install CentOS in their desktops PC, because they don't want to support two different distros, and they choose CentOS as a server. + +Well the ball is on the air. The Mageia Server should be a Rolling Ligth distro, yes or no? + +Regards from Mexico. +-- +Fernando Parra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx</A>> +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001247.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001249.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1245">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1245">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1245">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1245">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001246.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001246.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b8285875f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001246.html @@ -0,0 +1,146 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9dpgk%243od%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001244.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001247.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9dpgk%243od%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 17 05:11:16 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001244.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001247.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1246">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1246">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1246">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1246">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-10-16 18:35, Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +><i> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 21:29, Marc Paré<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> Le 2010-10-16 12:36, Ahmad Samir a écrit : +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> It's much better to help the user formulate a useful bug report, +</I>>>><i> that's easier / more productive for all involved parties. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> There would be no middle man. Once the middle-man could replicate the bug +</I>>><i> and verify the bug with other users, then the middle-man would submit to +</I>>><i> bugzilla. That's it. From there on, the middle-man will take care of testing +</I>>><i> requests from devs. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> As far as reporting back to the original user who reported the bug, as an +</I>>><i> extra gesture of kindness, the middle-man would just post on the "Report a +</I>>><i> bug" forum that the bug has been quashed or is still under review ... but +</I>>><i> not to the user but to the "Report a bug" forum. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> The idea is to keep the flow of possible bug reports coming in an organised +</I>>><i> way. The middle-man would have to be someone with a little more experience +</I>>><i> than that of a new user and also someone who has an interest in working this +</I>>><i> way. We will get more bug reports from users by keeping it simple and easy. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, and for everyone. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I tend to agree with Ahmad, as well as with you. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You may as well imagine we improve the Bugzilla process with a +</I>><i> front-process, guiding the reporter about her bug report. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That may be a forum with people active there, educating the user about +</I>><i> the bug and the reporting process; +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And/or that may be a better designed bug reporting process with a +</I>><i> better flow (providing and getting info to/from the user), querying a +</I>><i> knowledge-base, filtering known/resolved queries out of +</I>><i> yet-another-duplicate-bug-report and ultimately opening a bug in +</I>><i> Bugzilla with a specific interaction to the user (so she knows what +</I>><i> happens next).* +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That removes the middle-man issue and that filters out as well people +</I>><i> that are not concerned enough to report/follow-up on a bug (provided +</I>><i> the process is, indeed, better designed and better welcomes the end +</I>><i> user). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> * moreover, I believe this type of improvement would benefit many, +</I>><i> many, if not all, projects using a bug report tool. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Cheers, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Romain +</I>><i> +</I> +Thanks for the note Romain. + +I think what this all boils down to is, does the Mageia project want to +actively seek out bugs and encourage its users to report bugs? If Mageia +is interested in seriously quashing bugs, then the reporting process has +to be streamlined in such a way as to encourage the reporting of bug as +painlessly as possible for users. Human nature being what it is, people +will gladly report a bug if there is a way to do so quickly and easily. +However, it gets more complicated if you ask users to follow up on their +bug report, as in bugzilla. + +IMHO, it would be easier if Mageia offered users: + +-- The reporting of bugs through bugzilla as is usually done, and the +devs can work out these problems with the normal messaging that normally +goes along with the bugzilla process. + +-- For users who have no intention of being part of bugzilla and who +would still like to report a bug, a forum discussion where a "middle +man" or "bug facilitator" would help triage the bugs in this forum, +verify the bug and then submit it in their name. The user would not be +obligated from this point on to involve herself with the testing of +possible bug repairs. The "bug facilitator" would be obligated to the +usual bugzilla process. Of course if the user wished to learn more and +participate in the bugzilla process, then the "bug-facilitator" could +help mentor the user to the bugzilla process. + +This way the user would have 2 methods of reporting, one with a certain +amount of commitment and the other with no commitments other than +reporting and doing a quick verification with the help of the "bug +facilitator". + +The devs would not be part of this process and would work through the +bugzilla as usual. And the bug reporting would, IMOH, be more streamlined. + +Marc + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001244.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001247.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1246">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1246">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1246">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1246">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001247.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001247.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b096f6e28 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001247.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1287285550.4180.65.camel%40desktop.barefootcomputing.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001246.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001245.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Liam R E Quin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1287285550.4180.65.camel%40desktop.barefootcomputing.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">liam at holoweb.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 17 05:19:10 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001246.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001245.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1247">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1247">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1247">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1247">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 2010-10-16 at 23:11 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: + +[...] + +><i> I think what this all boils down to is, does the Mageia project want to +</I>><i> actively seek out bugs and encourage its users to report bugs? If Mageia +</I>><i> is interested in seriously quashing bugs, then the reporting process has +</I>><i> to be streamlined in such a way as to encourage the reporting of bug as +</I>><i> painlessly as possible for users. +</I> +It's a good question (although some projects prefer to keep it so that +the people reporting bugs tend to be the ones able to give a clear +description of the problem and ways to reproduce it)... but... + +Please do change the subject line if you go this-far off thread. + +I'm only checking each thread once a week or so and probably others +do the same, not trying to read every message, as the volume is too +high. But, more people could contribute if the mail-flood was easier. +Which is not unlike your point about the bugs :-) + +Best, + +Liam + +-- +Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, <A HREF="http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/">http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/</A> +Pictures from old books: <A HREF="http://fromoldbooks.org/">http://fromoldbooks.org/</A> +Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org www.advogato.org + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001246.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001245.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1247">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1247">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1247">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1247">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001248.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001248.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1dbe5bc6e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001248.html @@ -0,0 +1,335 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4CBA8327.2060307%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001253.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>andré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4CBA8327.2060307%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 17 07:01:27 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001253.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1248">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1248">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1248">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1248">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Fernando Parra a écrit : +><i> On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:42:03 +0100 +</I>><i> Buchan Milne<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bgmilne-tobu8poG+uhSwrhanM7KvQ at public.gmane.org</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> ... +</I>>><i> On Friday, 15 October 2010 03:48:56 Fernando Parra wrote: +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Hi everybody. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I feel that the concept of a new way, as it exist into my mind is not +</I>>>><i> completely understood. Let me try to re-explain again. Please be patient +</I>>>><i> and excuses any mistake with my English (I'm totally out of practice): +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I'm talking about to liberate to novice/novel/without experience user, +</I>>>><i> about concepts like backports, but I'm not talking about +</I>>>><i> close/disappear/eliminate/forgot backports. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Why? because a big share of them will arrive from a very different +</I>>>><i> environment (especially windows), and as you now, in there those concepts +</I>>>><i> are not only estrange, they simply don't exists. When a Windows user +</I>>>><i> wants/needs to update a program, as much the only thing that he/she must +</I>>>><i> do is unninstall the old/previous version and then install the new one. +</I>>>><i> +</I>With Mandriva and thus initially Mageia, often one only has to select +the new version, and the old version is automatically removed. +Otherwise the old version can be removed later. So we already have it +easier :) +>>><i> What programs? Following the same idea, about these kind of users, we +</I>>>><i> should ask: what programs they usually upgrade? The answer could be found +</I>>>><i> asking to the user's themselves, but certainly could be another ways. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Why not all backports? Reason 1: Because a lot of them don't care about the +</I>>>><i> new version of CUPS (in example) or the new version of Maxima (I'm sure +</I>>>><i> there are a lot clearly examples). Reason 2: Because there are packages +</I>>>><i> that may causes some incidents after upgrade them. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> How we can solve this situation? Offering a default automatic upgrade for a +</I>>>><i> small group of packages, especially when they change in an important way, +</I>>>><i> in example Firefox 3.6x 3.6x+ or to 4.x +</I>>>><i> +</I>This is simply not advisable. In the event of a problem resulting from +an automatic update, the user will have no idea what was done. So how +easy will it be to support the user in such a case ? All changes should +be expressly confirmed (or specifically requested) by the user. +>>><i> With this in mind: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> What aspects of the Mandriva backports solution are not satisfactory? +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> -The fact that not everything is available as a backport? +</I>>>>><i> +</I>True in the Microsoft windows environnement, as everywhere else. +>>><i> Not all are in backports, more these users don't want/understand a big +</I>>>><i> share of them +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> So, we must "dumb down" everything, and not provide openldap backports for +</I>>><i> people running servers who want a convenient way to run the software version +</I>>><i> that will allow them to file bugs upstream (OpenLDAP team doesn't respond to +</I>>><i> bugs filed on non-current releases)? +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Specially here the answer is obvious: The novice doesn't now what is OpenLDAP! and maybe he wont hear about it for the rest of his life. New versions of OpenLDAP should be stay available in the backports repository, not as an automatic available upgrade. +</I>><i> +</I>The user selects which backports they want. If they don't understand +OpenLDAP, they wouldn't have a reason to select it. +>>>><i> -That users don't know how to request a backport? +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> That is true, more, they don't want to learn about that, they only want a +</I>>>><i> new version of their favourite program. +</I>>>><i> +</I>They will only likely want a new version of their favorite program if +they know it is available. Which they will probably discover via backports. +>><i> What do we do in the case where a new version of some software is available, +</I>>><i> and has been sent to cooker? How do we decide whether it should go to +</I>>><i> backports or not? And for which releases? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> (FYI, for Mandriva users can typically request backports in bugzilla or on +</I>>><i> IRC, but we may need better means). +</I>>><i> +</I>Agree 100%. The presentation definitely needs improvement. +><i> Ok, first at all, we must deicide what packages (not all of them!) will be at the Rolling Ligth model. After that, all this packages must have an appropriate path. +</I>><i> +</I>>>>><i> -That too many backports are available? +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> This is matter of who are revising backports, for novice? Yes there are to +</I>>>><i> many. For the geek or the expert? Maybe never there will enough of them. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> -That all users don't get them by default? +</I>>>>><i> -That users doing network installs by default don't get the backport on +</I>>>>><i> initial installation? +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> No, they are not get them if we will use a potentially problematic +</I>>>><i> repository. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> -That users aren't aware of backports? +</I>>>>><i> -Something else? +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Panic? Fear? Baal, Luzbel and other demons in their minds? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Technically speaking? +</I>>>>><i> Less than 'urpmi --searchmedia Backports chromium' ? +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> If I was a novice my answer will be: What hell is that? +</I>>>><i> +</I>Obviously the novice user would use Rpmdrake via the MCC. +And Rpmdrake definitely needs improvement. +>><i> This was a response to 'users must do less', not 'it must be very easy'. At +</I>>><i> present, users need to do just one thing. We can fix the ease of doing that +</I>>><i> one thing, if we understand the problem correctly. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Some times easy doesn't means "do less", I think in this particular case must means Understandable. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I note you chose to leave out: +</I>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Or, should it be more obvious in rpmdrake or similar? How about +</I>>>>><i> commenting on my proposal for UI change in rpmdrake making backports +</I>>>>><i> more obvious? +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>><i> The proposal I refer to is: +</I>>><i> " +</I>>><i> Now, maybe the user interface needs to be improved. For example, maybe there +</I>>><i> should be no dropdown box, but instead when searching for a package by name, +</I>>><i> it should show you all the versions: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> ============================================================================ +</I>>><i> Find: | digikam | In: ->Graphical applications |By: ->Package Name +</I>>><i> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- +</I>>><i> Package| |Status | Action +</I>>><i> +digikam |Security update recommended |Update | +</I>>><i> - 1.3.0-1mdv |Installed |Uninstall | +</I>>><i> - 1.3.0-1.1mdv |Security Update |Update | +</I>>><i> - 1.4.0-4mdv |Unsupported upgrade (backport) |Upgrade | +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- +</I>>><i> digikam - A KDE ........ +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> ============================================================================= +</I>>><i> " +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Further, we could have some settings regarding what the user's preference is, +</I>>><i> and possibly even per-package. For example, maybe the user would not like only +</I>>><i> updates by default, except for chromium and pidgin where they want backports. +</I>>><i> Or, maybe another user wants all backports, except OpenOffice.org, where they +</I>>><i> just want updates. +</I>>><i> +</I>These are excellent ideas. +>>>><i> Again, before we can decide what *more* we should do (what significant +</I>>>>><i> resources we need to commit), maybe we should first understand why the +</I>>>>><i> existing features (which have significant effort behind them) are not +</I>>>>><i> resulting in user satisfaction. +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> More and more reasons to prepare very carefully our offer. All we here +</I>>>><i> appreciate those efforts and there are no way to send them to trash +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Personally I think a poll without educating everyone about what exactly +</I>>>>><i> each choice would mean is useless. We first need to elaborate detailed +</I>>>>><i> alternatives before anyone can make an informed choice. +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> IMHO, a democracy without education is not democracy, is populism. I agree +</I>>>><i> at all, we need first elaborate a well structured alternatives and then, +</I>>>><i> explicitly after inform and educate our community we can run a poll, or +</I>>>><i> prepare a council, or any other appropriated way. +</I>>>><i> +</I>I think that polls generally totally miss the mark, especially on +questions essentially technically based. What we are discussing at this +point is how to better present upgrade options to the end-user, be it +novice or experienced. Any polls should focus on what the user wants to +experience, and contributors to Mageia decide, based on their +competence, how to deliver it. +>>>><i> backports should be supported for security patches and bug fixes just +</I>>>>><i> like the main packages (if not instead of the main packages). +</I>>>>><i> Of course the security patch could be simply provided by backporting a +</I>>>>><i> newer version of the package, no need to make patches for each version. +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> That is essential, any upgrade must be supported (other valid reason for an +</I>>>><i> small group of packages). +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> Note that this can be difficult. For example, if (say) 2010.1 has shipped with +</I>>><i> samba 3.5.3, and let's say we shipped samba 3.5.5 in backports, now a security +</I>>><i> update is required, updates provides 3.5.3-1.1mdv with a patch, but 3.5.6 +</I>>><i> doesn't build without substantial work. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Now, in order to provide a rapid update, the maintainer now needs to either: +</I>>><i> -apply the patch to 3.5.5 and ship this to cooker and backports, and later +</I>>><i> work on 3.5.6 for cooker, and then send it to backports again +</I>>><i> -work on 3.5.6 until it works, and leave users without a security update for a +</I>>><i> few days +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> These decisions have quite an impact on the cost of supporting the distro ... +</I>>><i> +</I>It's not just creating the update that costs, also due to these changing +dependancies, dealing with bugs on various installations of the release +in question becomes much more problematic. Installing a backport is +generally more stable than installing a new version. +><i> Again, IHMO, these kind of packages (samba, nfs, cups, etc.) now are in the main repository, and of course they must be frozen, except for security updates, and if a new version occurs, it should be in backports repository or in Cauldron or at any place that will be appropriated. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> What I mean is basically when new updates get presented (which would +</I>>>>><i> include new backports) the user could untick specific packages (as is +</I>>>>><i> possible now) but also have a second tick-box to store the choice +</I>>>>><i> permanently in the skip.list. +</I>>>>><i> This would give the user more choice of which packages he wants to always +</I>>>>><i> update to the newest version and wich ones he/she prefers to keep frozen +</I>>>>><i> at the same version. +</I>>>>><i> +</I>Good idea. The white-list (preferred newer versions) would probably be +more useful, but the black-list would be very useful to avoid installing +packages known to be problematic on the user's system. +>>><i> Please try to explain that to my grandma, or maybe you could be lucky with +</I>>>><i> some of my students. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> How easy this is to use depends on the UI. For example, the updates window +</I>>><i> could be reduced to be "Apply all recommended updates", "Apply only security +</I>>><i> updates", and "Advanced", which would show the list of packages to update (and +</I>>><i> provide options similar to the above, but slightly different). Your grandma +</I>>><i> shouldn't click the "Advanced" button. +</I>>><i> +</I>I think that all updates should be specifically confirmed. Otherwise, +it's a bit like driving a car blind-folded, and later wondering why one +had an accident. +It is a good idea to tag updates as "security", "recommended", etc. +Implicitly, an advanced user is more likely to decide otherwise. +But anyone who is intelligent enough to use a computer should be +respected enough to at least confirm updates. +><i> If my grandma watch the word "Advanced", she simply call me by phone and order me: Come here right now!. +</I>>><i> Regards, +</I>>><i> Buchan +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Let me relate a true history (and it isn't a joke): few years ago, I was a technical support manager in an international bank, my main task was to have running all time, all computers in the bank (2000). When my guys were responding to a request for support, and when asked: +</I>><i> What happened? the first response was: +</I>><i> I did nothing! +</I>><i> Okay, a message appeared on the screen? +</I>><i> Oh yes, but did not understand, then I hit the OK button. +</I>><i> What was wrote in the Message? +</I>><i> I'm not a technician, I didn't read it. +</I>><i> Mmmm, and now what is the problem? +</I>><i> Are you blind?, I can not start Word! (Or print or whatever) +</I>><i> +</I>And you didn't train your users ? From personal experience, most users +learn quickly to copy error messages that appear on the screen - even +those who initially seem totally inept. I regularly trained users who +initially required a lot of hand-holding to let me reliably troubleshoot +by telephone. But it does take a little patience. +Of course, novice home users will be more problematic, since they will +often use the computer much less. +><i> I heard hundreds of times these kind of absurd conversations. +</I>><i> The basic/novice user doesn't read anything, doesn't request anything to some like a bugzilla, If you show on his screen some like your proposal, he usually take one of two different ways: 1) Check all the options or maybe worst 2) Close the window and he will think: "Oh hell, Why Linux is so hard?" +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Anyway, after decide what packages will be in the Rolling Light, The OS must be gentle with the user and show a Window with a Message like that: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There are available a new version of Firefox(as an example). Do you want to install it? +</I>><i> NO, Maybe Later, Show me more information, Yes +</I>><i> +</I>That is entirely possible with a Mandriva-like system. Stable 6-month +releases, with security updates and backports available. How would a +so-called rolling update system do it better ? +Note that the 6-month releases don't have to be installed every time. +Also, even if done, this installation process is simple - and much +faster than installing Microsoft's excuse of an operating system. +><i> Please take in mind that we are trying to get a considerable number of new users. If we just keep doing things like today, we will certainly have new users, but they probably come from other distributions. +</I>><i> +</I>Note that Mandriva has the reputation of being one of the most friendly +Linux systems available. But powerful enough for serious users and +servers. So Mageia, with its stronger community focus, will probably be +one of the distros most capable of attracting non-Linux users. +Not counting the advertising budget of Ubuntu, of course. +><i> ... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> IHMO before to discuss what are the technical conflicts, we need to evaluate the benefits of any proposal focusing the point of view on what the users needs/wants. +</I>><i> +</I>Evaluate the benefits in terms of what the user wants to experience -- +those with the technical competence must decide how to deliver. +><i> As we said in Mexico: My home is your home. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Regards from México. +</I>><i> +</I> +my 2 cents :) +- André (andre999) +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001253.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1248">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1248">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1248">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1248">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001249.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001249.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9c11b9440 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001249.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Cop.vkpmzvoin7mcit%40hodgins.homeip.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001245.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001250.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>David W. Hodgins</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Cop.vkpmzvoin7mcit%40hodgins.homeip.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">davidwhodgins at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 17 09:56:10 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001245.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001250.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1249">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1249">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1249">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1249">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 19:15:30 -0400, Fernando Parra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx</A>> wrote: + + +><i> Well the ball is on the air. The Mageia Server should be a Rolling Ligth distro, yes or no? +</I> +The problem I've experienced with the current Mandriva release cycle +is with one friend, who has a slow system. It took 13 hours to go + from 2010.0 to 2010.1, even though (I'm guessing) the bulk of the files +being downloaded were identical (except for the release number, and +date of build), to what he already had. + +The same upgrade only took a couple of hours, on my system. He has a +faster internet connection, but a much slower computer. I thought the +faster download would be more important than the speed of the system, +so I mistakenly gave him a 4 hour guesstimate. + +I'm not a pc developer, so I don't know why things are being done the +way they are, but expecting a user to spend half a day updating, every +six months (or year), really annoys new users. My background is ibm +370 asm, cobol, pl/1, fortran, mark iv, roscoe, tso, db2, ims dc/db, etc. + +I know enough c, perl, python, etc., that I can sometimes figure out +where the problem is, (when submitting bug reports), but I don't know +enough to put together rpm packages, or where to start, to learn how +to do so. + +Regards, Dave Hodgins +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001245.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001250.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1249">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1249">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1249">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1249">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001250.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001250.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..490895643 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001250.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikJFAjbqVUKA-Q_BjA6ueWAFngTcp8EmLfj54V%3D%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001249.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001251.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Ahmad Samir</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikJFAjbqVUKA-Q_BjA6ueWAFngTcp8EmLfj54V%3D%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 17 10:11:56 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001249.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001251.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1250">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1250">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1250">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1250">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 17 October 2010 09:56, David W. Hodgins <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">davidwhodgins at gmail.com</A>> wrote: +><i> On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 19:15:30 -0400, Fernando Parra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx</A>> +</I>><i> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Well the ball is on the air. The Mageia Server should be a Rolling Ligth +</I>>><i> distro, yes or no? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The problem I've experienced with the current Mandriva release cycle +</I>><i> is with one friend, who has a slow system.  It took 13 hours to go +</I>><i> from 2010.0 to 2010.1, even though (I'm guessing) the bulk of the files +</I>><i> being downloaded were identical (except for the release number, and +</I>><i> date of build), to what he already had. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The same upgrade only took a couple of hours, on my system.  He has a +</I>><i> faster internet connection, but a much slower computer.  I thought the +</I>><i> faster download would be more important than the speed of the system, +</I>><i> so I mistakenly gave him a 4 hour guesstimate. +</I>><i> +</I> +A bit off-topic: What took a long time exactly? downloading the +package or installing them? + +I am asking because I upgraded, more than one, virtualbox installs, it +never took more than 30min. to install the new packages (that's +leaving out the time it took to download them, which has more to do +with the download rate what with having a slow/fast system). + +><i> I'm not a pc developer, so I don't know why things are being done the +</I>><i> way they are, but expecting a user to spend half a day updating, every +</I>><i> six months (or year), really annoys new users. My background is ibm +</I>><i> 370 asm, cobol, pl/1, fortran, mark iv, roscoe, tso, db2, ims dc/db, etc. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I know enough c, perl, python, etc., that I can sometimes figure out +</I>><i> where the problem is, (when submitting bug reports), but I don't know +</I>><i> enough to put together rpm packages, or where to start, to learn how +</I>><i> to do so. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Regards, Dave Hodgins +</I>><i> +</I> + + +-- +Ahmad Samir +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001249.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001251.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1250">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1250">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1250">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1250">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001251.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001251.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ec6a5e6a2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001251.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010171030060.17350-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001250.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001252.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010171030060.17350-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 17 10:34:32 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001250.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001252.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1251">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1251">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1251">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1251">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, 17 Oct 2010, David W. Hodgins wrote: + +><i> I know enough c, perl, python, etc., that I can sometimes figure out +</I>><i> where the problem is, (when submitting bug reports), but I don't know +</I>><i> enough to put together rpm packages, or where to start, to learn how +</I>><i> to do so. +</I> +Making rpm packages is actually a lot easier than writing C, Perl or +Python code, so with your background it would be very easy for you to +learn how to make a package. + +Have a look here, these instructions explain it well, I learnt it from +there: +<A HREF="http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Development/Howto/RPM">http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Development/Howto/RPM</A> + + + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001250.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001252.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1251">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1251">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1251">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1251">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001252.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001252.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d70f75c40 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001252.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9epmo%241u6%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001251.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001253.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9epmo%241u6%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 17 14:20:39 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001251.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001253.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1252">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1252">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1252">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1252">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-10-17 04:34, Tux99 a écrit : +><i> On Sun, 17 Oct 2010, David W. Hodgins wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I know enough c, perl, python, etc., that I can sometimes figure out +</I>>><i> where the problem is, (when submitting bug reports), but I don't know +</I>>><i> enough to put together rpm packages, or where to start, to learn how +</I>>><i> to do so. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Making rpm packages is actually a lot easier than writing C, Perl or +</I>><i> Python code, so with your background it would be very easy for you to +</I>><i> learn how to make a package. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Have a look here, these instructions explain it well, I learnt it from +</I>><i> there: +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Development/Howto/RPM">http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Development/Howto/RPM</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I> +Thanks for the link Tux99, I am interested in this too. + +Marc + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001251.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001253.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1252">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1252">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1252">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1252">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001253.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001253.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..12e1966c2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/001253.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTin0%3DEGgAJX91w2S7nDbdQdakXP6eCX7EHusOfhk%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001252.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001248.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>atilla ontas</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTin0%3DEGgAJX91w2S7nDbdQdakXP6eCX7EHusOfhk%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">tarakbumba at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 17 21:28:03 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001252.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001248.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1253">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1253">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1253">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1253">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi. If you interested, Mandriva Turkiye Community poll ended about +release cycle. Here are the results: + +*Exactly as Mandriva, 6 months release cycle 18.2% +*Like OpenSuse, 8-9 months release cycle 13.6% +*One release a year 31.8% +* 6 months cycle for core, rolling release model other for other software 4.5% +* Rolling release 31.8% +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001252.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001248.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1253">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1253">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1253">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1253">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b270dba79 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 17 October 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>17 October 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 00:35:37 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:03 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 10<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001249.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1249"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001245.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1245"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001246.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1246"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001252.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1252"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001247.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1247"> </A> +<I>Liam R E Quin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001250.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1250"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001251.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1251"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001248.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1248"> </A> +<I>andré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001244.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1244"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001253.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1253"> </A> +<I>atilla ontas +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:03 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:07 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1768e17bf --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 17 October 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>17 October 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 00:35:37 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:03 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 10<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001244.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1244"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001245.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1245"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001246.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1246"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001247.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1247"> </A> +<I>Liam R E Quin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001248.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1248"> </A> +<I>andré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001249.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1249"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001250.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1250"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001251.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1251"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001252.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1252"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001253.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1253"> </A> +<I>atilla ontas +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:03 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:07 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ee46104e0 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 17 October 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>17 October 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 00:35:37 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:03 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 10<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001244.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1244"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001245.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1245"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001246.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1246"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001247.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1247"> </A> +<I>Liam R E Quin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001248.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1248"> </A> +<I>andré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001249.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1249"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001250.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1250"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001251.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1251"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001252.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1252"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001253.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1253"> </A> +<I>atilla ontas +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:03 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:07 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..019dfd17c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101017/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,117 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 17 October 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>17 October 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 00:35:37 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:03 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 10<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01287268537- --> +<LI><A HREF="001244.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1244"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287268537-01287285076- --> +<LI><A HREF="001246.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1246"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01287268537-01287285076-01287285550- --> +<LI><A HREF="001247.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1247"> </A> +<I>Liam R E Quin +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01287270930- --> +<LI><A HREF="001245.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1245"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287270930-01287302170- --> +<LI><A HREF="001249.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1249"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01287270930-01287302170-01287303116- --> +<LI><A HREF="001250.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1250"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<!--2 01287270930-01287302170-01287304472- --> +<LI><A HREF="001251.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1251"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01287270930-01287302170-01287304472-01287318039- --> +<LI><A HREF="001252.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1252"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<!--3 01287270930-01287302170-01287304472-01287318039-01287343683- --> +<LI><A HREF="001253.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1253"> </A> +<I>atilla ontas +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01287291687- --> +<LI><A HREF="001248.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1248"> </A> +<I>andré +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:03 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Oct 17 21:28:07 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |