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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617 | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
| download | archives-master.tar archives-master.tar.gz archives-master.tar.bz2 archives-master.tar.xz archives-master.zip | |
Diffstat (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617')
8 files changed, 298 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/0a76ff20/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/0a76ff20/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3569a555b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/0a76ff20/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,53 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> +<html> + <head> + <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" + http-equiv="Content-Type"> + </head> + <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> + by <strong><a +href="https://forums.mageia.org/en/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=77" + style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204);" class="username-coloured">wobo</a></strong> + » Jun 17th, '11, 18:50 + <div class="content">Several points jumped through my synapses + reading Trio3b's post.<br> + <br> + A thought I had many times before: are the users ready for such + Linux distributions? I do not mean any technical skills, no user + is supposed to learn how to create scripts and configure things by + editing config files any more. But I often see that users lack the + mindset, the way of thinking which is required by administrating + your own *nix system. One nice example was the KDE switch to 4.x + which Trio3b described as fiasco. But was this fiasco not really + caused by the users demand for "the latest" although KDE stated + that 4.0 (and a few following versions) were not for userland? + With the proper mindset users without development skills would + have stayed away from KDE 4 until it was declared as + "userland-ready", which was with 4.2 [1]. This is just one example + but could also be ported to other "fiascos".<br> + <br> + As often said, Linux is a system which forces the user to be a + sysadmin as well - but as a sysadmin you think different than a + user does. IMHO this is one point which is not communicated enough + to the user. Of course, marketing would have a fit seeing the + question "Are you ready to be a sysadmin?" all over the portal + site of our Linux distribution. But isn't this really the question + here when we talk about backports, updates, rolling releases and + all the rest? These are expressions and tasks for a sysadmin, not + a user. <br> + <br> + In business we do have IT departments and sysadmins who care for + those things - your average Dilbert in his cubicle is not supposed + to care for updates. But for the user at home we see this dual + personality with the different mindsets to be a given fact. Is + that so?<br> + <br> + As you can see, I did not aim at a certain conclusion here, I just + let my thoughts roam free (could well be an exposé for a editor's + article). <br> + <br> + [1] Of course, for the real "fiasco" we have to blame a certain + distribution as well which could not wait to be "the first to + offer the new KDE!" and thus caused other distributions to follow.</div> + </body> +</html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/0a76ff20/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/0a76ff20/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3569a555b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/0a76ff20/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,53 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> +<html> + <head> + <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" + http-equiv="Content-Type"> + </head> + <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> + by <strong><a +href="https://forums.mageia.org/en/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=77" + style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204);" class="username-coloured">wobo</a></strong> + » Jun 17th, '11, 18:50 + <div class="content">Several points jumped through my synapses + reading Trio3b's post.<br> + <br> + A thought I had many times before: are the users ready for such + Linux distributions? I do not mean any technical skills, no user + is supposed to learn how to create scripts and configure things by + editing config files any more. But I often see that users lack the + mindset, the way of thinking which is required by administrating + your own *nix system. One nice example was the KDE switch to 4.x + which Trio3b described as fiasco. But was this fiasco not really + caused by the users demand for "the latest" although KDE stated + that 4.0 (and a few following versions) were not for userland? + With the proper mindset users without development skills would + have stayed away from KDE 4 until it was declared as + "userland-ready", which was with 4.2 [1]. This is just one example + but could also be ported to other "fiascos".<br> + <br> + As often said, Linux is a system which forces the user to be a + sysadmin as well - but as a sysadmin you think different than a + user does. IMHO this is one point which is not communicated enough + to the user. Of course, marketing would have a fit seeing the + question "Are you ready to be a sysadmin?" all over the portal + site of our Linux distribution. But isn't this really the question + here when we talk about backports, updates, rolling releases and + all the rest? These are expressions and tasks for a sysadmin, not + a user. <br> + <br> + In business we do have IT departments and sysadmins who care for + those things - your average Dilbert in his cubicle is not supposed + to care for updates. But for the user at home we see this dual + personality with the different mindsets to be a given fact. Is + that so?<br> + <br> + As you can see, I did not aim at a certain conclusion here, I just + let my thoughts roam free (could well be an exposé for a editor's + article). <br> + <br> + [1] Of course, for the real "fiasco" we have to blame a certain + distribution as well which could not wait to be "the first to + offer the new KDE!" and thus caused other distributions to follow.</div> + </body> +</html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment-0001.gif b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment-0001.gif Binary files differnew file mode 100644 index 000000000..fb1c1402d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment-0001.gif diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e158ceaef --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,35 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> +<html> + <head> + <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" + http-equiv="Content-Type"> + </head> + <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> + by <strong><a +href="https://forums.mageia.org/en/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=82">magnus</a></strong> + » Jun 17th, '11, 19:26 I think the whole discussion is dominated by + "technical" users.<br> + I, as a simple user, need a stable, secure system where I can use my + applications.<br> + <br> + Gnome 2, 3, 4 ??? KDE 4.6, 4. 7, 5.0 ??? What does it matter.<br> + At the office a must use a system called xp, but for our 10.000 + girls and boys it runs stable.<br> + That's it.<br> + <br> + I admit, this is a very simple view. <br> + But for me and a lot of users a very important criterion.<br> + I don`t believe this can provide a "rolling release" (in the + moment).<br> + <br> + So I prefer a a reasonable release cycle with enough time for the + development and the qa.<br> + For example, a new release every nine months brings me the new + developments, not just the latest. <br> + But I can also update my system with a clear conscience and without + great risks.<br> + <br> + The technicans can play with cauldron and the latest developments <img + src="cid:part1.02030200.07090201@free.fr" alt=";-)" title="Wink"><br> + </body> +</html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment.gif b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment.gif Binary files differnew file mode 100644 index 000000000..fb1c1402d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment.gif diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e158ceaef --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/906ffe59/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,35 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> +<html> + <head> + <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" + http-equiv="Content-Type"> + </head> + <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> + by <strong><a +href="https://forums.mageia.org/en/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=82">magnus</a></strong> + » Jun 17th, '11, 19:26 I think the whole discussion is dominated by + "technical" users.<br> + I, as a simple user, need a stable, secure system where I can use my + applications.<br> + <br> + Gnome 2, 3, 4 ??? KDE 4.6, 4. 7, 5.0 ??? What does it matter.<br> + At the office a must use a system called xp, but for our 10.000 + girls and boys it runs stable.<br> + That's it.<br> + <br> + I admit, this is a very simple view. <br> + But for me and a lot of users a very important criterion.<br> + I don`t believe this can provide a "rolling release" (in the + moment).<br> + <br> + So I prefer a a reasonable release cycle with enough time for the + development and the qa.<br> + For example, a new release every nine months brings me the new + developments, not just the latest. <br> + But I can also update my system with a clear conscience and without + great risks.<br> + <br> + The technicans can play with cauldron and the latest developments <img + src="cid:part1.02030200.07090201@free.fr" alt=";-)" title="Wink"><br> + </body> +</html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/e17a3bfb/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/e17a3bfb/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..15bc20ad5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/e17a3bfb/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> +<html> + <head> + <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" + http-equiv="Content-Type"> + <title></title> + </head> + <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> + by <strong><a +href="https://forums.mageia.org/en/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=395">Trio3b</a></strong> + » Jun 17th, '11, 17:55 + <div class="content">Must preface this reply by saying I am not a + coder, developer, packager. Just an end user. Long time MDV user + (ver. 10.0). I have tried almost every distro out there for fun + but on my main desktop I use MDV 2008.1KDE3.5.x and have stuck + with it b/c it is used for business.<br> + <br> + I have been tinkering with PCLOS for the past two years. It is + very easy to succumb to the "grass is greener" mindset and I too + have fallen into that trap with PCLOS. It really is a fine distro + (originally and to some extent still based on MDV) but have come + to the conclusion that for fun, upgrading/Updating is fine, but + for day to day business use it is not really an option. <br> + <br> + I understand that Mageia has little or no control over certain + elements of the IT landscape.Witness KDE fiasco with distro forums + full of problems, breaks, memory leaks, Plasma configuration + problems. I have experienced that with PCLOS being a rolling + distro so I have NOT migrated to it for business as of yet.<br> + <br> + I believe that a great deal of credibility can be given to + opensource if it can be seen to be stable and useable for long + periods of time in the business community. I haven't a clue about + the technical requirements in determining a release schedule but + can speak from a users standpoint and that is many small + businesses such as myself CAN NOT employ technology people. I + really enjoy installing and configuring linux OS on various + hardware but I have to be realistic and stand firm in the belief + that if one of my office crew is faced with a blank screen (as has + happened with recent PCLOS2011.6 test release), then the fun of + "fixing" it must take a back seat to getting on with work.<br> + <br> + It is mentioned that several releases can be maintained at the + same time. Can't a long term stable release be made to sync up + with new advances every couple years, with the long term user + UNDERSTANDING that a major reinstall will be necessary at the end + of that 2-3 yr . THAT IS INFINITELY preferable to an upgrade that + breaks something. <br> + <br> + Speaking of planning, when you KNOW you have to upgrade you will + have your work flow and backups planned. An upgrade that breaks a + system disrupts workflow and even if you have data backed up it + destroys confidence in the ability of the software to support + workflow.<br> + <br> + Workflow disruption is an enemy to running a business and constant + KDE4 upgrades have kept me from leaving KDE3.5.x <br> + <br> + Hope this helps some devs</div> + </body> +</html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/e17a3bfb/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/e17a3bfb/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..15bc20ad5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20110617/e17a3bfb/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> +<html> + <head> + <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" + http-equiv="Content-Type"> + <title></title> + </head> + <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> + by <strong><a +href="https://forums.mageia.org/en/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=395">Trio3b</a></strong> + » Jun 17th, '11, 17:55 + <div class="content">Must preface this reply by saying I am not a + coder, developer, packager. Just an end user. Long time MDV user + (ver. 10.0). I have tried almost every distro out there for fun + but on my main desktop I use MDV 2008.1KDE3.5.x and have stuck + with it b/c it is used for business.<br> + <br> + I have been tinkering with PCLOS for the past two years. It is + very easy to succumb to the "grass is greener" mindset and I too + have fallen into that trap with PCLOS. It really is a fine distro + (originally and to some extent still based on MDV) but have come + to the conclusion that for fun, upgrading/Updating is fine, but + for day to day business use it is not really an option. <br> + <br> + I understand that Mageia has little or no control over certain + elements of the IT landscape.Witness KDE fiasco with distro forums + full of problems, breaks, memory leaks, Plasma configuration + problems. I have experienced that with PCLOS being a rolling + distro so I have NOT migrated to it for business as of yet.<br> + <br> + I believe that a great deal of credibility can be given to + opensource if it can be seen to be stable and useable for long + periods of time in the business community. I haven't a clue about + the technical requirements in determining a release schedule but + can speak from a users standpoint and that is many small + businesses such as myself CAN NOT employ technology people. I + really enjoy installing and configuring linux OS on various + hardware but I have to be realistic and stand firm in the belief + that if one of my office crew is faced with a blank screen (as has + happened with recent PCLOS2011.6 test release), then the fun of + "fixing" it must take a back seat to getting on with work.<br> + <br> + It is mentioned that several releases can be maintained at the + same time. Can't a long term stable release be made to sync up + with new advances every couple years, with the long term user + UNDERSTANDING that a major reinstall will be necessary at the end + of that 2-3 yr . THAT IS INFINITELY preferable to an upgrade that + breaks something. <br> + <br> + Speaking of planning, when you KNOW you have to upgrade you will + have your work flow and backups planned. An upgrade that breaks a + system disrupts workflow and even if you have data backed up it + destroys confidence in the ability of the software to support + workflow.<br> + <br> + Workflow disruption is an enemy to running a business and constant + KDE4 upgrades have kept me from leaving KDE3.5.x <br> + <br> + Hope this helps some devs</div> + </body> +</html> |
