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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112 | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
| download | archives-master.tar archives-master.tar.gz archives-master.tar.bz2 archives-master.tar.xz archives-master.zip | |
Diffstat (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112')
34 files changed, 3626 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002071.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002071.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7a31fbec6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002071.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C1294787564.32187.125.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002072.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C1294787564.32187.125.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 00:12:44 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002072.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2071">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2071">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2071">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2071">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 20:03 +0100, Marcello Anni a écrit : +><i> hi all, +</I>><i> i have one question (maybe it can be a proposal): is it possible to implement +</I>><i> the torrent protocol to faster download the updates of the distro? it could be +</I>><i> an interesting features for the coming Mageia releases +</I> +I think the issue of faster download could be simply taken care by +having more mirror, or faster one. + +I had under the impression that some ISP throttle down bittorrent, and +that it may not be very nat and firewall friendly.. +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002072.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2071">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2071">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2071">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2071">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002072.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002072.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4b0ac8896 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002072.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikkGCCJDvQ9RQi6gmazD1ZvuGq1qBJTfoo5pB7K%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002071.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002078.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Per Øyvind Karlsen</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikkGCCJDvQ9RQi6gmazD1ZvuGq1qBJTfoo5pB7K%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">peroyvind at mandriva.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 00:45:35 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002071.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002078.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2072">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2072">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2072">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2072">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2011/1/12 Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>>: +><i> Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 20:03 +0100, Marcello Anni a écrit : +</I>>><i> hi all, +</I>>><i> i have one question (maybe it can be a proposal): is it possible to implement +</I>>><i> the torrent protocol to faster download the updates of the distro? it could be +</I>>><i> an interesting features for the coming Mageia releases +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think the issue of faster download could be simply taken care by +</I>><i> having more mirror, or faster one. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I had under the impression that some ISP throttle down bittorrent, and +</I>><i> that it may not be very nat and firewall friendly.. +</I> +aria2 amongst others has bittorrent support though, so metalinks with +ftp/http/++ mirrors together with torrents could help combine them all +together. :) + +-- +Regards, +Per Øyvind +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002071.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002078.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2072">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2072">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2072">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2072">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002073.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002073.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6f1c57115 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002073.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2D15D6.5020404%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002078.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002074.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2D15D6.5020404%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 03:45:42 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002078.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002074.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2073">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2073">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2073">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2073">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael Scherer a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 20:03 +0100, Marcello Anni a écrit : +</I>>><i> hi all, +</I>>><i> i have one question (maybe it can be a proposal): is it possible to implement +</I>>><i> the torrent protocol to faster download the updates of the distro? it could be +</I>>><i> an interesting features for the coming Mageia releases +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think the issue of faster download could be simply taken care by +</I>><i> having more mirror, or faster one. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I had under the impression that some ISP throttle down bittorrent, and +</I>><i> that it may not be very nat and firewall friendly.. +</I> +Some suggestions for faster downloads without bittorrent. +1) use aria2c (or a similar application), which uses multiple +connections, defaulting to 5, and allows multiple mirrors. +By default it starts by allocating space for the file to be downloaded, +which allows non-sequential downloading of the file, facilitating faster +downloading from multiple sites. + +2) use mirrors which allow multiple connexions. +(Of course, with download software that takes advantage of this.) + +3) use multiple mirrors. +(Again, according to download software.) + +4) use ftp instead of http + +5) use closer mirrors. (less delay in handshaking, etc.) + +In my case, using aria2c with 2 mirrors and the default 5 connexions is +at least 3 times as fast as a single connexion (to my closest mirror). +And a much greater improvement over other download options I've tried. + +I also have configured rpmdrake to use aria2c -- it seems to give me +faster and more reliable updating, but I don't have any figures. + +aria2c is a console app, but it works well enough for me that I haven't +(yet) bothered to install the available GUI frontend. + +-- +André +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002078.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002074.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2073">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2073">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2073">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2073">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002074.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002074.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..178ab6889 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002074.html @@ -0,0 +1,149 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C1294802984.32187.273.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002073.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002075.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C1294802984.32187.273.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 04:29:43 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002073.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002075.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2074">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2074">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2074">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2074">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 21:45 -0500, andre999 a écrit : +><i> Michael Scherer a écrit : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 20:03 +0100, Marcello Anni a écrit : +</I>><i> >> hi all, +</I>><i> >> i have one question (maybe it can be a proposal): is it possible to implement +</I>><i> >> the torrent protocol to faster download the updates of the distro? it could be +</I>><i> >> an interesting features for the coming Mageia releases +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I think the issue of faster download could be simply taken care by +</I>><i> > having more mirror, or faster one. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I had under the impression that some ISP throttle down bittorrent, and +</I>><i> > that it may not be very nat and firewall friendly.. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Some suggestions for faster downloads without bittorrent. +</I>><i> 1) use aria2c (or a similar application), which uses multiple +</I>><i> connections, defaulting to 5, and allows multiple mirrors. +</I>><i> By default it starts by allocating space for the file to be downloaded, +</I>><i> which allows non-sequential downloading of the file, facilitating faster +</I>><i> downloading from multiple sites. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 2) use mirrors which allow multiple connexions. +</I>><i> (Of course, with download software that takes advantage of this.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 3) use multiple mirrors. +</I>><i> (Again, according to download software.) +</I> +Theses 3 suggestions basically put X time the load of the mirror for +each client. ( or on more mirror, for that matters ). + +And that's quite bad from the point of view of a mirror manager. + +For example, distrib-coffee could blacklist you if you do this, if you +are not alone on your network connexion. And when we deployed this +measure to protect the server, the limit was 2 connexion per address, +since this was taking too much ressources on the old server ( each http +request taking 1 process and so memory ). Hopefully, the hardware was +upgraded but not everybody can afford 32g of ram and 8*2 ghz CPU. + +[<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">root at distrib-coffee</A> ~]# grep -B 6 -A 3 +MaxConnPerIP /etc/httpd/conf.d/distrib-coffee.conf + +<Directory /var/ftp/pub> + order allow,deny + Allow from all + Options +Indexes +MultiViews +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch + <IfModule mod_limitipconn.c> + MaxConnPerIP 5 + ErrorDocument 503 "5 connections at the same time only allowed." + </IfModule> +</Directory> + +So I think pissing off mirror maintainers is likely the wrong way of +solving the problem ( who was not properly explained nor looked at +besides "it should be faster" ). + +><i> 4) use ftp instead of http +</I> +Based on ? + +If this is based on using d-c, again, that's our custom QOS rules. If +this is because of throttling on your provider, not everybody have the +same provider, and so the same throttling. +The only difference between http and ftp is that ftp server will likely +scale better server side. But that should have no impact on file serving +and download ( both nowadays use fast syscall, such as sendfile, etc ). + +><i> 5) use closer mirrors. (less delay in handshaking, etc.) +</I> +I think tcp handshake is not much a problem, given the fact it happen +once per rpm, compared to the number of tcp packet for the rest of the +download. Use wireshark to see. + + +><i> In my case, using aria2c with 2 mirrors and the default 5 connexions is +</I>><i> at least 3 times as fast as a single connexion (to my closest mirror). +</I>><i> And a much greater improvement over other download options I've tried. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I also have configured rpmdrake to use aria2c -- it seems to give me +</I>><i> faster and more reliable updating, but I don't have any figures. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> aria2c is a console app, but it works well enough for me that I haven't +</I>><i> (yet) bothered to install the available GUI frontend. +</I> +That's because it worked in your case that it would work for every +possible case, especially without giving a proper analysis of the issue +on your side. + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002073.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002075.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2074">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2074">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2074">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2074">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002075.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002075.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f98bd12f8 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002075.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimftsV3tabyEmOCsv3P9QOwV6umD5G9KqP%3DkPrQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002074.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002084.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Thierry Vignaud</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimftsV3tabyEmOCsv3P9QOwV6umD5G9KqP%3DkPrQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">thierry.vignaud at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 08:05:30 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002074.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002084.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2075">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2075">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2075">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2075">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 12 January 2011 04:29, Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +><i> For example, distrib-coffee could blacklist you if you do this, if you +</I>><i> are not alone on your network connexion. And when we deployed this +</I>><i> measure to protect the server, the limit was 2 connexion per address, +</I>><i> since this was taking too much ressources on the old server ( each http +</I>><i> request taking 1 process and so memory ). +</I> +switching to nginx would help that + +><i> Hopefully, the hardware was +</I>><i> upgraded but not everybody can afford 32g of ram and 8*2 ghz CPU. +</I></PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002074.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002084.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2075">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2075">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2075">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2075">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002076.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002076.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c4506e603 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002076.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimah9xUw037wHRahUXbMvkB%3DeCdV-oL90PtPOcY%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002084.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002080.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimah9xUw037wHRahUXbMvkB%3DeCdV-oL90PtPOcY%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 09:43:13 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002084.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002080.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2076">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2076">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2076">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2076">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 04:29, Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +><i> Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 21:45 -0500, andre999 a écrit : +</I>>><i> Some suggestions for faster downloads without bittorrent. +</I>>><i> 1) use aria2c (or a similar application), which uses multiple +</I>>><i> connections, defaulting to 5, and allows multiple mirrors. +</I>>><i> By default it starts by allocating space for the file to be downloaded, +</I>>><i> which allows non-sequential downloading of the file, facilitating faster +</I>>><i> downloading from multiple sites. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> 2) use mirrors which allow multiple connexions. +</I>>><i> (Of course, with download software that takes advantage of this.) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> 3) use multiple mirrors. +</I>>><i> (Again, according to download software.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Theses 3 suggestions basically put X time the load of the mirror for +</I>><i> each client. ( or on more mirror, for that matters ). +</I> +However, if 1) was to open 5 connections on 5 distinct servers, that +would make more sense, no? + +But then I'm not sure there is so much more value than using a P2P protocol. + +Romain +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002084.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002080.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2076">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2076">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2076">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2076">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002077.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002077.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..200ff664e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002077.html @@ -0,0 +1,211 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2D6CF4.6010309%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002083.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002082.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2D6CF4.6010309%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 09:57:24 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002083.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002082.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2077">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2077">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2077">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2077">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael Scherer a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 21:45 -0500, andre999 a écrit : +</I>>><i> Michael Scherer a écrit : +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 20:03 +0100, Marcello Anni a écrit : +</I>>>>><i> hi all, +</I>>>>><i> i have one question (maybe it can be a proposal): is it possible to implement +</I>>>>><i> the torrent protocol to faster download the updates of the distro? it could be +</I>>>>><i> an interesting features for the coming Mageia releases +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I think the issue of faster download could be simply taken care by +</I>>>><i> having more mirror, or faster one. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I had under the impression that some ISP throttle down bittorrent, and +</I>>>><i> that it may not be very nat and firewall friendly.. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Some suggestions for faster downloads without bittorrent. +</I>>><i> 1) use aria2c (or a similar application), which uses multiple +</I>>><i> connections, defaulting to 5, and allows multiple mirrors. +</I>>><i> By default it starts by allocating space for the file to be downloaded, +</I>>><i> which allows non-sequential downloading of the file, facilitating faster +</I>>><i> downloading from multiple sites. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> 2) use mirrors which allow multiple connexions. +</I>>><i> (Of course, with download software that takes advantage of this.) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> 3) use multiple mirrors. +</I>>><i> (Again, according to download software.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Theses 3 suggestions basically put X time the load of the mirror for +</I>><i> each client. ( or on more mirror, for that matters ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And that's quite bad from the point of view of a mirror manager. +</I> +Why would it make _any_ difference to the mirrors ? +Besides spreading the download over multiple mirrors. +We download the same amount of data from the mirrors in any case. +So we want to accelerate the download. Some mirrors might want to +throttle the download, or limit the connexions, to spread the download +over a longer period of time, and they still can. +This approach just works around such limitations for the end user. + +BTW, aria2c monitors the download speed, to choose the faster mirrors +for multiple connexions. (From the urls put on the command line.) + +><i> For example, distrib-coffee could blacklist you if you do this, if you +</I>><i> are not alone on your network connexion. And when we deployed this +</I>><i> measure to protect the server, the limit was 2 connexion per address, +</I>><i> since this was taking too much ressources on the old server ( each http +</I>><i> request taking 1 process and so memory ). Hopefully, the hardware was +</I>><i> upgraded but not everybody can afford 32g of ram and 8*2 ghz CPU. +</I> +Such restrictions are perfectly legitimate for a mirror. + +><i> [<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">root at distrib-coffee</A> ~]# grep -B 6 -A 3 +</I>><i> MaxConnPerIP /etc/httpd/conf.d/distrib-coffee.conf +</I>><i> +</I>><i> <Directory /var/ftp/pub> +</I>><i> order allow,deny +</I>><i> Allow from all +</I>><i> Options +Indexes +MultiViews +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch +</I>><i> <IfModule mod_limitipconn.c> +</I>><i> MaxConnPerIP 5 +</I>><i> ErrorDocument 503 "5 connections at the same time only allowed." +</I>><i> </IfModule> +</I>><i> </Directory> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So I think pissing off mirror maintainers is likely the wrong way of +</I>><i> solving the problem ( who was not properly explained nor looked at +</I>><i> besides "it should be faster" ). +</I> +Again, the same amount of data is downloaded collectively from the +mirrors used. +And I agree totally with mirrors using whatever download speed controls +they wish. (It is strongly advisable for mirrors with limited resources +to put such controls in place.) +Just as downloaders are free to work within the limits of such controls +to their advantage. + +>><i> 4) use ftp instead of http +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Based on ? +</I> +My experience. Most downloads are noticeably faster downloading larger +files via ftp. (Not just Mandriva downloads by any means.) +And not just my current provider, either. I use a very fast internet +access for most of my ISO downloads. (The local library.) + +><i> If this is based on using d-c, again, that's our custom QOS rules. If +</I>><i> this is because of throttling on your provider, not everybody have the +</I>><i> same provider, and so the same throttling. +</I>><i> The only difference between http and ftp is that ftp server will likely +</I>><i> scale better server side. +</I> +An explanation ... +And maybe at least some http servers don't allow out-of-order packet +requests ? + +>><i> 5) use closer mirrors. (less delay in handshaking, etc.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think tcp handshake is not much a problem, given the fact it happen +</I>><i> once per rpm, compared to the number of tcp packet for the rest of the +</I>><i> download. Use wireshark to see. +</I> +Again based on my experience. +BTW, this is mostly ISOs, since the download time of smaller files -- +like typical .rpms -- is relatively fast. +Isn't there some sort of handshaking and verification by tcp packet ? +Also propagation time in the event of errors should explain at least +part of the difference. + +I could have added download to the fastest disk available, but that +seemed obvious. (e.g. one could download to a usb disk, but that would +be painfully slow, unless one has a usb3 disk on a usb3 port.) + +>><i> In my case, using aria2c with 2 mirrors and the default 5 connexions is +</I>>><i> at least 3 times as fast as a single connexion (to my closest mirror). +</I>>><i> And a much greater improvement over other download options I've tried. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I also have configured rpmdrake to use aria2c -- it seems to give me +</I>>><i> faster and more reliable updating, but I don't have any figures. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> aria2c is a console app, but it works well enough for me that I haven't +</I>>><i> (yet) bothered to install the available GUI frontend. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That's because it worked in your case that it would work for every +</I>><i> possible case, especially without giving a proper analysis of the issue +</I>><i> on your side. +</I> +True. "Suggestions" based on my experience, in response to a request +for faster downloads. +My figures were based on the same very fast internet access point (the +same evening, in fact), so the differences have to be attributed server +side. The ratio was actually about 3.5 : 1 (according to aria2c). The +closest mirror allows only 1 connexion. Tests in the past have shown +that other mirrors (not much further) have about the same speed for a +single connexion. But they allow multiple connexions, which is the +default for aria2c. +In case you haven't used aria2c, it prints the download speed with the +estimated finishing time and current number of connexions, once every +minute. (In this comparison, the number of connexions fluctuated +between 4 and 5.) + +Agreed, I could have provided more suppositions as to why. + +Regards :) + +-- +André +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002083.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002082.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2077">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2077">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2077">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2077">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002078.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002078.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..408f50d43 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002078.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C201101121019.51980.anaselli%40linux.it%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002072.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002073.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Angelo Naselli</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C201101121019.51980.anaselli%40linux.it%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">anaselli at linux.it + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 10:19:51 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002072.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002073.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2078">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2078">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2078">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2078">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> aria2 amongst others has bittorrent support though, so metalinks with +</I>><i> ftp/http/++ mirrors together with torrents could help combine them all +</I>><i> together. :) +</I>Well choosing the best one following a given (configurable) criteria is +good idea, i believe :) +-------------- next part -------------- +A non-text attachment was scrubbed... +Name: not available +Type: application/pgp-signature +Size: 198 bytes +Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20110112/9ab33e8c/attachment.asc> +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002072.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002073.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2078">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2078">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2078">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2078">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002079.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002079.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..47f14dce1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002079.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C201101121018.30399.anaselli%40linux.it%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002094.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002081.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Angelo Naselli</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C201101121018.30399.anaselli%40linux.it%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">anaselli at linux.it + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 10:18:24 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002094.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002081.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2079">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2079">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2079">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2079">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>mercoledì 12 gennaio 2011 alle 00:12, Michael Scherer ha scritto: +><i> I had under the impression that some ISP throttle down bittorrent +</I>Yes. In Italy it's a common use. Since the most usage of it +is for... well we all know that... They think all the traffic +is for that, and they cut the band in any case despite of +what we're really download... + +Angelo +-------------- next part -------------- +A non-text attachment was scrubbed... +Name: not available +Type: application/pgp-signature +Size: 198 bytes +Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20110112/e25934b7/attachment.asc> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002094.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002081.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2079">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2079">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2079">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2079">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002080.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002080.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..754c7071d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002080.html @@ -0,0 +1,127 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2D7D12.9060402%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002076.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002083.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2D7D12.9060402%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 11:06:10 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002076.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002083.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2080">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2080">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2080">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2080">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 04:29, Michael Scherer<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 21:45 -0500, andre999 a écrit : +</I>>>><i> Some suggestions for faster downloads without bittorrent. +</I>>>><i> 1) use aria2c (or a similar application), which uses multiple +</I>>>><i> connections, defaulting to 5, and allows multiple mirrors. +</I>>>><i> By default it starts by allocating space for the file to be downloaded, +</I>>>><i> which allows non-sequential downloading of the file, facilitating faster +</I>>>><i> downloading from multiple sites. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 2) use mirrors which allow multiple connexions. +</I>>>><i> (Of course, with download software that takes advantage of this.) +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 3) use multiple mirrors. +</I>>>><i> (Again, according to download software.) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Theses 3 suggestions basically put X time the load of the mirror for +</I>>><i> each client. ( or on more mirror, for that matters ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> However, if 1) was to open 5 connections on 5 distinct servers, that +</I>><i> would make more sense, no? +</I> +Right. +Another way to look at the question : +If 1000 people are downloading from mirrors allowing a total of 2000 +connexions, if no-one uses multiple connexions, then 1000 connexions are +wasted. These unused connexions would likely be from faster mirrors. + +The advantage of an application like aria2c, is that it detects +automatically the speed of whatever the connexions are available from +the urls (mirrors) specified, and chooses the fastest connexions. +Thus downloading at an optimal speed for the user. +At the same time, it makes the best use of the resources available, +since the slowest connexions won't be used. Thus relieving slower mirrors. +(Considering direct downloads, not options like P2P.) +Of course each user will have their own set of fastest connexions, +depending on their location. A user in Australia would have different +connexions from someone in France, or here in Canada. +So in my view, the approach of aria2c is a win/win for both users and +mirrors. + +With aria2c, 3 mirrors which support a total of 5 connexions gives me +optimal speed. (The limit being the speed of my computer.) + +><i> But then I'm not sure there is so much more value than using a P2P protocol. +</I> +P2P is great if one has (essentially) unlimited bandwidth, and many +others are downloading at more or less the same time, and accessible to +the Internet when you are downloading. +And it does relieve bandwidth from the mirrors. + +But it's not as good for bandwidth limited users (which included many of +us), or those downloading at a time when not many corresponding P2P +downloaders are available. +(I knew someone who had a surprise 100$ plus surcharge due to P2P +uploading, before understanding the bandwidth usage factor.) + +An aria2c type solution doesn't require any cooperation from mirrors. +Although resource-limited mirrors should protect themselves from this +approach, to remain readily accessible. +I'm not sure what is required (from Mageia) for P2P, but it could be +worth considering. + +another 2 cents :) + +><i> Romain +</I> +-- +André +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002076.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002083.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2080">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2080">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2080">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2080">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002081.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002081.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..beb7d87e3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002081.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2D7EFE.4020809%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002079.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002086.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2D7EFE.4020809%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 11:14:22 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002079.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002086.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2081">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2081">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2081">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2081">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Angelo Naselli a écrit : +><i> mercoledì 12 gennaio 2011 alle 00:12, Michael Scherer ha scritto: +</I>>><i> I had under the impression that some ISP throttle down bittorrent +</I>><i> Yes. In Italy it's a common use. Since the most usage of it +</I>><i> is for... well we all know that... They think all the traffic +</I>><i> is for that, and they cut the band in any case despite of +</I>><i> what we're really download... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Angelo +</I> +Bell Canada does that too -- but only to give priority to other users. +(So in non-peak times there is no limitation.) +They used the reputed usage, among other arguments, to get +precedent-setting approval from regulatory authorities. +(They serve maybe half of Canadian users.) +A number of smaller internet providers have followed suit. + +-- +André +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002079.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002086.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2081">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2081">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2081">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2081">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002082.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002082.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d31752f6c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002082.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%0A%09protocol%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C20110112111449.GY10402%40virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002077.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002085.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Olivier Thauvin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%0A%09protocol%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C20110112111449.GY10402%40virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 12:14:49 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002077.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002085.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2082">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2082">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2082">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2082">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>* andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +><i> Michael Scherer a écrit : +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 20:03 +0100, Marcello Anni a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In my case, using aria2c with 2 mirrors and the default 5 connexions is +</I>><i> at least 3 times as fast as a single connexion (to my closest mirror). +</I>><i> And a much greater improvement over other download options I've tried. +</I> +This is a selfish point of view, nothing is important except the result +on your side. + +But as I can see the results of such thing on distrib-coffee I can tell: +- often the bandwidth limititation is client side (eg you, with your DSL + connection, and not the mirror, with 100mbits/s or more) +- all mirrors have limit, and when the max connection will be reached + the mirror will stop serving you (download will be very faster !) + +Of course, if in the case I don't blacklist mageia and deny download via +http/ftp to save my mirror (d-c is already under heavy load). + +So, no, don't donwload several times from a mirror. + +BTW: on distrib-coffee bandwidth is regulated by IP, not connection, +downloading 5 times will not be faster than 1. + +-- + +Olivier Thauvin +CNRS - LATMOS +♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖ +-------------- next part -------------- +A non-text attachment was scrubbed... +Name: not available +Type: application/pgp-signature +Size: 197 bytes +Desc: not available +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20110112/cabe6745/attachment.asc> +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002077.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002085.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2082">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2082">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2082">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2082">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002083.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002083.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9c4e60114 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002083.html @@ -0,0 +1,125 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%0A%09protocol%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C20110112115232.GZ10402%40virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002080.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002077.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Olivier Thauvin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%0A%09protocol%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C20110112115232.GZ10402%40virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 12:52:32 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002080.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002077.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2083">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2083">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2083">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2083">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>* andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +><i> Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 04:29, Michael Scherer<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> However, if 1) was to open 5 connections on 5 distinct servers, that +</I>>><i> would make more sense, no? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Right. +</I>><i> Another way to look at the question : +</I>><i> If 1000 people are downloading from mirrors allowing a total of 2000 +</I>><i> connexions, if no-one uses multiple connexions, then 1000 connexions are +</I>><i> wasted. These unused connexions would likely be from faster mirrors. +</I> +The upload given by a serveur is split in term of: +- connection available +- bandwidth available. + +If the mirrors is connected to Gb (which is more likelly the size of +bandwidth for the whole university...), and you split this Gb/s onto +2000 connection you obtain 500kb/s. + +However, I know only few server in the world really able to read Gb/s +from their disk. The top rate I obtain on dc is 400mbis/s (the memory +cache help a lot to obtain more). + +The number of connection is set high because some people download at +only 50kb/s and other 2Mbit/s, so the spare bandwidth from the 50kb/s +can be given to others. Nothing more. + +According the graph on distrib-coffee: +<A HREF="http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/munin/distrib-coffee/distrib-coffee/index.html">http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/munin/distrib-coffee/distrib-coffee/index.html</A> +there is an average of 100 http download at a time, if each connection +become 5 (500), you'll reach the limit (200 on this server). +What will be the gain on your side ? + +I talked here only about http, but apply the same to ftp in the same +internet connection, so it mean I have 100mbits/s to share between 400 +connections. + +As Mickael explain, I voluntary limit the count of connection per IP, +before I did this, the server was overload 12 hour a day, which mean +stop serving ! + +><i> With aria2c, 3 mirrors which support a total of 5 connexions gives me +</I>><i> optimal speed. (The limit being the speed of my computer.) +</I> +Can we know the speed of your connection ? + +Maybe your connection is good enough to provide a mirror for Mageia ? +And then you'll be able to test what you're suggesting. + +What is the result with 5 mirrors and 1 connection per mirror ? + +Obviously, any mirror in France (I am in France) is able to fulfill +my personnal connection... (10mbits/s). + +-- + +Olivier Thauvin +CNRS - LATMOS +♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖ +-------------- next part -------------- +A non-text attachment was scrubbed... +Name: not available +Type: application/pgp-signature +Size: 197 bytes +Desc: not available +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20110112/69c6e254/attachment.asc> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002080.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002077.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2083">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2083">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2083">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2083">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002084.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002084.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5abea574a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002084.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C1294835503.32187.351.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002075.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002076.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C1294835503.32187.351.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 13:31:43 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002075.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002076.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2084">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2084">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2084">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2084">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le mercredi 12 janvier 2011 à 08:05 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : +><i> On 12 January 2011 04:29, Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> > For example, distrib-coffee could blacklist you if you do this, if you +</I>><i> > are not alone on your network connexion. And when we deployed this +</I>><i> > measure to protect the server, the limit was 2 connexion per address, +</I>><i> > since this was taking too much ressources on the old server ( each http +</I>><i> > request taking 1 process and so memory ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> switching to nginx would help that +</I> +According to the current mirror maintainer, the problem is not only on +http server memory usage ( I do use nginx myself on my own servers and +indeed, that would alleviate this part of the issue ). + +It is also that doing random access to file result in random seek on the +raid array, and on a regular scsi disk ( not on ssd but ssd is not cheap +for the moment ), this is more disrupting since the head of the disk is +constantly moving to seek the block to fetch. + +Fetching continuous block from the disk is faster, since there is no +delay. Fetching from random part of the disk is more problematic. + +And the same goes when done on multiple servers. It is lighter on the +overall ressources to download on one mirror and stick to it than open 5 +connexions and do 5 random seeks on 5 different disk. + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002075.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002076.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2084">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2084">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2084">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2084">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002085.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002085.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0fe9711cd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002085.html @@ -0,0 +1,142 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%09protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2DB66C.2020801%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002082.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002087.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%09protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2DB66C.2020801%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 15:10:52 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002082.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002087.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2085">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2085">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2085">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2085">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Olivier Thauvin a écrit : +><i> * andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +</I>>><i> Michael Scherer a écrit : +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Le mardi 11 janvier 2011 à 20:03 +0100, Marcello Anni a écrit : +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> In my case, using aria2c with 2 mirrors and the default 5 connexions is +</I>>><i> at least 3 times as fast as a single connexion (to my closest mirror). +</I>>><i> And a much greater improvement over other download options I've tried. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is a selfish point of view, nothing is important except the result +</I>><i> on your side. +</I> +Sorry, but this can't be serious. +If a user is to download say a 4,7G DVD iso, it is 4,7G if the user uses +one or 5 connexions, from one or 5 mirrors. +And if the 5 connexions go to 5 different mirrors, that is only 20% per +mirror. +Globally, if the same files are downloaded, the same amount of data is +downloaded. +What we are talking about here, from the user side, is downloading +faster, if the capacity is _available_ on the network of mirrors. +Nothing more, nothing less. + +There are many mirrors which provide multiple connexions, with a very +large bandwidth. If users don't use the available connexions on these +servers, other mirrors will be more heavily impacted. +So, as I said in another post on this thread, it is win-win for both +users and mirrors. + +><i> But as I can see the results of such thing on distrib-coffee I can tell: +</I>><i> - often the bandwidth limititation is client side (eg you, with your DSL +</I>><i> connection, and not the mirror, with 100mbits/s or more) +</I>><i> - all mirrors have limit, and when the max connection will be reached +</I>><i> the mirror will stop serving you (download will be very faster !) +</I> +That is the advantage of applications like aria2c. They search +available connexions from the urls (mirrors) given, and choose which +give the fastest downloads. The number of connexions vary according to +the conditions. With the default of 5 connexions, aria2c tries to +maintain 5 connexions, but in practice fluctuates (dynamically) between +3 and 5, according to conditions. (From my experience.) + +Think of it another way. +Scenerio 1) Suppose at this moment the mirror network has 20% free +capacity. We download without multiple connections or multiple mirrors, +without using this excess capacity. In one hour we are still +downloading, at a time when there is no free capacity. + +Scenerio 2) We download using multiple connexions and multiple mirrors, +accelerating the downloads with the otherwise unused 20% free capacity. + In one hour, most of our downloads are finished, thus leaving free +capacity. + +Just who is served by scenerio 1 ? +The users that don't have access, or the mirrors that are overloaded ? + +><i> Of course, if in the case I don't blacklist mageia and deny download via +</I>><i> http/ftp to save my mirror (d-c is already under heavy load). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So, no, don't donwload several times from a mirror. +</I> +The solution ? If a mirror can't handle multiple connexions, restrict +it in some way. Many mirrors do. Either all the time, or from time to +time. Or throttle the transfer speed. +Just do whatever works best for the mirror in question. +However let users use the capacity available. Because it may not be +available in one hour, or even 5 minutes. + +><i> BTW: on distrib-coffee bandwidth is regulated by IP, not connection, +</I>><i> downloading 5 times will not be faster than 1. +</I> +Essentially the same thing. Great, if it works for the mirror. + +aria2c senses the the bandwidth dynamically, and reacts accordingly. +I'm sure that many other applications do the same thing. +Don't forget that much of the increase in download speed comes from +using multiple mirrors. (Clearly indicated in the aria2c documentation, +and verified in my usage.) + +Why not think globally ? + +another 2 cents :) + +-- +André +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002082.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002087.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2085">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2085">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2085">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2085">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002086.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002086.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e7dbe431d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002086.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%2012/01/2011%20meeting&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DvsW3JJy6KR4Z74Fpa4W6vq%2BDNW0q8Mw2zJu8w%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002081.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002089.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting</H1> + <B>Anne nicolas</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%2012/01/2011%20meeting&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DvsW3JJy6KR4Z74Fpa4W6vq%2BDNW0q8Mw2zJu8w%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting">ennael1 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 16:51:11 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002081.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002089.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2086">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2086">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2086">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2086">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Our next weekly meeting will happen tonight, 20h UTC on #mageia-dev + +Topics +====== + +- mentoring: review on current process +- build system status: summary of current status +- relation with mdv: asked by several people - speak about what to do +on that topic +- mageia policies: review +- organize maintainership for packages +- short notice about FOSDEM + +Cheers + +-- +Anne +<A HREF="http://www.mageia.org">http://www.mageia.org</A> +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002081.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002089.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2086">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2086">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2086">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2086">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002087.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002087.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..584f94575 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002087.html @@ -0,0 +1,178 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%0A%09protocol%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C20110112160715.GG10402%40virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002085.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002093.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Olivier Thauvin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%0A%09protocol%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C20110112160715.GG10402%40virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 17:07:15 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002085.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002093.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2087">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2087">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2087">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2087">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>* andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +><i> Olivier Thauvin a écrit : +</I>>><i> * andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +</I>>>><i> Michael Scherer a écrit : +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>><i> This is a selfish point of view, nothing is important except the result +</I>>><i> on your side. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Sorry, but this can't be serious. +</I>><i> If a user is to download say a 4,7G DVD iso, it is 4,7G if the user uses +</I>><i> one or 5 connexions, from one or 5 mirrors. +</I>><i> And if the 5 connexions go to 5 different mirrors, that is only 20% per +</I>><i> mirror. +</I>><i> Globally, if the same files are downloaded, the same amount of data is +</I>><i> downloaded. +</I>><i> What we are talking about here, from the user side, is downloading +</I>><i> faster, if the capacity is _available_ on the network of mirrors. +</I> +Exactly, it is seriously a selfish point of view as: +- you're talking about users side, me both +- IF the capacity, obviously no one really know the capacity of mirrors + except admin of them (and I am one of them). + +Moreover you're mixing "downloading on several server" and "downloading +several time on one or more servers". + +><i> There are many mirrors which provide multiple connexions, with a very +</I>><i> large bandwidth. If users don't use the available connexions on these +</I>><i> servers, other mirrors will be more heavily impacted. +</I>><i> So, as I said in another post on this thread, it is win-win for both +</I>><i> users and mirrors. +</I> +All mirrors provides multiple connection, otherwise they would serve +only one client a time... + +And no, it is not win-win, I am trying to explain, munin statistics in +hand, only the users think to win something. And you're ignoring my +comment as mirror admin. + +><i> Think of it another way. +</I>><i> Scenerio 1) Suppose at this moment the mirror network has 20% free +</I>><i> capacity. We download without multiple connections or multiple mirrors, +</I>><i> without using this excess capacity. In one hour we are still +</I>><i> downloading, at a time when there is no free capacity. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Scenerio 2) We download using multiple connexions and multiple mirrors, +</I>><i> accelerating the downloads with the otherwise unused 20% free capacity. +</I>><i> In one hour, most of our downloads are finished, thus leaving free +</I>><i> capacity. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Just who is served by scenerio 1 ? +</I> +Mirrors, they are not serving only you and your 5 connections, they +already serving 100 users other than just you ! + +I cannot see how the mirror will give more bandwidth with 1 or 5 +connections. Except in the case each connection take same amount of +bandwidth, then you're 5 part while other take one. And this is not a +fair use of ressource. + +><i> The users that don't have access, or the mirrors that are overloaded ? +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Of course, if in the case I don't blacklist mageia and deny download via +</I>>><i> http/ftp to save my mirror (d-c is already under heavy load). +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> So, no, don't donwload several times from a mirror. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The solution ? If a mirror can't handle multiple connexions, restrict +</I>><i> it in some way. Many mirrors do. Either all the time, or from time to +</I>><i> time. Or throttle the transfer speed. +</I>><i> Just do whatever works best for the mirror in question. +</I>><i> However let users use the capacity available. Because it may not be +</I>><i> available in one hour, or even 5 minutes. +</I> +The problem is (maybe I am not clear) your 5 connections will get queue +letting other people having to wait more to download their file, or +getting "too many connections" error. + +Indeed, this maybe does not matter for you, except when you'll complain +because the distribution cannot be download. + +><i> +</I>><i> Why not think globally ? +</I> +I do, especially, I prefectly when http stop to reply, it stop to reply +globally, for Mageia but also for Fedora / Ubuntu / Scientific Linux / +Arklinux / Gentoo / ... and all other project hosted on mirrors. + +This is really a more global issue. + +I also think my mirror have first to serve my work, and time to time +my colleague complain about slowdown cause by external downloader (eg +YOU). + + +Here my POV: +1) I am mirror admin and get tired of abuse +2) I am mirror manager for the distro + +a) According the fact doing this create an huge load on some mirrors, +b) according we'll have to search mirror around the world and the distrib + size is already a problem +c) according doing this can discourage people offering space and bandwidth + for us + +I am aginst such things. + +I cannot deny you to do this, but don't complain if no mirror agree to +serve you. + +-- + +Olivier Thauvin +CNRS - LATMOS +♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖ +-------------- next part -------------- +A non-text attachment was scrubbed... +Name: not available +Type: application/pgp-signature +Size: 197 bytes +Desc: not available +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20110112/e41f6344/attachment.asc> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002085.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002093.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2087">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2087">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2087">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2087">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002088.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002088.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..171eb3829 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002088.html @@ -0,0 +1,150 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2DD5A9.3040301%40roadrunner.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002091.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002090.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published</H1> + <B>Frank Griffin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2DD5A9.3040301%40roadrunner.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published">ftg at roadrunner.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 17:24:09 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002091.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002090.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2088">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2088">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2088">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2088">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Farfouille wrote: +><i> Hi +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I have published a first draft of Java application package policy. <A HREF="http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=java_applications_policy">http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=java_applications_policy</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Corrections and comments are welcome. +</I>><i> +</I> +The bit about pre-packaged JARs may cause trouble. In theory, it's +great, but many applications depend upon certain versions of their +utility JARs, and can't all run with the latest versions. Any such app +would have a Requires for its specific version, which would prevent the +utility JAR from being updated with a newer version for other apps. +This is why EJB allows EJB apps to include their own specific versions +of utility JARs, which are visible to them but not to other apps or the +container itself, and also why Maven uses versioned artifacts. + +An extreme example of such an app is NetBeans, which includes its own +versions of Ant and Maven. + +Also, for such apps, upstream developers may refuse to investigate +issues unless the shipped versions of supplemental JARs are being used. + +><i> As I have never used maven, a deep reread is required +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I> +Maven POMs allow the packager to specify required other objects +("artifacts") not only for building the package but for execution as +well. There are central Maven repositories which contain versioned +artifacts for commonly-used projects, e.g. JUnit, and many companies +have site-wide repositories of their own. Finally, every user of Maven +has a personal repository located in $HOME/.m2, which is why the policy +has code for creating this directory. + +Repositories are seached for needed artifacts from the most local (the +user's personal repository) to the most remote (the central Maven +repositories) as directed by a settings.xml file in the user's .m2 +directory or <repositories> tags in the individual pom.xml files. The +general intent is to obtain artifacts from the "closest" repository. +Company repositories are not just the central location for +company-specific artifacts, but also a local cache for central Maven +repository artifacts. + +><i>From the policy, it looks like the personal repository for the ID under +</I>which RPM builds the package is wiped clean for every package, and thus +every needed artifact will be downloaded from the remote repositories +for every build. If that's the case, it's an awful waste of bandwidth, +since many of these artifacts are used for every Maven project. + +We might want to consider having a central repository for each system, +which would be one level above the individual users' personal +repositories, and would be used before more remote repositories. There +is no harm to allowing artifacts to accumulate there, since all +artifacts are versioned. Cleanup might be possible through filetriggers +if a tool identified all dependent artifacts for each installed Maven +package, and deleted ones no longer used by anything installed. If +there were such a repository, say under /var, then it should be used for +builds rather than an individual repository tied to the RPM userid. + +There's also the issue of allowing company or site repositories to be +used if they exist. For packages installed during system installation, +there would be no way for a sysadmin to specify local repositories +unless the install were modified to allow it, but few if any Java +packages (much less Maven ones) are installed at that time. For later +package installs, perhaps a dynamic settings.xml could be created for +the build using XML fragments in something like an +/etc/maven/repositories.d with the same sort of numeric prefix +preference that chkconfig uses to establish precedence. + +Finally, there's the issue of using repository artifacts on the system +in the execution-time CLASSPATHs for the Maven applications. Maven has +a plugin which will build a single huge JAR containing an application's +classes as well as classes from every JAR artifact on which it depends, +and many docs recommend this as the way to distribute an application, +but it consumes quite a bit of space as every app is carrying its own +copy of every supplemental utility class it needs when it could probably +find the identical classes in the versioned artifacts in a system +repository. This ties in to the build-classpath and +build-jar-repository capabilities for non-Maven apps. + +By the way, the policy should probably contain full usage instructions +for build-classpath and build-jar-repository as well as a description of +the uses to which they are put. + +Good Work ! + + + +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002091.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002090.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2088">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2088">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2088">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2088">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002089.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002089.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..dff1ffe75 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002089.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%2012/01/2011%20meeting&In-Reply-To=%3C1294849754.32187.367.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002086.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002091.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%2012/01/2011%20meeting&In-Reply-To=%3C1294849754.32187.367.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 17:29:14 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002086.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002091.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2089">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2089">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2089">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2089">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le mercredi 12 janvier 2011 à 16:51 +0100, Anne nicolas a écrit : +><i> Our next weekly meeting will happen tonight, 20h UTC on #mageia-dev +</I> +I have another exceptional appointment tonight, sorry for not being +there. +( as said you should not have voted for me ). +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002086.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002091.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2089">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2089">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2089">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2089">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002090.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002090.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b1908d4d4 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002090.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C1294849955.32187.371.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002088.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002092.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C1294849955.32187.371.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 17:32:35 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002088.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002092.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2090">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2090">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2090">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2090">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le mercredi 12 janvier 2011 à 11:24 -0500, Frank Griffin a écrit : +><i> Farfouille wrote: +</I>><i> > Hi +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I have published a first draft of Java application package policy. <A HREF="http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=java_applications_policy">http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=java_applications_policy</A> +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Corrections and comments are welcome. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The bit about pre-packaged JARs may cause trouble. In theory, it's +</I>><i> great, but many applications depend upon certain versions of their +</I>><i> utility JARs, and can't all run with the latest versions. Any such app +</I>><i> would have a Requires for its specific version, which would prevent the +</I>><i> utility JAR from being updated with a newer version for other apps. +</I>><i> This is why EJB allows EJB apps to include their own specific versions +</I>><i> of utility JARs, which are visible to them but not to other apps or the +</I>><i> container itself, and also why Maven uses versioned artifacts. +</I> +That's the same issue for everything. + +Shipping binary jar given by upstream tarball cause trouble because you +1) cannot patch them in case of bug +2) cannot see how and what was compiled + +That's not very free software friendly, and I think we should refuse +that. + + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002088.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002092.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2090">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2090">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2090">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2090">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002091.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002091.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f4ee16881 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002091.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%2012/01/2011%20meeting&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2DDA40.3080801%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002089.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002088.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting</H1> + <B>Cazzaniga Sandro</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%2012/01/2011%20meeting&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2DDA40.3080801%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting">cazzaniga.sandro at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 17:43:44 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002089.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002088.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2091">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2091">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2091">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2091">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 12/01/2011 17:29, Michael Scherer a écrit : +><i> Le mercredi 12 janvier 2011 à 16:51 +0100, Anne nicolas a écrit : +</I>>><i> Our next weekly meeting will happen tonight, 20h UTC on #mageia-dev +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I have another exceptional appointment tonight, sorry for not being +</I>><i> there. +</I>><i> ( as said you should not have voted for me ). +</I>I'll be here :) + +-- +Sandro Cazzaniga +IRC: Kharec (irc.freenode.net) +Twitter: @Kharec +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002089.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002088.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2091">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2091">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2091">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2091">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002092.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002092.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e6d645675 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002092.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2DDAA3.6060302%40roadrunner.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002090.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002095.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published</H1> + <B>Frank Griffin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2DDAA3.6060302%40roadrunner.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published">ftg at roadrunner.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 17:45:23 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002090.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002095.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2092">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2092">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2092">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2092">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael Scherer wrote: +><i> Le mercredi 12 janvier 2011 à 11:24 -0500, Frank Griffin a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> The bit about pre-packaged JARs may cause trouble. +</I>><i> That's the same issue for everything. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Shipping binary jar given by upstream tarball cause trouble because you +</I>><i> 1) cannot patch them in case of bug +</I>><i> 2) cannot see how and what was compiled +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That's not very free software friendly, and I think we should refuse +</I>><i> that. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>Granted, but unless every free software project migrates to Maven, you'd +be refusing a lot of popular apps. + +In theory, the packager of such an application could create +supplementary packages for the specific versions of included JARs and +build them first from source. But for something like NetBeans or +Eclipse, that's going to be a lot of work.... + +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002090.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002095.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2092">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2092">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2092">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2092">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002093.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002093.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..22bf16b14 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002093.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikRToOkPMq3L%2BQEqAup%3D%2BrSsuh97y_nm7o5T1O6%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002087.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002094.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%20to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikRToOkPMq3L%2BQEqAup%3D%2BrSsuh97y_nm7o5T1O6%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 18:10:08 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002087.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002094.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2093">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2093">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2093">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2093">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Thanks Olivier, for saying this much better than I could + +wobo, yet another mirror maintainer +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002087.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002094.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2093">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2093">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2093">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2093">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002094.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002094.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..58f91af23 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002094.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C201101122014.55074.marcello.anni%40alice.it%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002093.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002079.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download</H1> + <B>Marcello Anni</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%20for%20Mageia%3A%20implement%20bitorrent%20protocol%0A%09to%20allow%20updates%20download&In-Reply-To=%3C201101122014.55074.marcello.anni%40alice.it%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download">marcello.anni at alice.it + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 20:14:54 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002093.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002079.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2094">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2094">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2094">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2094">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> Thanks Olivier, for saying this much better than I could +</I>><i> +</I>><i> wobo, yet another mirror maintainer +</I>><i> +</I>yes wobo, but except Per Øyvind no one has really answered to my question... +i think if that if we want Mageia to become the most popular distro over the +world -yep!- we should find a way to augment the overall bandwith available for +updates download, and what's better than bittorrent protocol to use user +available bandwith to do this? i would like to know: + +- if it is possible from a techincal pov +- if it is convenient and useful (overall in a long-term vision) +- if we could plan it for the coming releases (and who could take in charge +this) + + +cheers, +Marcello +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002093.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002079.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2094">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2094">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2094">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2094">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002095.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002095.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..04384ddee --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002095.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2E05C2.9030400%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002092.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002098.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published</H1> + <B>Farfouille</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2E05C2.9030400%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published">farfouille64 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 20:49:22 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002092.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002098.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2095">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2095">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2095">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2095">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 12/01/2011 17:45, Frank Griffin a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>>><i> Le mercredi 12 janvier 2011 à 11:24 -0500, Frank Griffin a écrit : +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> The bit about pre-packaged JARs may cause trouble. +</I>>><i> That's the same issue for everything. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Shipping binary jar given by upstream tarball cause trouble because you +</I>>><i> 1) cannot patch them in case of bug +</I>>><i> 2) cannot see how and what was compiled +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> That's not very free software friendly, and I think we should refuse +</I>>><i> that. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Granted, but unless every free software project migrates to Maven, you'd +</I>><i> be refusing a lot of popular apps. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In theory, the packager of such an application could create +</I>><i> supplementary packages for the specific versions of included JARs and +</I>><i> build them first from source. But for something like NetBeans or +</I>><i> Eclipse, that's going to be a lot of work.... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>I propose to keep the restriction, but to allow some exception, mainly blockbuster like +Eclipse and Netbeans in order to build an appealing distro. + +Do you know other softwares that are worth to be exception ? +-- +Farfouille +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002092.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002098.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2095">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2095">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2095">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2095">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002096.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002096.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..19aada261 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002096.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C201101122241.42730.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002098.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002097.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published</H1> + <B>Renaud MICHEL</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C201101122241.42730.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published">r.h.michel+mageia at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 22:41:42 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002098.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002097.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2096">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2096">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2096">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2096">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On mercredi 12 janvier 2011 at 17:45, Frank Griffin wrote : +><i> In theory, the packager of such an application could create +</I>><i> supplementary packages for the specific versions of included JARs and +</I>><i> build them first from source. But for something like NetBeans or +</I>><i> Eclipse, that's going to be a lot of work.... +</I> +I don't know for netbeans (maybe it is the same as eclipse), but eclipse +needs anyway all of its dependencies inside his own plugins directory, so it +would anyway be hard to use other system installed jars. +But the source of the required version could probably be included in the +src.rpm of the requiring plugins and built/installed before them (but I +actually have no idea how eclipse plugins are built from source). + +The problem is, many eclipse plugins (or plugins collections actually) have +dependencies on the same libs (for example xalan and xerces) which they all +provide in their zip archive. We cannot have them in each package that need +them as it would create file conflicts between those packages. +So we would need to create separate packages for those "external +dependencies plugins". They could be built from their own source (from the +official project) and then the real plugins would depend on them. +That would probably require a special naming convention for dependencies +between plugins (as the package doesn't provide "xalan" but "xalan as an +eclipse plugin") + +Or maybe, if the jar in the external dependency plugin is actually the same +(or compatible) version as the on from the normal package maybe we could +make a plugin package only containing the eclipse related files +(plugin.properties) and creating a symlink to the system wide jar. But that +mean that eclipse plugins, which are now frequently provided as single jar +files, would need to be packaged as files and directories like in older +eclipse releases. + +What do you think? + +-- +Renaud Michel +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002098.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002097.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2096">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2096">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2096">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2096">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002097.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002097.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0d5ba0234 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002097.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C201101122254.12348.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002096.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002099.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published</H1> + <B>Renaud MICHEL</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C201101122254.12348.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published">r.h.michel+mageia at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 22:54:12 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002096.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002099.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2097">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2097">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2097">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2097">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On mercredi 12 janvier 2011 at 22:41, Renaud MICHEL wrote : +><i> Or maybe, if the jar in the external dependency plugin is actually the +</I>><i> same (or compatible) version as the on from the normal package maybe we +</I>><i> could make a plugin package only containing the eclipse related files +</I>><i> (plugin.properties) and creating a symlink to the system wide jar. But +</I>><i> that mean that eclipse plugins, which are now frequently provided as +</I>><i> single jar files, would need to be packaged as files and directories +</I>><i> like in older eclipse releases. +</I> +Looking at fedora's eclipse plugins packages, it seems they are symlinking +directly the jars from their system bundle in the eclipse plugins directory, +with full package and version as symlink name. +I thought some eclipse specific files (like plugin.properties) were required +inside the jar, but it seems not. + +-- +Renaud Michel +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002096.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002099.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2097">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2097">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2097">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2097">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002098.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002098.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7a32661aa --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002098.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2E2D04.8000704%40roadrunner.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002095.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002096.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published</H1> + <B>Frank Griffin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2E2D04.8000704%40roadrunner.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published">ftg at roadrunner.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 23:36:52 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002095.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002096.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2098">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2098">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2098">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2098">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Farfouille wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> I propose to keep the restriction, but to allow some exception, mainly blockbuster like +</I>><i> Eclipse and Netbeans in order to build an appealing distro. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Do you know other softwares that are worth to be exception ? +</I>><i> +</I>The only one that comes to mind is JBoss, but I'm sure there will be +others. Any servlet or EJB container is going to be prone to this. +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002095.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002096.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2098">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2098">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2098">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2098">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002099.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002099.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7c2401d64 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/002099.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2E3138.7020207%40roadrunner.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002097.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published</H1> + <B>Frank Griffin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Java-Policy%20first%20draft%20published&In-Reply-To=%3C4D2E3138.7020207%40roadrunner.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published">ftg at roadrunner.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 12 23:54:48 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002097.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2099">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2099">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2099">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2099">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Renaud MICHEL wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> Or maybe, if the jar in the external dependency plugin is actually the same +</I>><i> (or compatible) version as the on from the normal package maybe we could +</I>><i> make a plugin package only containing the eclipse related files +</I>><i> (plugin.properties) and creating a symlink to the system wide jar. But that +</I>><i> mean that eclipse plugins, which are now frequently provided as single jar +</I>><i> files, would need to be packaged as files and directories like in older +</I>><i> eclipse releases. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What do you think? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>I think we want to consider carefully before we try to replace complex +existing plugin installation procedures in various products. This issue +is also being discussed relative to Firefox in another thread. + +Users of things like NetBeans and Eclipse are used to the mechanisms +provided by those tools for managing plugin installation, and are not +going to take kindly to having to use rpmdrake instead. And in some +cases, e.g. Maven, you don't have a choice - if Maven needs it and it +isn't there, it will get it from repositories whether or not you have +packaged a plugin as an RPM. + +At some point, you just give up and accept the fact that you can't +reform the entire world. As more and more projects migrate to Maven, +the problem (sort of) goes away. All of our suggestions here are +basically trying to recreate what Maven does without requiring projects +to use it. +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002097.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2099">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2099">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2099">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2099">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b2cc9a14f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,192 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 12 January 2011 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>12 January 2011 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 00:12:44 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:48 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 29<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002094.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2094"> </A> +<I>Marcello Anni +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002093.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2093"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002095.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2095"> </A> +<I>Farfouille +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002088.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2088"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002092.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2092"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002098.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2098"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002099.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2099"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002072.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2072"> </A> +<I>Per Øyvind Karlsen +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002096.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2096"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002097.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2097"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002079.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2079"> </A> +<I>Angelo Naselli +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002078.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2078"> </A> +<I>Angelo Naselli +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002091.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2091"> </A> +<I>Cazzaniga Sandro +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002071.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2071"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002074.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2074"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002084.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2084"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002089.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2089"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002090.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2090"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002082.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2082"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002083.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2083"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002087.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2087"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002075.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2075"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002073.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2073"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002077.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2077"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002080.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2080"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002081.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2081"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002085.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2085"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002076.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2076"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002086.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2086"> </A> +<I>Anne nicolas +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:48 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:55 CET 2011</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b995182ce --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,192 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 12 January 2011 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>12 January 2011 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 00:12:44 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:48 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 29<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002071.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2071"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002072.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2072"> </A> +<I>Per Øyvind Karlsen +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002073.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2073"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002074.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2074"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002075.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2075"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002076.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2076"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002077.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2077"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002079.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2079"> </A> +<I>Angelo Naselli +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002078.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2078"> </A> +<I>Angelo Naselli +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002080.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2080"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002081.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2081"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002082.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2082"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002083.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2083"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002084.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2084"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002085.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2085"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002086.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2086"> </A> +<I>Anne nicolas +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002087.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2087"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002088.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2088"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002089.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2089"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002090.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2090"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002091.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2091"> </A> +<I>Cazzaniga Sandro +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002092.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2092"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002093.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2093"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002094.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2094"> </A> +<I>Marcello Anni +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002095.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2095"> </A> +<I>Farfouille +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002096.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2096"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002097.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2097"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002098.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2098"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002099.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2099"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:48 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:55 CET 2011</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d4eeca043 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,192 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 12 January 2011 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>12 January 2011 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 00:12:44 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:48 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 29<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002086.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2086"> </A> +<I>Anne nicolas +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002089.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2089"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002091.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2091"> </A> +<I>Cazzaniga Sandro +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002088.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2088"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002090.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2090"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002092.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2092"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002095.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2095"> </A> +<I>Farfouille +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002096.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2096"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002097.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2097"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002098.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2098"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002099.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2099"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002082.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2082"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002083.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2083"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002087.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2087"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002085.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2085"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002079.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2079"> </A> +<I>Angelo Naselli +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002078.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2078"> </A> +<I>Angelo Naselli +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002094.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2094"> </A> +<I>Marcello Anni +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002071.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2071"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002072.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2072"> </A> +<I>Per Øyvind Karlsen +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002073.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2073"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002074.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2074"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002075.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2075"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002076.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2076"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002077.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2077"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002080.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2080"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002081.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2081"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002084.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2084"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002093.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2093"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:48 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:55 CET 2011</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5079b2022 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110112/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,243 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 12 January 2011 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>12 January 2011 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 00:12:44 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:48 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 29<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01294787564- --> +<LI><A HREF="002071.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2071"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01294787564-01294789535- --> +<LI><A HREF="002072.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2072"> </A> +<I>Per Øyvind Karlsen +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01294787564-01294789535-01294823991- --> +<LI><A HREF="002078.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2078"> </A> +<I>Angelo Naselli +</I> + +</UL> +<!--1 01294787564-01294800342- --> +<LI><A HREF="002073.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2073"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01294787564-01294800342-01294802983- --> +<LI><A HREF="002074.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2074"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01294787564-01294800342-01294802983-01294815930- --> +<LI><A HREF="002075.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2075"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + +<!--3 01294787564-01294800342-01294802983-01294815930-01294835503- --> +<LI><A HREF="002084.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2084"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<!--3 01294787564-01294800342-01294802983-01294821793- --> +<LI><A HREF="002076.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2076"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<!--3 01294787564-01294800342-01294802983-01294821793-01294826770- --> +<LI><A HREF="002080.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2080"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<!--3 01294787564-01294800342-01294802983-01294821793-01294826770-01294833152- --> +<LI><A HREF="002083.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2083"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<!--3 01294787564-01294800342-01294802983-01294822644- --> +<LI><A HREF="002077.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2077"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +</UL> +<!--2 01294787564-01294800342-01294830889- --> +<LI><A HREF="002082.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2082"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01294787564-01294800342-01294830889-01294841452- --> +<LI><A HREF="002085.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2085"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<!--3 01294787564-01294800342-01294830889-01294841452-01294848435- --> +<LI><A HREF="002087.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2087"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<!--3 01294787564-01294800342-01294830889-01294841452-01294848435-01294852208- --> +<LI><A HREF="002093.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2093"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<!--3 01294787564-01294800342-01294830889-01294841452-01294848435-01294852208-01294859694- --> +<LI><A HREF="002094.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2094"> </A> +<I>Marcello Anni +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 01294787564-01294823904- --> +<LI><A HREF="002079.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2079"> </A> +<I>Angelo Naselli +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01294787564-01294823904-01294827262- --> +<LI><A HREF="002081.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal for Mageia: implement bitorrent protocol to allow updates download +</A><A NAME="2081"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01294847471- --> +<LI><A HREF="002086.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2086"> </A> +<I>Anne nicolas +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01294847471-01294849754- --> +<LI><A HREF="002089.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2089"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01294847471-01294849754-01294850624- --> +<LI><A HREF="002091.html">[Mageia-dev] 12/01/2011 meeting +</A><A NAME="2091"> </A> +<I>Cazzaniga Sandro +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01294849449- --> +<LI><A HREF="002088.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2088"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01294849449-01294849955- --> +<LI><A HREF="002090.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2090"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01294849449-01294849955-01294850723- --> +<LI><A HREF="002092.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2092"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01294849449-01294849955-01294850723-01294861762- --> +<LI><A HREF="002095.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2095"> </A> +<I>Farfouille +</I> + +<!--3 01294849449-01294849955-01294850723-01294861762-01294871812- --> +<LI><A HREF="002098.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2098"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<!--3 01294849449-01294849955-01294850723-01294868502- --> +<LI><A HREF="002096.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2096"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<!--3 01294849449-01294849955-01294850723-01294868502-01294869252- --> +<LI><A HREF="002097.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2097"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<!--3 01294849449-01294849955-01294850723-01294868502-01294872888- --> +<LI><A HREF="002099.html">[Mageia-dev] Java-Policy first draft published +</A><A NAME="2099"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:48 CET 2011</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Jan 12 23:54:55 CET 2011</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |