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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
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| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213 | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
| download | archives-master.tar archives-master.tar.gz archives-master.tar.bz2 archives-master.tar.xz archives-master.zip | |
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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001716.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001716.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..82852a7f7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001716.html @@ -0,0 +1,299 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D05BCE2.90805%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001717.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D05BCE2.90805%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Dec 13 07:27:46 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001717.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1716">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1716">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1716">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1716">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael scherer a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 12:36:05AM -0500, andre999 wrote: +</I>>><i> Michael scherer a écrit : +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 08:16:33AM -0500, andre999 wrote: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>>><i> Not to mention that a ratio of 2 mirrors in the USA out of a total +</I>>>>>><i> of 25 seems rather odd, for something that admins do not care. +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> 2 of 25 PLF mirrors in the U.S. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Technically, 1, since the other is down ( and should be removed from +</I>>>><i> the list ). +</I>>>><i> So a ratio of 4%. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Unless you are going to analyse what is down for the other distros, +</I>>><i> you should say 2 ± 1, that is 4 to 12% +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Ok, when I say down, I should say "the domain no longer exist". It is just +</I>><i> not registered. Not "down and it will be up" later, but "down someone didn't +</I>><i> bother to pay the domain". Obviously, I should not assume that people +</I>><i> check facts before telling me my numbers are wrong. +</I> +Right, we should have both said "discontinued". Did you understand my +point about verifying others distro's mirrors ? + +My point about comparing the numbers still stands. Unless you've seen +anyone with 2,5 mirrors, for example. And my comparisons of numbers +don't take into account other factors, which would obviously have at +least some effect. + +What I'm saying, essentially, is that your numbers in no way support +your hypothesis that carrying patented software significantly reduces +the availability of mirrors. In some cases, your numbers even suggest +the contrary. (If you don't consider other factors.) + +><i> And since other distributions have various systems to detect this ( mandriva have one, +</I>><i> fedora have one, opensuse too ), there is no need to touch to the number. +</I>><i> PLF do not have any checking tasks, so the mirror was not seen as wrong. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> ... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And I would have removed the incorrect one, if I didn't consider this as +</I>><i> a abuse of my root privilege on zarb.org. +</I> +BTW, you could have added a comment to the page. I'm sure it would have +been appreciated. + +>><i> Or 9%. Depending on how you want to fudge the figures. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There is no estimate or fudging involved, we have exact number +</I>><i> of mirrors, I gave the url for each distributions. +</I> +It's your methods of comparison that I'm questioning, not the raw +figures. Have you ever seen statistics that say something like "on the +average, each family has 2,2 children" ? +And have you ever seen a real 0,2 child ? +Or realize that some families will have 1 or 4 or more children, and not +just 2 or 3 ? +Hopefully you understand this point. + +>><i> But maybe it is because they (in policy at least) exclude non-free +</I>>><i> software ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So does debian. +</I> +Current Debian documentation says that they have repositories called +"main", "contrib", and "non-free". (Verified on a current Debian mirror.) +Just what do they put in "non-free" ? +Their documentation says software without a recognized open source +licence or subject to patent claims. + +>><i> And just how rigorously do they apply a no patent-constrained +</I>>><i> software policy ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> A quick research could have answered to this question : +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Software_Patents">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Software_Patents</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> They used to remove mp3 support from source code : +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.csparks.com/redhatUnhoarked/index.xhtml">http://www.csparks.com/redhatUnhoarked/index.xhtml</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But that was 5 years ago. Nowadays, I do not think they still do it +</I>><i> as icecast for example is not modified ( despites supporting mp3 format +</I>><i> but maybe because there is no trace of codecs, it is ok ). +</I> +So apparently not that rigorously, after all. + +>><i> Haven't I heard somewhere that Fedora (and RedHat) are based in the +</I>>><i> U.S. ? So wouldn't it be natural to expect that it would have a +</I>>><i> higher proportion of sites there ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Debian too is based in the US ( managed since 1996 by SPI, based in NYC ). +</I> +Interesting. A distro which accepts patent-constrained software (in +their "non-free" repositories) is now based in the USA. +And you said that 13% of their mirrors were in the USA ? + +><i> ... +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> And I didn't count other country such as Japan, where patents on software +</I>>>><i> are permitted ( <A HREF="http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Japan">http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Japan</A> ), and where the count of PLF +</I>>>><i> mirrors vs Fedora mirrors is 0 to 8. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> 0 ± 1 gives 0 to 12%. Same ballpark. +</I>>><i> Also, recruiting Fedora mirrors could be driven by the commercial +</I>>><i> interests of RedHat. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> "could" is a supposition, and I think you should give facts, not suppositions. +</I> +Just as your side of the argument is a supposition. Which is exactly my +point. Your "facts" don't give convincing support of your supposition. +As far as this supposition goes, if Fedora and/or RedHat (a well-known +entity in free software) were to approach potential mirrors in Japan, +but PLF (almost unknown) did not, just who do you think is more likely +to attract mirror hosts ? + +BTW, you might also have mentioned that there are only 2 Mandriva +mirrors in Japan. (The first 2 you mention below.) + +><i> For the mirror, there is 2 private R&D labs ( KDDI, RIKEN ), 2 university +</I>><i> ( Yamagata, JAIST ), and the rest are network related ( iij.ad.jp, wide.ad.jp, +</I>><i> dti.ad.jp, ftp.ne.jp see <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.jp">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.jp</A> for the meaning of +</I>><i> the various second level domain ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So I doubt that commercial interest of the main sponsor have something to do, +</I>><i> since the profile is quite similar to the usual one of most mirrors ( ie, +</I>><i> people with lots of bandwidth, servers, and interest into helping free software ). +</I> +See my explanation above. + +>>><i> More ever, the fact that this is hosted by some private and rather anonymous +</I>>>><i> company is also a important point. Ie, no .edu or big telco ever contacted +</I>>>><i> PLF to host a mirror, while in France and another country, PLF have both. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Considering that PLF is based on Mandriva, and Mandriva is based in +</I>>><i> France, wouldn't it be natural to expect PLF to be better +</I>>><i> represented there ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think you missed the point. Let me explain : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There is no USA university, nor USA telecom company that contacted PLF. +</I> +And how many USA universities or telecom companies did the PLF contact ? + +><i> On the other hand, in other part of the world, PLF is mainly hosted by telecom +</I>><i> company ( like Zoomnet and Bentel, for example ) and by universities ( Porto, Taiwan, +</I>><i> Bahcesehir among others ). +</I> +In Canada, I don't know of any mirror sites hosted by telecom companies. + And mirror sites at universities are maintained by student +associations. (Generally the computer science club.) +A Mandriva mirror at a university in my region of Canada discontinued, +apparently because the students involved in the (engineering) student +club sponsoring it either lost interest, or more likely, graduated. +Before being discontinued, we had many problems accessing it, starting +about the end of the academic year. (There was a lot of discussion +locally on the net about the problems, so I wasn't the only one affected.) + +Mandriva continued to list it as a mirror for quite a long time afterwards. +(For updates I have always been automatically directed to a slighty +closer USA mirror site.) + +I would imagine that mirror sites in the USA are more or less as in +Canada - none hosted by telecom companies, university-hosted at the +whims of interested students. + +>>>><i> Also, there are only about 400 packages for i586 in PLF mirrors. +</I>>>>><i> Since most are duplicated, I wonder how many distinct packages there are ? +</I>>>>><i> Somehow doubt that an unlicenced copy of quotes from the Simpsons +</I>>>>><i> (one of the 2 plf packages that I didn't find also in Mandriva main) +</I>>>>><i> is going to be a big attraction. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> You should look a little bit more closely. For example, libdvdcss2 is plf only. +</I>>>><i> So does various emulator, lame ( and related like darkice ), gstreamer-bad, +</I>>>><i> etc. There is amule, and similar software. More than 2. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Of the twenty or so PLF packages that I found looking through +</I>>><i> available packages with Mandriva and PLF repositories enabled, only +</I>>><i> 2 did not also have the same version in Mandriva. (All Mandriva +</I>>><i> main, in this sample.) That is about 10% not in Mandriva. +</I>>><i> So for arguments sake let's say 20% are not in Mandriva. That makes +</I>>><i> only about 80 packages only in PLF. +</I>>><i> Impressive, isn't it ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You said on <A HREF="https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/20101201/001576.html">https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/20101201/001576.html</A> +</I>><i> that you have decades of programming experience. So I assume that writing +</I>><i> a script to get more precise numbers would not be too hard instead of +</I>><i> saying "I counted somewhere 20 packages in a limited part of the +</I>><i> distribution" :/ +</I> +I did a quick check for codec and mpeg packages, presumably many being +patent-affected. It took me all of 2 minutes. Just to get a sample. A +complete count serves no purpose. + +>><i> BTW, gstreamer*plugins-bad is in Mandriva contrib. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But not all subpackages. Take a look at the spec file ( using +</I>><i> mdvsys should ease the work ) and see that 5 subpackages +</I>><i> are conditionnaly built. +</I> +ok + +><i> I think you may have missed the point about PLF rpms being at Mandriva. +</I>><i> ( or the contrary, depend on how you look ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> They share the same source code, but they do not link to the same +</I>><i> software, or use the same configure options. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So Mandriva considered that distributing mplayer without enabling mp3 +</I>><i> write support ( with lame ) was safe enough. PLF do the distribution +</I>><i> of lame, and rebuild mplayer with it ( so mencoder can write mp3 ). +</I>><i> Fedora do not distribute mplayer at all. +</I> +Makes sense. Writing mp3 has more at risk of being contested. +And creating content with proprietory protocols really isn't the +vocation of a distro promoting free software. + +><i> And that's basically the same scheme for various dual life packages +</I>><i> ( with variations about the feature that is enabled, there used to be a issue +</I>><i> on font hinting, for freetype and bytecode interpreter ) +</I> +Not surprised. So the PLF is useful, at least for some. + +BTW, I'm not trying to doubt the value of your experience and +contributions, or even to say that we couldn't work well together in my +intended future contributions. Just that I disagree with your +assessment of the impact of patent-affected software in attracting +sufficient mirrors. +That doesn't mean that it might not be, sometime in the future, useful +to have a separate set of repositories for software affected by various +legal or other constraints. Although, in that event, I would very much +prefer that it happens in a separate group, for which I think that the +PLF would be ideal. +Particularly since they could do the job for both Mageia and Mandriva, +as well as Unity, and any other distro that cares to join (the open +invitation by PLF) in the future. +(Athough I do think that they could improve their image by replacing the +guns in their logo with something else :/) +And mirror sites open to carrying such software could use a single set +of repos for all the distros concerned. + +Another 2 cents :) + +- André +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001717.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1716">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1716">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1716">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1716">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001717.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001717.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4a104d080 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001717.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C201012130244.21310.ewilcox%40bex.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001716.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001718.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Ernest N. Wilcox Jr.</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C201012130244.21310.ewilcox%40bex.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">ewilcox at bex.net + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Dec 13 08:44:21 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001716.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001718.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1717">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1717">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1717">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1717">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Consideration of software patents and copyrights does not constitute implicit +support for them. It does however constitute explicit support for obediance of +the law. Like it or not, patent and copyright laws do exist in some countries +(especially the U.S.A. - my home), and it is our responsibility to take those +laws into considertion (whether we want to or not). Laws can not be changed by +ignoring them, only broken. People who break laws are criminals - no ifs, +ands, or buts, about it. If the Mageia community chooses to opeate as a +criminal organization, I will have nothing to do with it. + +We are discussing whether to accomodate software patent and copyright law in +countries where it exists. I can see no way to avoud doing so. We can include +patented software in our distribution if we choose to do so (and I think we +should), but we must provide both mirror hosts and end users (including me) a +method of easily excluding such software. By doing so, we give our users and +supporters the freedom to choose to obey the law where they live and still use +or support our distribution. + +As I see it, we already have a usable mirror lay-out (posted earlier in this +thread). The only real discussion that should remain is whether to include the +"tainted" branch in the official Mageia tree, or to offer it in an alternate +repository such as PLF (my earlier suggestion). + +In either case, I do not believe that ALL patented (or Copyrighted) software +should be placed there (in the "tainted" branch). Some such software comes +with explicit permission to use (perhaps nVidia and/or ATI drivers?). In other +cases, we may be able to contact the patent or copyright holder and get +explicit permission to include their software in our distribution. In such +cases, we should be able to safely (for both our users and supporters) include +the patented / copyrighted software with the official branch of our +distribution. + +my2cents + +-- +Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. +Registered Linux User 247790 +ICQ 41060744 +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001716.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001718.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1717">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1717">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1717">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1717">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001718.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001718.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c032aa091 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001718.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimYtkA_6w%2BXRL0hcJOSe4TUuovQmOjesn5y%2BGRa%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001717.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001719.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Daniel Kreuter</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimYtkA_6w%2BXRL0hcJOSe4TUuovQmOjesn5y%2BGRa%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">daniel.kreuter85 at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Dec 13 10:05:51 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001717.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001719.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1718">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1718">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1718">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1718">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">ewilcox at bex.net</A>>wrote: + +><i> +</I>><i> As I see it, we already have a usable mirror lay-out (posted earlier in +</I>><i> this +</I>><i> thread). The only real discussion that should remain is whether to include +</I>><i> the +</I>><i> "tainted" branch in the official Mageia tree, or to offer it in an +</I>><i> alternate +</I>><i> repository such as PLF (my earlier suggestion). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. +</I>><i> Registered Linux User 247790 +</I>><i> ICQ 41060744 +</I>><i> +</I> +Good point. I would suggest that (with permission like you mentioned) we +include only such patented software in the main repos like drivers. And +everything else like mp3 in the tainted. + +Especially network-drivers should be included, nothing is worse than looking +for the drivers if you have no network (as I always have to do in Debian). + +-- +Mit freundlichen Grüßen + +Greetings + +Daniel Kreuter +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20101213/23e3dab0/attachment-0001.html> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001717.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001719.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1718">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1718">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1718">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1718">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001719.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001719.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9aadcde46 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001719.html @@ -0,0 +1,147 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D05F973.3040001%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001718.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001720.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D05F973.3040001%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Dec 13 11:46:11 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001718.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001720.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1719">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1719">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1719">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1719">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Daniel Kreuter a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">ewilcox at bex.net</A> +</I>><i> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">ewilcox at bex.net</A>>> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As I see it, we already have a usable mirror lay-out (posted earlier +</I>><i> in this +</I>><i> thread). The only real discussion that should remain is whether to +</I>><i> include the +</I>><i> "tainted" branch in the official Mageia tree, or to offer it in an +</I>><i> alternate +</I>><i> repository such as PLF (my earlier suggestion). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. +</I>><i> Registered Linux User 247790 +</I>><i> ICQ 41060744 +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Good point. I would suggest that (with permission like you mentioned) we +</I>><i> include only such patented software in the main repos like drivers. And +</I>><i> everything else like mp3 in the tainted. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Especially network-drivers should be included, nothing is worse than +</I>><i> looking for the drivers if you have no network (as I always have to do +</I>><i> in Debian). +</I> +Generally drivers have permission to distribute, but not to modify or +reverse engineer, and source code is rarely available. +Mandriva does include network drivers. But a lot of other commonly used +drivers aren't on the "free" ISOs. I think they should be in all the +ISOs. Whatever their licence, with the core packages. +So that is one area where Mageia can improve on Mandriva. + +><i> -- +</I>><i> Mit freundlichen Grüßen +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Greetings +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Daniel Kreuter +</I> +Please note that both Ubuntu and Debian carry patented-constrained +software. (Debian officially in their "non-free" repositories.) +Both have many mirrors in the U.S. + +To say that carrying software that may present patent infringement is +illegal is grossly simplefying the issue. +Only if a court decides that a patent is legitimate, and that a +particular software really infringes on that patent, without permission +(direct or indirect or implicitly) of the patent holder, does that +software contravene the civil rights of the patent holder. Most +patents, even if pursued, never reach that stage. + +Note that the patent holder is always free to not pursue apparent patent +violators, thus giving implicit permission. In case of open source +projects, they could decide that it is more in their interests to not +pursue those who would not be in a position to pay royalties, so as to +not discourage the use of their technology, and thus encourage the +development of viable alternatives. +Which could lead to those currently (or potentially in the future) +paying royalties deciding to switch to these patent (and royalty) free +alternatives. + +Copyright infringement is generally much easier to determine, making it +both easier to avoid, as well as easier to prove. +So a policy of insisting on permission to redistribute for copyrightable +material seems appropriate. + +Such an approach for potentially patent-infringing material is virtually +impossible. +(Just think of the bogus Linux kernel case a few years back.) +(Or Microsoft's patent on certain essential elements of a spreadsheet.) + +So in my mind we should wait until until approached by the patent holder +about a particular package before considering designating the package as +patent-constrained. + +Initially, I don't see us needing a set of repositories for contrained +(or "tainted") packages. + +But I do see PLF as a reasonable place for packages we choose not to carry. +They have a open invitation to host constrained packages for any +distribution, as long as packagers volonteer.) +Mageia doesn't necessarily have to be (but could be) involved. I'm sure +there will be volonteers, whatever we decide. + +my 2 cents :) + +- André +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001718.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001720.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1719">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1719">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1719">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1719">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001720.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001720.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a4aacbb02 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001720.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3D6NusPL1Q%2BOFdoGqK4wZk_zTY1CAFZS2OS-esf%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001719.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001721.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Hoyt Duff</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3D6NusPL1Q%2BOFdoGqK4wZk_zTY1CAFZS2OS-esf%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">hoytduff at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Dec 13 15:19:31 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001719.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001721.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1720">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1720">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1720">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1720">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 2:44 AM, Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">ewilcox at bex.net</A>> wrote: +><i> People who break laws are criminals - no ifs, +</I>><i> ands, or buts, about it. +</I> +People who break _criminal_ laws like murder and assault are criminals. +People who break _civil_ laws like traffic or zoning are not usually +considered criminals by the general public. +So, not all laws are alike and not all people who break laws can be +reasonably labeled as criminals. + +When there is dispute in the larger world community as to whether or +not some behavior rises to a criminal nature, one cannot assign it +some moral value and enforce it world-wide with any significance. + +><i> If the Mageia community chooses to opeate as a +</I>><i> criminal organization, I will have nothing to do with it. +</I> +Based on the popular (in the US, at least) maxim of "Ignorance of the +law is no excuse", you as end user are responsible for knowing the +license of the software and acting accordingly. Just because "illegal" +software is available does not mean you are compelled to use it. If +you install software which is permitted in one country but not in +yours, you would be the "criminal". Legally and morally, you cannot +pass on the responsibility of obeying any law to someone else. You +alone have the responsibility for obeying your laws. + +In other words, if the taint is available to you, and you believe to +touch the taint is bad, don't do it. But don't force others to follow +your rules. + +The PLF approach has been a good one because it allows the specific +option of touching the taint or not while accepting the official +distro defaults. + +-- +Hoyt +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001719.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001721.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1720">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1720">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1720">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1720">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001721.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001721.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f069cb223 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001721.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTim-MbSZMT0cXiYoDxDH%3DhLNqz-Zj1_dj517QbAt%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001720.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001722.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTim-MbSZMT0cXiYoDxDH%3DhLNqz-Zj1_dj517QbAt%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Dec 13 16:03:10 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001720.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001722.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1721">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1721">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1721">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1721">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/12/13 Hoyt Duff <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">hoytduff at gmail.com</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> In other words, if the taint is available to you, and you believe to +</I>><i> touch the taint is bad, don't do it. But don't force others to follow +</I>><i> your rules. +</I> +Yes, this applies to users and mirror maintainers in these +environment. This discussion is about exactyl this decision and how +Mageia can make it possible or impossible, hard or easy, for the +mirror maintainers and the users in question. + +I don't think this discussion is about how good or bad legal +restraints on software are, or about how some countries enforce or not +enforce the laws they have. + +><i> The PLF approach has been a good one because it allows the specific option of touching the taint or not while accepting the official distro defaults. +</I> +Exactly. It offers an easy way for the mirror maintainers and the +users to decide, whatever related circumstances you are living in and +whatever your position is on this issue. Why not use it? + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001720.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001722.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1721">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1721">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1721">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1721">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001722.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001722.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..06531413b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001722.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101213202354.GB16770%40maude.comedia.it%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001721.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001726.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Luca Berra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101213202354.GB16770%40maude.comedia.it%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">bluca at vodka.it + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Dec 13 21:23:55 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001721.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001726.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1722">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1722">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1722">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1722">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 02:44:21AM -0500, Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. wrote: +><i>Consideration of software patents and copyrights does not constitute implicit +</I>><i>support for them. It does however constitute explicit support for obediance of +</I>><i>the law. Like it or not, patent and copyright laws do exist in some countries +</I>><i>(especially the U.S.A. - my home), and it is our responsibility to take those +</I>><i>laws into considertion (whether we want to or not). Laws can not be changed by +</I>><i>ignoring them, only broken. People who break laws are criminals - no ifs, +</I>><i>ands, or buts, about it. If the Mageia community chooses to opeate as a +</I>><i>criminal organization, I will have nothing to do with it. +</I>I don't agree on most of the above, and i believe the last sentence to be +offensive, but i will not retaliate lest it becomes a flame war. + +><i>We are discussing whether to accomodate software patent and copyright law in +</I>><i>countries where it exists. I can see no way to avoud doing so. We can include +</I>><i>patented software in our distribution if we choose to do so (and I think we +</I>><i>should), but we must provide both mirror hosts and end users (including me) a +</I>><i>method of easily excluding such software. By doing so, we give our users and +</I>><i>supporters the freedom to choose to obey the law where they live and still use +</I>><i>or support our distribution. +</I>The biggest problem is the variety of patent laws existing in the world, +besides the fact that patents are not granted worldwide, thus forcing +mageia to taint software that should not be under different +legislations. See the difference between fair-use clauses in laws about +circumvention devices. + +><i>As I see it, we already have a usable mirror lay-out (posted earlier in this +</I>><i>thread). The only real discussion that should remain is whether to include the +</I>><i>"tainted" branch in the official Mageia tree, or to offer it in an alternate +</I>><i>repository such as PLF (my earlier suggestion). +</I>I don't believe a separate repository would give any benefit, in any +case it would be software provided by mageia, and built on mageia +build-cluster. + +><i>In either case, I do not believe that ALL patented (or Copyrighted) software +</I>><i>should be placed there (in the "tainted" branch). Some such software comes +</I>><i>with explicit permission to use (perhaps nVidia and/or ATI drivers?). In other +</I>><i>cases, we may be able to contact the patent or copyright holder and get +</I>><i>explicit permission to include their software in our distribution. In such +</I>><i>cases, we should be able to safely (for both our users and supporters) include +</I>><i>the patented / copyrighted software with the official branch of our +</I>><i>distribution. +</I>Software with non-free license but permission to distribute should end +in non-free, software with a non-free license and no permission to +distribute should not be distributed. But this is a very different issue +from free-software possibly breaking some patent. Please do not mix the +two issues. + +L. + +-- +Luca Berra -- <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca at vodka.it</A> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001721.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001726.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1722">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1722">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1722">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1722">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001726.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001726.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b92799fbf --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/001726.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D0616B3.6090803%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001722.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Philippe DIDIER</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D0616B3.6090803%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">philippedidier at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Dec 13 13:50:59 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001722.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1726">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1726">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1726">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1726">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>If you don't understand what are patent problems : +<A HREF="http://eupat.ffii.org/patents/effects/ipix/index.en.html">http://eupat.ffii.org/patents/effects/ipix/index.en.html</A> + +Helmut Dersch , a mathematics and physics professor in a German +University created algorythms to stitch photographs into a panorama +view, and proposed it as a free software (panotools) ! + +He did it before than a USA company register patents for such kind of +program ! + +He had to remove his free software from his public university site to +get protected from legal action ! +Some panorama fanatics fortunately provided copyes of those tools on +their own site and we could use them for years... it was the begining of +Hugin (a graphical interface to use these algorythms) and PTviewer + +The libpano13 library which is proposed by Mandriva is limited in its +use not to infringe the USA law (we couldn't build a 360° panorama with +this library!). +PLF repo contains an unlimited version of this library . (same name but +not same "make" configuration : have a look on the spec file !) that +infringes the USA law ! + + +The creator of a software can be prosecuted on the basis of patents even +if they were registered later !!!! + +Being careful doesn't mean accepting this, but being aware of this ! + + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001722.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1726">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1726">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1726">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1726">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bab5d47b8 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 13 December 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>13 December 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Dec 13 07:27:46 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Mon Dec 13 21:23:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 8<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001722.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1722"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001721.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1721"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001726.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1726"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001720.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1720"> </A> +<I>Hoyt Duff +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001717.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1717"> </A> +<I>Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001718.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1718"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001716.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1716"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001719.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1719"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Mon Dec 13 21:23:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Tue Dec 14 12:33:15 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7017acfd2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 13 December 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>13 December 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Dec 13 07:27:46 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Mon Dec 13 21:23:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 8<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001716.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1716"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001717.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1717"> </A> +<I>Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001718.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1718"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001719.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1719"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001726.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1726"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001720.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1720"> </A> +<I>Hoyt Duff +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001721.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1721"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001722.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1722"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Mon Dec 13 21:23:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Tue Dec 14 12:33:15 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7f071bc02 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 13 December 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>13 December 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Dec 13 07:27:46 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Mon Dec 13 21:23:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 8<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001716.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1716"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001717.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1717"> </A> +<I>Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001718.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1718"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001719.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1719"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001726.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1726"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001720.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1720"> </A> +<I>Hoyt Duff +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001721.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1721"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001722.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1722"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Mon Dec 13 21:23:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Tue Dec 14 12:33:15 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d0a471089 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101213/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 13 December 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>13 December 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Dec 13 07:27:46 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Mon Dec 13 21:23:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 8<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01292221666- --> +<LI><A HREF="001716.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1716"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<!--0 01292226261- --> +<LI><A HREF="001717.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1717"> </A> +<I>Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01292226261-01292231151- --> +<LI><A HREF="001718.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1718"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01292226261-01292231151-01292237171- --> +<LI><A HREF="001719.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1719"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +</UL> +<!--1 01292226261-01292249971- --> +<LI><A HREF="001720.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1720"> </A> +<I>Hoyt Duff +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01292226261-01292249971-01292252590- --> +<LI><A HREF="001721.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1721"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +</UL> +<!--1 01292226261-01292271835- --> +<LI><A HREF="001722.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1722"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +</UL> +<!--0 01292244659- --> +<LI><A HREF="001726.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1726"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Mon Dec 13 21:23:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Tue Dec 14 12:33:15 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |