diff options
| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211 | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
| download | archives-1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0.tar archives-1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0.tar.gz archives-1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0.tar.bz2 archives-1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0.tar.xz archives-1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0.zip | |
Diffstat (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211')
23 files changed, 2440 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001696.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001696.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..90c0c473f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001696.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DmgrDAVijCd40ANqDktpJ%3DivHf5LvsMCdU14%2B_%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001697.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DmgrDAVijCd40ANqDktpJ%3DivHf5LvsMCdU14%2B_%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 00:12:51 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001697.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1696">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1696">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1696">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1696">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/12/10 andre999 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> We should remember that patents are a civil right accorded by rules +</I>><i> differing from country to country.  Many countries don't offer patents on +</I>><i> software. +</I> +But some do and here we are talking about those that do. + +><i> Patent holders have to use the courts to enforce these rights, who often +</I>><i> deny or limit patent holder's claims. +</I> +It is not about enforcing patent rights, it is about distributing +software which is infringing existing patent rights in said countries. + +><i> So in addition to any theoretical rights of software patent holders, there +</I>><i> is the consideration "is it worth the money and effort for the potential +</I>><i> gain in royalties" ? +</I> +This is not the question because we are not talking about costly court trials. + +><i> "cease and desist" letters are just warnings.  Any attached "bill" would +</I>><i> only have effect if validatated by a court. +</I> +Yes, I can refuse to pay, then it goes to court. And with an existing +law which protects patented software, who do you think will win? + +><i> And how does that translate for free software ? +</I> +It has nothing to do which subject it is. Such warnings are sent out +to the hundreds about all kinds of things like missing or incorrect +imprints on websites or whatever. There are whole lawyer's companies +specialized on that. Remember, we are not talking about Mageia and/or +large companies or organisations as I already wrote, we are talking +about the private mirror maintainer who has no backup. + +Well, maybe I can not make myself understood sufficiently. All I can +say, it has nothing to do with paranoia, it is reality. We +(mandrivauser.de) decided unanomously not to mirror PLF because of +such reasons because there are possibilities of such liabilities even +in Germany. + +So, all in all my point is: +separating such software from the rest makes it possible for mirror +maintainers in such difficult areas to decide. Mixing such software +with all other software makes it almost impossible for same small +mirrors to mirror Mageia at all. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001697.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1696">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1696">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1696">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1696">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001697.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001697.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9e2ef755b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001697.html @@ -0,0 +1,175 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D03071D.90806%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001696.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001698.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D03071D.90806%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 06:07:41 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001696.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001698.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1697">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1697">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1697">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1697">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Wolfgang Bornath a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> 2010/12/10 andre999<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>>: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> We should remember that patents are a civil right accorded by rules +</I>>><i> differing from country to country. Many countries don't offer patents on +</I>>><i> software. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But some do and here we are talking about those that do. +</I> +OK ... + +>><i> Patent holders have to use the courts to enforce these rights, who often +</I>>><i> deny or limit patent holder's claims. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It is not about enforcing patent rights, it is about distributing +</I>><i> software which is infringing existing patent rights in said countries. +</I> +Software (or anything else) only infringes on a patent if a court says +so. If the court hasn't pronounced, there is no infringement. +All a patent offers is the right to make a claim of infringement. +If it is not enforced over a long period of time, courts often decide +that it is no longer enforceable. (One sees that in many U.S. court +decisions.) + +>><i> So in addition to any theoretical rights of software patent holders, there +</I>>><i> is the consideration "is it worth the money and effort for the potential +</I>>><i> gain in royalties" ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is not the question because we are not talking about costly court trials. +</I> +The damages claimable are in proportion to the loss the claimant can +demonstrate. So even if they win (at least partially), will it be worth +the effort ? + +>><i> "cease and desist" letters are just warnings. Any attached "bill" would +</I>>><i> only have effect if validatated by a court. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, I can refuse to pay, then it goes to court. And with an existing +</I>><i> law which protects patented software, who do you think will win? +</I> +Again, until it decided by a court, it is only an unvalidated claim. +In the U.S., rarely does a patent holder win enough to justify their +legal costs. If they win. A lot of the costs are pretrial preparation, +to develop a case. + +>><i> And how does that translate for free software ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It has nothing to do which subject it is. Such warnings are sent out +</I>><i> to the hundreds about all kinds of things like missing or incorrect +</I>><i> imprints on websites or whatever. There are whole lawyer's companies +</I>><i> specialized on that. Remember, we are not talking about Mageia and/or +</I>><i> large companies or organisations as I already wrote, we are talking +</I>><i> about the private mirror maintainer who has no backup. +</I> +These warnings are a tactic to scare the naive, to a large degree. +Lawyers and others do it everywhere. Did you realise that these +warnings generally contain a statement to ensure that they can't be used +in court against the author ? Because the usually excessive demands +will work against them in court ? + +><i> Well, maybe I can not make myself understood sufficiently. All I can +</I>><i> say, it has nothing to do with paranoia, it is reality. We +</I>><i> (mandrivauser.de) decided unanomously not to mirror PLF because of +</I>><i> such reasons because there are possibilities of such liabilities even +</I>><i> in Germany. +</I> +I would suggest that you would have more risk each time you cross the +street, than your site to be pursued for carrying packages which might +be subject to patents. But that is for you to decide. + +The PLF has several sites in the U.S., who remain unthreatened despite +the fact that they distribute software using patented mpeg technology. +And the patent holders are pursuing others in the U.S. The difference +being that the others are making a profit with the mpeg technology. +That is an important part of the potential to win enough in court to +make it worth the cost. It is particularly important in the U.S. +courts, according to the various information I encounter. + +><i> So, all in all my point is: +</I>><i> separating such software from the rest makes it possible for mirror +</I>><i> maintainers in such difficult areas to decide. Mixing such software +</I>><i> with all other software makes it almost impossible for same small +</I>><i> mirrors to mirror Mageia at all. +</I> +I do see your point. I just think that you are greatly overestimating +the risk. + +Don't forget, virtually all software, in some respect, can be considered +subject to patent claims. +Microsoft has a patent on some charactistic necessarily used by all +spreadsheets. Including Visicalc, which predates anything Microsoft +produced. +(I forget the details, something ridiculously simple.) +It is obviously unenforceable; no court would endorse it. + +The Linux kernel is supposedly subject to many patents. +So if you want to avoid all potential software patent claims, you should +probably avoid Linux. + +Don't forget, as Romain said, if a particular software becomes targeted +or a patent claim becomes problematic, we can deal with it when the +problem arises. + +Another point is that until we would be notified about such a patent +claim against us, it is highly unlikely that any court would award any +damages or compensation. Patent holders have the right to not request +royalties, selectively or otherwise. +Our position creating or distributing free software would create the +likely presumption that the patent holder chose not to pursue royalties +from us. (At least it works like that in the U.S.) + +Seriously, I don't think that any Mageia mirror is at risk - at least +not before being directly notified of a specific claim - and being given +the opportunity to withdraw the offending package(s). + +another 2 cents :) + +André +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001696.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001698.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1697">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1697">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1697">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1697">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001698.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001698.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1ae5326cb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001698.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinPXu8bj_tEFK152ibMV9JVyy%3Dj5EqAunzRkL82%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001697.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001703.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Daniel Kreuter</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinPXu8bj_tEFK152ibMV9JVyy%3Dj5EqAunzRkL82%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">daniel.kreuter85 at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 07:30:06 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001697.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001703.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1698">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1698">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1698">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1698">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 6:07 AM, andre999 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>> wrote: + +><i> Don't forget, virtually all software, in some respect, can be considered +</I>><i> subject to patent claims. +</I>><i> Microsoft has a patent on some charactistic necessarily used by all +</I>><i> spreadsheets. Including Visicalc, which predates anything Microsoft +</I>><i> produced. +</I>><i> (I forget the details, something ridiculously simple.) +</I>><i> It is obviously unenforceable; no court would endorse it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The Linux kernel is supposedly subject to many patents. +</I>><i> So if you want to avoid all potential software patent claims, you should +</I>><i> probably avoid Linux. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>If every developer on this world who writes open source software would care +about such patents, than nobody would be able to program because you have to +fear that a big company like Microsoft will have a patent on some part of +code. But as you mentioned in previous posts, only such people with lots of +money will have problems. + + + +-- +Mit freundlichen Grüßen + +Greetings + +Daniel Kreuter +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20101211/8a9496b6/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001697.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001703.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1698">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1698">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1698">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1698">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001699.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001699.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..85c85b62a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001699.html @@ -0,0 +1,88 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211093301.GC14029%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001704.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001702.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Michael scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211093301.GC14029%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 10:33:01 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001704.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001702.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1699">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1699">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1699">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1699">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 03:15:40PM -0500, andre999 wrote: + +><i> And how does that translate for free software ? +</I>><i> In the U.S., software patent holders have avoided attacking targets +</I>><i> without a lot of financial resources. +</I> +Well, what if we end having enough ressources in the futur ? + +><i> The only Linux-associated target I recall is Novell. +</I> +And TomTom ( <A HREF="http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/02/25/232212/Has-Microsofts-Patent-War-Against-Linux-Begun">http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/02/25/232212/Has-Microsofts-Patent-War-Against-Linux-Begun</A> ) +And a patent deal was done with Amazon ( +<A HREF="http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/02/23/1231255/Microsoft-Amazon-Ink-Kindle-and-Linux-Patent-Deal">http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/02/23/1231255/Microsoft-Amazon-Ink-Kindle-and-Linux-Patent-Deal</A> ). +And I am sure that with more than 3 minutes research, I can find plenty of example. + +><i> Mpeg patents are pursued, but the several PLF mirrors in the U.S., +</I>><i> with openly indicated patented packages, are ignored. +</I> +Many PLF mirrors ? +I see only 2 of them, and one of them is out ( non existant domain, +bigsearcher.com ) +<A HREF="http://plf.zarb.org/mirrors.php">http://plf.zarb.org/mirrors.php</A> +So basically "many PLF mirrors" = 1 ? + +Not to mention that a ratio of 2 mirrors in the USA out of a total +of 25 seems rather odd, for something that admins do not care. + +-- +Michael Scherer +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001704.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001702.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1699">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1699">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1699">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1699">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001700.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001700.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b05c32c2e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001700.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211094210.GD14029%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001713.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001701.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Michael scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211094210.GD14029%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 10:42:10 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001713.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001701.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1700">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1700">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1700">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1700">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 02:26:32PM -0500, andre999 wrote: +><i> Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +</I> +><i> > - for packaging/shipping the distribution +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Evidently easier to package. (One less consideration.) +</I>><i> As well, the problem doesn't exist in France, so Mageia itself won't +</I>><i> be a target. +</I> +This is a over simplification. +PLF is not only for patented softwares, but also for softwares that +have others issues ( DMCA, copyright claim, etc ). +So from a packaging point of view, we would still +have a separate repository, so the consideration would +likely still exist. + +><i> > - for using it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It doesn't seem that any individual user has been pursued for using +</I>><i> unauthorised patent-affected software. +</I>><i> So using patent-affected software is a non-issue for users. +</I>><i> (Unless they choose to avoid such software, of course.) +</I> +We should not only take care of individual users, companies can also use +a linux distribution. See how debian is used in many embedded product, or Fedora +for that matter. +So no, this is not a non-issue for users, because there is more than +"individual users" in the users group. + +-- +Michael Scherer +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001713.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001701.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1700">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1700">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1700">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1700">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001701.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001701.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3e696585a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001701.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimo4TGFzqWFsnn0gLyAWb1XLnM9FanHEvEf15f4%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001700.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001707.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimo4TGFzqWFsnn0gLyAWb1XLnM9FanHEvEf15f4%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 10:52:16 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001700.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001707.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1701">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1701">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1701">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1701">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:42, Michael scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +><i> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 02:26:32PM -0500, andre999 wrote: +</I>>><i> Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> >  - for packaging/shipping the distribution +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Evidently easier to package.  (One less consideration.) +</I>>><i> As well, the problem doesn't exist in France, so Mageia itself won't +</I>>><i> be a target. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is a over simplification. +</I>><i> PLF is not only for patented softwares, but also for softwares that +</I>><i> have others issues ( DMCA, copyright claim, etc ). +</I>><i> So from a packaging point of view, we would still +</I>><i> have a separate repository, so the consideration would +</I>><i> likely still exist. +</I> +Indeed. But it then shows that it really makes sense to separate +issues per packaging media (so that end-users may decide on a +case-by-case basis), provided each issue is not valid worldwide, +neither uniformely. + +Putting everything under a "tainted" repository will just push the +problem one step aside. Putting issues separately helps having a clear +policy, per type of issue (because the problem is different). + +Romain +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001700.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001707.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1701">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1701">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1701">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1701">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001702.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001702.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..10b94910f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001702.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTin-PpLLGjih-%3DDRC-tM-3QJOyp-4y0Ebi7Gn%2BnB%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001699.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001708.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTin-PpLLGjih-%3DDRC-tM-3QJOyp-4y0Ebi7Gn%2BnB%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 10:54:15 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001699.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001708.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1702">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1702">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1702">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1702">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:33, Michael scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +><i> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 03:15:40PM -0500, andre999 wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> And how does that translate for free software ? +</I>>><i> In the U.S., software patent holders have avoided attacking targets +</I>>><i> without a lot of financial resources. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, what if we end having enough ressources in the futur ? +</I> +We could see then. Nothing is set in stone, ever. So far, all we have +to decide is: + - questions; + - some legal advice that goes back to a risk management advice; + - a few renowned public cases; + - other linux distributions doing it anyway; + - no direct experience. + +Romain +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001699.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001708.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1702">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1702">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1702">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1702">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001703.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001703.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7ac9c21e1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001703.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimY0UX60kAjzhemWehT3yKwvn9CQ%3DpEX0x2%2BeXn%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001698.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001704.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimY0UX60kAjzhemWehT3yKwvn9CQ%3DpEX0x2%2BeXn%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 11:08:50 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001698.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001704.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1703">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1703">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1703">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1703">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/12/11 andre999 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> Software (or anything else) only infringes on a patent if a court says so. +</I> +I am not talking about being sued for patent infringement, I may have +said it not clearly enough: I am talking about distributing (not +writing) software which is already protected by patents in a country +where software patents are acknowledged. + +>><i> This is not the question because we are not talking about costly court +</I>>><i> trials. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The damages claimable are in proportion to the loss the claimant can +</I>><i> demonstrate.  So even if they win (at least partially), will it be worth the +</I>><i> effort ? +</I> +Again, we are not talking about court trials about the writing of the +software and thus infringing some patent, I am talking about +distributing software which is already known to be patented software. +I am not talking about sease & desist letters with a bill for the +lawyer's work. Not about any punishment fees or whatever you have to +pay after you loose a court trial. + +>>><i> "cease and desist" letters are just warnings.  Any attached "bill" would +</I>>>><i> only have effect if validatated by a court. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Yes, I can refuse to pay, then it goes to court. And with an existing +</I>>><i> law which protects patented software, who do you think will win? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Again, until it decided by a court, it is only an unvalidated claim. +</I>><i> In the U.S., rarely does a patent holder win enough to justify their legal +</I>><i> costs.  If they win.  A lot of the costs are pretrial preparation, to +</I>><i> develop a case. +</I> +Tell that to the senders of thousands of such letters, each with a 100 +USD bill attached. +Again, we are NOT talking about big companies sueing other companies +for patent infringement. + +><i> These warnings are a tactic to scare the naive, to a large degree. +</I>><i> Lawyers and others do it everywhere.  Did you realise that these warnings +</I>><i> generally contain a statement to ensure that they can't be used in court +</I>><i> against the author ?  Because the usually excessive demands will work +</I>><i> against them in court ? +</I> +Is that so in the US? It is different in Germany. The demands have +been excessive but the highest court decided that these fees should +only cover the cost of the lawyer who sends this cease & desist +letter. It's around 100 Euros maximum IIRC. + + +Daniel Kreutzer wrote: +><i> If every developer on this world who writes open source software would care about such patents, than nobody would be able to program because you have to fear that a big company like Microsoft will have a patent on some part of code. But as you mentioned in previous posts, only such people with lots of money will have problems. +</I> +I did not write anything about developers. I wrote about maintainers +of mirrors who are distributing patented software in a country where +such patents are acknowledged. That's a totally different picture. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001698.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001704.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1703">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1703">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1703">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1703">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001704.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001704.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ebf0108e6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001704.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DPbVyNSy0YN4Tkn5h4LFMq4Ebvm7J3w_v2Dzqh%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001703.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001699.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DPbVyNSy0YN4Tkn5h4LFMq4Ebvm7J3w_v2Dzqh%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 11:11:32 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001703.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001699.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1704">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1704">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1704">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1704">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/12/11 Wolfgang Bornath <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>>: + +><i> I am not talking about sease & desist letters with a bill for the +</I>><i> lawyer's work. +</I> +Sorry, wrong. I AM talking about cease & desist letters with a bill +for the lawyer's work. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001703.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001699.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1704">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1704">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1704">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1704">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001705.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001705.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7e7d90205 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001705.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211111719.GI21938%40mars-attacks.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001710.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001706.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>nicolas vigier</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211111719.GI21938%40mars-attacks.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">boklm at mars-attacks.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 12:17:19 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001710.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001706.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1705">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1705">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1705">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1705">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 11 Dec 2010, Michael scherer wrote: + +><i> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 02:26:32PM -0500, andre999 wrote: +</I>><i> > It doesn't seem that any individual user has been pursued for using +</I>><i> > unauthorised patent-affected software. +</I>><i> > So using patent-affected software is a non-issue for users. +</I>><i> > (Unless they choose to avoid such software, of course.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> We should not only take care of individual users, companies can also use +</I>><i> a linux distribution. See how debian is used in many embedded product, or Fedora +</I>><i> for that matter. +</I> +For companies making embedded products, I think they need to carefully +select the software they include in their product. But I don't think +having patented software available on mirrors is a problem, if they are +not installed on the product they are selling. + +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001710.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001706.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1705">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1705">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1705">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1705">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001706.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001706.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..88aa31912 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001706.html @@ -0,0 +1,128 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D036EB0.7090004%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001705.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001709.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D036EB0.7090004%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 13:29:36 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001705.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001709.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1706">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1706">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1706">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1706">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael scherer a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 02:26:32PM -0500, andre999 wrote: +</I>>><i> Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> - for packaging/shipping the distribution +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Evidently easier to package. (One less consideration.) +</I>>><i> As well, the problem doesn't exist in France, so Mageia itself won't +</I>>><i> be a target. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is a over simplification. +</I>><i> PLF is not only for patented softwares, but also for softwares that +</I>><i> have others issues ( DMCA, copyright claim, etc ). +</I>><i> So from a packaging point of view, we would still +</I>><i> have a separate repository, so the consideration would +</I>><i> likely still exist. +</I> +As for copyrighted material, I think we should only distribute material +that has a licence permitting redistribution, or for which we have +special permission to redistribute. +As for other legally constrained packages, PLF is a reasonable solution. + +But I don't see the utility of being worried about patent-constrained +software at this point, since it hasn't, to the best of my knowledge, +impacted mirrors or end-users. + +BTW, industry publications here in Canada have a lot of articles about +legal issues affecting software, and often discuss the situation in the +U.S. On which I base much of my opinions. + +>>><i> - for using it. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> It doesn't seem that any individual user has been pursued for using +</I>>><i> unauthorised patent-affected software. +</I>>><i> So using patent-affected software is a non-issue for users. +</I>>><i> (Unless they choose to avoid such software, of course.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> We should not only take care of individual users, companies can also use +</I>><i> a linux distribution. See how debian is used in many embedded product, or Fedora +</I>><i> for that matter. +</I>><i> So no, this is not a non-issue for users, because there is more than +</I>><i> "individual users" in the users group. +</I> +Good. Remove "individual", and my statement still stands. + +Note that there is a difference between +- using or distributing software which may use patented technology, and +- developing or selling such software for a profit. + +The former is little affected by patent claims in the U.S., but the +latter has resulted in some spectacular cases. +Like the recent case where a Texas court awarded a smalll canadian +company over 200 million dollars for patent infringement claimed in +Microsoft word, which Microsoft is appealing. +Note that Ms-word is not exactly free. +(It is a U.S. patent : Canada doesn't issue software patents.) + +Also note that end users, be they individuals or companies, have a +choice of what software they install and use. +In addition to what they integrate into their products to sell. +So they will have the opportunity to react appropriately should problems +arise. + +As will Mageia. + +- André +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001705.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001709.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1706">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1706">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1706">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1706">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001707.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001707.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8b6904b53 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001707.html @@ -0,0 +1,127 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211131633.GE14029%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001701.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001710.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Michael scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211131633.GE14029%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 14:16:33 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001701.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001710.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1707">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1707">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1707">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1707">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:52:16AM +0100, Romain d'Alverny wrote: +><i> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:42, Michael scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> > On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 02:26:32PM -0500, andre999 wrote: +</I>><i> >> Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >> >  - for packaging/shipping the distribution +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> Evidently easier to package.  (One less consideration.) +</I>><i> >> As well, the problem doesn't exist in France, so Mageia itself won't +</I>><i> >> be a target. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > This is a over simplification. +</I>><i> > PLF is not only for patented softwares, but also for softwares that +</I>><i> > have others issues ( DMCA, copyright claim, etc ). +</I>><i> > So from a packaging point of view, we would still +</I>><i> > have a separate repository, so the consideration would +</I>><i> > likely still exist. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Indeed. But it then shows that it really makes sense to separate +</I>><i> issues per packaging media (so that end-users may decide on a +</I>><i> case-by-case basis), provided each issue is not valid worldwide, +</I>><i> neither uniformely. +</I>><i> +</I>PLF has a policy ( enforced by a rpmlint module and a check at upload, iirc ) +of explaining why a package is in plf, and let user decide. + +I think that is is quite important to know why a package is in such repositories, +and later, once we have a better view of what are the exact requirements of mirrors, +and if this is worth, we can find a more granular system ( ie, filtering for just +2 mirrors when we will already have many others do not seem like a wise idea ). + +And so basically, we have 2 groups : +Users and mirrors. +We push the responsability to users to decide what they want to install. +And for mirrors, we provide them with a simple system to decide. People +who do not care do not care. People who care would likely not spend +days checking every packages. + +><i> Putting everything under a "tainted" repository will just push the +</I>><i> problem one step aside. Putting issues separately helps having a clear +</I>><i> policy, per type of issue (because the problem is different). +</I> +Either we have 1 repository, or we have more. + +1 per global type of issue do not seem useful. For example, patents +are per country ( or group of country ), despites some efforts to global +harmonisation. The same apply to local laws ( DMCA, etc ). So saying +"everything patents related go there" do not help much, neither mirrors or +users. + +We could have one repository per country. But that would lead to +- have a explosion of combinaison ( germany-french-non-us-non-japan-etc ) +or +- duplicate the rpm in each country repository ( and having one +software being forbidden in one country would requires it to be present +on all others folder, so the growth is proportional to the number +of country on earth ). + +And in both case, we would need expert from each country to decide. While +it is already difficult for usual case, this would nearly impossible for +everything. But not doing so would render the classification useless. + +So I think that the easiest way is to have 1 repository, to explain why +packages are there, and later, once we found the ressources, to tag them, +if there is people ready to work on it. + +-- +Michael Scherer +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001701.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001710.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1707">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1707">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1707">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1707">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001708.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001708.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7af32fafa --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001708.html @@ -0,0 +1,98 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D0379B1.8040103%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001702.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001711.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D0379B1.8040103%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 14:16:33 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001702.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001711.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1708">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1708">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1708">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1708">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael scherer a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 03:15:40PM -0500, andre999 wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> And how does that translate for free software ? +</I>>><i> In the U.S., software patent holders have avoided attacking targets +</I>>><i> without a lot of financial resources. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, what if we end having enough ressources in the futur ? +</I> +We can consider that then. But since we aren't selling the constrained +software for a profit, I see no problem. + +>><i> Mpeg patents are pursued, but the several PLF mirrors in the U.S., +</I>>><i> with openly indicated patented packages, are ignored. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Many PLF mirrors ? +</I>><i> I see only 2 of them, and one of them is out ( non existant domain, +</I>><i> bigsearcher.com ) +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://plf.zarb.org/mirrors.php">http://plf.zarb.org/mirrors.php</A> +</I>><i> So basically "many PLF mirrors" = 1 ? +</I> +Note that I said "several", and not "many". +The dictionary definition of several is "more than 2 but not many". +Sorry I miscounted. I thought I saw 3. +And you're right. The one I didn't visit is no longer active. + +><i> Not to mention that a ratio of 2 mirrors in the USA out of a total +</I>><i> of 25 seems rather odd, for something that admins do not care. +</I> +2 of 25 PLF mirrors in the U.S. +16 of 133 Mandriva mirrors in the U.S. +About the same ratio. +A lot fewer PLF mirrors, but since most packages in PLF seem to be in +Mandriva main, I suspect it is more by lack of interest. +Also, there are only about 400 packages for i586 in PLF mirrors. +Since most are duplicated, I wonder how many distinct packages there are ? +Somehow doubt that an unlicenced copy of quotes from the Simpsons (one +of the 2 plf packages that I didn't find also in Mandriva main) is going +to be a big attraction. + +- André +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001702.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001711.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1708">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1708">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1708">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1708">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001709.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001709.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..71cebc000 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001709.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211134100.GA32305%40maude.comedia.it%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001706.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001712.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>Luca Berra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211134100.GA32305%40maude.comedia.it%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">bluca at vodka.it + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 14:41:00 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001706.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001712.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1709">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1709">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1709">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1709">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 09:46:21PM +0100, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: +><i>Thinking of PLF, "MLF" comes to mind but that abbreviation has another +</I>><i>well-known meaning. :) "pisc" (patented in some countries) is another +</I>what i particulary like about the plf name is the "liberation" word, +which has a clear positive meaning. +every other suggestions in this thread has a negative connotation +'tainted', 'swamp', etc. + +Wording should not convey the meaning that it is illegal, thus _wrong_ +to use this kind of software. + +Wording should convey the meaning that using this kind of software is a +way to express personal freedom without really committing any _wrong_. + +I would really hate if a free software distribution fell in the trap of +supporting the idea that software patents are _right_. + +L. + + +-- +Luca Berra -- <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bluca at vodka.it</A> +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001706.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001712.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1709">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1709">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1709">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1709">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001710.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001710.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ad1ebf4da --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001710.html @@ -0,0 +1,154 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D038B30.6070004%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001707.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001705.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D038B30.6070004%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 15:31:12 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001707.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001705.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1710">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1710">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1710">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1710">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael scherer a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:52:16AM +0100, Romain d'Alverny wrote: +</I>>><i> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:42, Michael scherer<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +</I>>>><i> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 02:26:32PM -0500, andre999 wrote: +</I>>>>><i> Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>>><i> - for packaging/shipping the distribution +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Evidently easier to package. (One less consideration.) +</I>>>>><i> As well, the problem doesn't exist in France, so Mageia itself won't +</I>>>>><i> be a target. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> This is a over simplification. +</I>>>><i> PLF is not only for patented softwares, but also for softwares that +</I>>>><i> have others issues ( DMCA, copyright claim, etc ). +</I>>>><i> So from a packaging point of view, we would still +</I>>>><i> have a separate repository, so the consideration would +</I>>>><i> likely still exist. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Indeed. But it then shows that it really makes sense to separate +</I>>><i> issues per packaging media (so that end-users may decide on a +</I>>><i> case-by-case basis), provided each issue is not valid worldwide, +</I>>><i> neither uniformely. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> PLF has a policy ( enforced by a rpmlint module and a check at upload, iirc ) +</I>><i> of explaining why a package is in plf, and let user decide. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think that is is quite important to know why a package is in such repositories, +</I>><i> and later, once we have a better view of what are the exact requirements of mirrors, +</I>><i> and if this is worth, we can find a more granular system ( ie, filtering for just +</I>><i> 2 mirrors when we will already have many others do not seem like a wise idea ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And so basically, we have 2 groups : +</I>><i> Users and mirrors. +</I>><i> We push the responsability to users to decide what they want to install. +</I>><i> And for mirrors, we provide them with a simple system to decide. People +</I>><i> who do not care do not care. People who care would likely not spend +</I>><i> days checking every packages. +</I> +Sounds reasonable. + +As for the mirrors, I would say the best thing to do is use PLF for +constrained packages, with their accompanying explanations. + +But I would be very conservative about putting patent-constrained +software in such a repository. +Why ? Firstly, the risk has been shown to be largely hypothetical. +It is the companies that make a profit by selling patent-constrained +software that are pursued. +Besides the potential of monetory benefit from this practice, I think +that there is another factor involved. The companies want these patents +to be used, in order to collect royalties. They know that non-profit +distributions will not lead to royalties. But at the same time, the +fact that their patents are used by such distributions increases the +prevalence of the usage, thus tends to limit the development of +alternate technologies. The last thing they want is a viable free +alternative to become widely available, as then profit-making royalty +payers will have a less expensive alternative. +So as contradictory as it may seem, it is in the interest of patent +holders to avoid discouraging open source software from using their +patents for free. + +For this reason, I would favour waiting until we (or our mirrors) are +actually approached regarding a particular patent before considering +removing a package from regular repositories for patent reasons. + +>><i> Putting everything under a "tainted" repository will just push the +</I>>><i> problem one step aside. Putting issues separately helps having a clear +</I>>><i> policy, per type of issue (because the problem is different). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Either we have 1 repository, or we have more. +</I> +I think that one PLF repository for constrained packages, with +explanations of why it is there, could be a reasonable compromise. +(Most but not all PLF packages carry an explanation.) +Some things in PLF should definitely be excluded from Mageia, such as +copyrighted material without permission to distribute. + +><i> 1 per global type of issue do not seem useful. For example, patents +</I>><i> are per country ( or group of country ), despites some efforts to global +</I>><i> harmonisation. The same apply to local laws ( DMCA, etc ). So saying +</I>><i> "everything patents related go there" do not help much, neither mirrors or +</I>><i> users. +</I> +As I explained above, I think we should not separate patent-constrained +software until we are approached by the patenting party in question. +This will help minimize (and maybe eliminate) the need for a set of +constrained repositories. + +And have the side effect of simplifying our process, by avoiding dealing +with the ambiguity of deciding what should be treated as +patent-constrainted software. + +><i> ... +</I> +- André +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001707.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001705.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1710">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1710">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1710">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1710">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001711.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001711.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b4b0be3e5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001711.html @@ -0,0 +1,113 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211144005.GF14029%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001708.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001713.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Michael scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101211144005.GF14029%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 15:40:05 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001708.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001713.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1711">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1711">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1711">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1711">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 08:16:33AM -0500, andre999 wrote: + +><i> >Not to mention that a ratio of 2 mirrors in the USA out of a total +</I>><i> >of 25 seems rather odd, for something that admins do not care. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 2 of 25 PLF mirrors in the U.S. +</I> +Technically, 1, since the other is down ( and should be removed from +the list ). +So a ratio of 4%. + +><i> 16 of 133 Mandriva mirrors in the U.S. +</I> +A ratio of 12%. + +Same as debian, based 49 mirrors in the US out of 358. +( ie 13% ), based on <A HREF="http://www.debian.org/mirror/list">http://www.debian.org/mirror/list</A> + +Ubuntu has 12 out of 62 for isos, ie 16%. +<A HREF="http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors">http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors</A> + +And for packages, that 51 out of 367, ie 13% +<A HREF="https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors">https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors</A> + +Opensuse has 22 out of 155, aka 14%. +( <A HREF="http://mirrors.opensuse.org/">http://mirrors.opensuse.org/</A> ). + +Fedora has 59 us mirrors out of 259, ie 22%. +( <A HREF="http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/">http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/</A> ). + +So basically, between Fedora, with a strict policy, and PLF, the +difference is 18%. + +And I didn't count other country such as Japan, where patents on software +are permitted ( <A HREF="http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Japan">http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Japan</A> ), and where the count of PLF +mirrors vs Fedora mirrors is 0 to 8. + +More ever, the fact that this is hosted by some private and rather anonymous +company is also a important point. Ie, no .edu or big telco ever contacted +PLF to host a mirror, while in France and another country, PLF have both. + + +><i> Also, there are only about 400 packages for i586 in PLF mirrors. +</I>><i> Since most are duplicated, I wonder how many distinct packages there are ? +</I>><i> Somehow doubt that an unlicenced copy of quotes from the Simpsons +</I>><i> (one of the 2 plf packages that I didn't find also in Mandriva main) +</I>><i> is going to be a big attraction. +</I> +You should look a little bit more closely. For example, libdvdcss2 is plf only. +So does various emulator, lame ( and related like darkice ), gstreamer-bad, +etc. There is amule, and similar software. More than 2. + +I am sure that using a small shell script, the exact number could be found, if +someone want to invest the time. + +-- +Michael Scherer +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001708.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001713.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1711">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1711">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1711">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1711">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001712.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001712.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8a3cce7f2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001712.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4D039032.4040407%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001709.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout%2C%20round%20two&In-Reply-To=%3C4D039032.4040407%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 15:52:34 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001709.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1712">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1712">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1712">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1712">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Luca Berra a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 09:46:21PM +0100, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: +</I>>><i> Thinking of PLF, "MLF" comes to mind but that abbreviation has another +</I>>><i> well-known meaning. :) "pisc" (patented in some countries) is another +</I>><i> what i particulary like about the plf name is the "liberation" word, +</I>><i> which has a clear positive meaning. +</I>><i> every other suggestions in this thread has a negative connotation +</I>><i> 'tainted', 'swamp', etc. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Wording should not convey the meaning that it is illegal, thus _wrong_ +</I>><i> to use this kind of software. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Wording should convey the meaning that using this kind of software is a +</I>><i> way to express personal freedom without really committing any _wrong_. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I would really hate if a free software distribution fell in the trap of +</I>><i> supporting the idea that software patents are _right_. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> L. +</I> +I agree. +Although (as explained in another post), I think that we should avoid +considering separating any particular patent-constrained package until +we are approached by the patent holder. +Simply because since we are non-profit, all attempting to collect +royalties from us will do is cause us to not use their patent technology +- and push us to use some alternative - which could tend to lead to +others using the same alternative - and thus lead to less usage by those +who do pay royalties. + +For packages we do classify as constrained, we should probably use PLF. +It is part of their policy to host packages for any distro, as long as +contributors are willing to package them. +And as you say, their name doesn't have negative connotations. + +(If we do end up with a constrained set of repos on Mageia, what about +the name "Liberation" ? ) + +- André +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001709.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1712">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1712">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1712">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1712">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001713.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001713.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8a88d4148 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001713.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimcY62Wdnmm1dhpyLEqUJbEYwij-80RvoQ49%2BpM%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001711.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001700.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimcY62Wdnmm1dhpyLEqUJbEYwij-80RvoQ49%2BpM%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 16:02:38 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001711.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001700.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1713">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1713">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1713">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1713">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/12/11 Michael scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> You should look a little bit more closely. For example, libdvdcss2 is plf only. +</I>><i> So does various emulator, lame ( and related like darkice ), gstreamer-bad, +</I>><i> etc. There is amule, and similar software. More than 2. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I am sure that using a small shell script, the exact number could be found, if +</I>><i> someone want to invest the time. +</I> +And there are packages which are in the normal repos as well but PLF +offers them with a wider functionality. As already mentioned Mplayer +and VLC. + +Anyway, whatever you decide, it will be a non-ideal decision because +the circumstances are very different in many countries, + +As this is the case it all comes down to + - either have everything together and let the mirror maintainers and +users sort it out (if needed) + - or have one (1) separate repo with everything not clearly without +dubious contents, making it easy for the mirrors to exclude and for +the users to set or not to set. + +I am not sure I understand what was the problem with the "Mandriva" +solution. This model is/was easy for users and mirrors likewise +(according to my experiences with users and mirrors over the last +years). Certainly I can't tell for the developper side. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001711.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001700.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1713">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1713">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1713">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1713">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..25d740d1e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 11 December 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>11 December 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 00:12:51 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:38 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 18<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001709.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1709"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001696.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1696"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001703.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1703"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001704.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1704"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001713.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1713"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001698.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1698"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001697.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1697"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001706.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1706"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001708.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1708"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001710.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1710"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001712.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1712"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001701.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1701"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001702.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1702"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001699.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1699"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001700.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1700"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001707.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1707"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001711.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1711"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001705.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1705"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:38 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:41 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..05ab3e040 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 11 December 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>11 December 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 00:12:51 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:38 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 18<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001696.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1696"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001697.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1697"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001698.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1698"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001699.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1699"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001700.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1700"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001701.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1701"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001702.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1702"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001703.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1703"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001704.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1704"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001705.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1705"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001706.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1706"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001707.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1707"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001708.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1708"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001709.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1709"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001710.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1710"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001711.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1711"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001712.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1712"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001713.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1713"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:38 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:41 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..24edec7ae --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 11 December 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>11 December 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 00:12:51 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:38 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 18<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001696.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1696"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001697.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1697"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001698.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1698"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001699.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1699"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001700.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1700"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001701.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1701"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001702.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1702"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001703.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1703"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001704.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1704"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001705.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1705"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001706.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1706"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001707.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1707"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001708.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1708"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001710.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1710"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001711.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1711"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001713.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1713"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001709.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1709"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001712.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1712"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:38 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:41 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e329ad93e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,175 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 11 December 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>11 December 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 00:12:51 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:38 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 18<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01292022771- --> +<LI><A HREF="001696.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1696"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01292022771-01292044061- --> +<LI><A HREF="001697.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1697"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01292022771-01292044061-01292049006- --> +<LI><A HREF="001698.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1698"> </A> +<I>Daniel Kreuter +</I> + +<!--2 01292022771-01292044061-01292062130- --> +<LI><A HREF="001703.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1703"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01292022771-01292044061-01292062130-01292062292- --> +<LI><A HREF="001704.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1704"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01292059981- --> +<LI><A HREF="001699.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1699"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01292059981-01292061255- --> +<LI><A HREF="001702.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1702"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<!--1 01292059981-01292073393- --> +<LI><A HREF="001708.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1708"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01292059981-01292073393-01292078405- --> +<LI><A HREF="001711.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1711"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01292059981-01292073393-01292078405-01292079758- --> +<LI><A HREF="001713.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1713"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01292060530- --> +<LI><A HREF="001700.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1700"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01292060530-01292061136- --> +<LI><A HREF="001701.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1701"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01292060530-01292061136-01292073393- --> +<LI><A HREF="001707.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1707"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01292060530-01292061136-01292073393-01292077872- --> +<LI><A HREF="001710.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1710"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 01292060530-01292066239- --> +<LI><A HREF="001705.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1705"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + +<!--1 01292060530-01292070576- --> +<LI><A HREF="001706.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1706"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +</UL> +<!--0 01292074860- --> +<LI><A HREF="001709.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1709"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01292074860-01292079154- --> +<LI><A HREF="001712.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout, round two +</A><A NAME="1712"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:38 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Dec 11 16:02:41 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |