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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015 | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
| download | archives-master.tar archives-master.tar.gz archives-master.tar.bz2 archives-master.tar.xz archives-master.zip | |
Diffstat (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015')
25 files changed, 3023 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001209.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001209.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..795057d34 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001209.html @@ -0,0 +1,190 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3C20101014231837.GA5991%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001214.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Michael scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3C20101014231837.GA5991%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 01:18:37 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001214.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1209">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1209">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1209">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1209">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 09:57:03PM +0200, Olivier Méjean wrote: +><i> Le jeudi 14 octobre 2010 20:55:01, Anssi Hannula a écrit : +</I>><i> > On Wednesday 13 October 2010 20:22:01 Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> > > Le mardi 12 octobre 2010 à 18:02 +0300, Anssi Hannula a écrit : +</I>><i> > > > Hi all! +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > Do people have any thoughts on what kind of repository/media sectioning +</I>><i> > > > we should use on Mageia, and what should those sections contain? +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > Note that I won't talk about backports / private repositories in this +</I>><i> > > > post, only about the basic sectioning and packages in those. +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > Some points to consider (I've written my opinion in ones where I have +</I>><i> > > > one): +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > == Do we want a separated core repository? +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > No separated core: Fedora, Debian, Opensuse +</I>><i> > > > Separated core: Mandriva (main), Ubuntu (main), Arch (Core) +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > How do we decide what would be in core ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > AFAICS the only reasonable reason would be to separate 'supported' and +</I>><i> > 'unsupported' packages (whatever the definition we will choose for those). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What is a supported package or what is an unsupported package ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> For Mandriva it was clear, packages on which Mandriva provides support is in +</I>><i> main, if not it's in contrib. +</I> +No, since there was unsupported packages in main ( think stuff like ld.so1.2 ), +and support could perfectly answer to questions depending on the contract, even +on packages in contribs. + +There is also weird stuff like php-yp ( in contrib ), who was built from the same source than others +php packages, who was thus in main and supported. + +No to mention that there was no process for deciding what goes in main, except that it was required +by something else in main. There is also issues of old packages that were never moved out of +main, despites not really supported. + +So no, it was not clear. + +><i> > > > == What about patents? +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > Almost no software with patents: Fedora, Opensuse +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > - Essentially no media codecs except theora/vorbis/ogg/vp8 etc. +</I>><i> > > > - Strange exception: libXft, Cairo and Qt4 are shipped with LCD +</I>><i> > > > filtering +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > support enabled, even if it is disabled in freetype +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > No software with enforced patents: Debian +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > - not included (at least): x264 (encoder), lame mp3 (encoder) +</I>><i> > > > - included (at least): MPEG/x decoders, H.264 decoders, MP3 decoders, +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > AAC decoders, AMR decoders, DTS decoders, AC3 decoders, +</I>><i> > > > WMV/WMA decoders, realvideo decoders, etc +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > Some software covered by patents not included: Mandriva +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > - see below for more information +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > All software covered by patents allowed: Arch, Ubuntu +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > IMO we should alter our policy to match either Fedora, Debian or +</I>><i> > > > Ubuntu.. The Mandriva policy makes no sense (for example, no AAC +</I>><i> > > > decoder but yes for H.264 decoder and MPEG-4 encoder?). +</I>><i> > > > I'm really not sure which way we should go, though. WDYT? +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > I would go the Debian way. +</I>><i> > > Ubuntu and Fedora are tied to companies, and Debian is not, so their +</I>><i> > > policies are likely more adapted to our own model. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Debian way seems to be more pragmatic that Ubuntu/Fedora on that matter. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Indeed, Debian's situation seems closer to ours. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > However, a bit more investigation shows that the Debian policy "no enforced +</I>><i> > patents" is not really a written policy and what it means in practice is +</I>><i> > not 100% clear. A clarification request [1] has gone unanswered for 1.5 +</I>><i> > years, and "missing" packages x264,lame,xvidcore are sitting in the NEW +</I>><i> > queue [2] without having been accepted or rejected yet (it has "only" been +</I>><i> > 2.5 months, though). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > BTW, other related 'missing' packages in debian are "mjpegtools", "faac", +</I>><i> > "transcode", but the first two are missing due to license reasons instead +</I>><i> > of patent issues: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > mjpegtools contains source files that are "All Rights Reserved" by +</I>><i> > "MPEG/audio software simulation group" (Ubuntu has the package in +</I>><i> > multiverse, Mandriva in main) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > faac contains a limitation that it is not allowed to be used in software +</I>><i> > not conforming to MPEG-2/MPEG-4 Audio standards, which makes it +</I>><i> > non-opensource (Ubuntu has the package in multiverse, Mandriva doesn't +</I>><i> > have it). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > transcode is missing, but there's been no recent activity on it that would +</I>><i> > explain why it isn't there (IIRC its supported codecs are a subset of +</I>><i> > ffmpeg ones, and ffmpeg is in Debian). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > [1] <A HREF="http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=522373">http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=522373</A> +</I>><i> > (note that debian had some encoders disabled in ffmpeg at the time of the +</I>><i> > above report; those have since been enabled) +</I>><i> > [2] <A HREF="http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html">http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Questions about patents is related to which law applies to Mageia. No answers +</I>><i> to which law then no clear policy can be applied. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> For me, since Mageia.org will lead the project (and will own Mageia +</I>><i> trademarks) is located in France, since build system of Mageia will be in +</I>><i> France +</I> +There is no guarantee that the BS will always be located in France. So I think you should +not make assumptions like this. + +><i> then French law is the law we have to consider for Mageia. Debian runs +</I>><i> under SPI organization located in the state of New York, USA, thus is ruled by +</I>><i> US Laws. +</I> +Since the only people who will have issue with this are the president ( aka Anne ) +and the people who distribute this ( ie mirrors admins ), I think we should +ask them and follow their opinions, and only theirs. Because +we can speak of "we have no problem", we will have nothing what ever we do, because we +are likely not liable. Anne and mirrors owners are. So their words is what does count. + +-- +Michael Scherer +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001214.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1209">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1209">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1209">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1209">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001210.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001210.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a093f490e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001210.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DHFor811C8NLmooNWYs9QzK6GdADkxv-35G2JA%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001222.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001211.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DHFor811C8NLmooNWYs9QzK6GdADkxv-35G2JA%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 03:55:56 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001222.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001211.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1210">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1210">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1210">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1210">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/10/14 Marc Paré <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">marc at marcpare.com</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> So, it sounds to me, that a core group individual, should, as an official +</I>><i> representative of the Mageia project, approach these organisations and FSF +</I>><i> to check and to get advice/opinons. Just to make sure. +</I> +Although I may not speak as an official Mageia rep I will present this +issue on the next meeting of our FSFE (FSF Europe) group (I'm a FSFE +Fellow). Maybe I can report back some helpful facts to this +discussion. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001222.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001211.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1210">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1210">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1210">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1210">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001211.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001211.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..60c228385 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001211.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3Ci98d91%24luh%242%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001210.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001212.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3Ci98d91%24luh%242%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 04:11:45 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001210.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001212.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1211">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1211">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1211">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1211">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-10-14 21:55, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit : +><i> 2010/10/14 Marc Paré<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">marc at marcpare.com</A>>: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> So, it sounds to me, that a core group individual, should, as an official +</I>>><i> representative of the Mageia project, approach these organisations and FSF +</I>>><i> to check and to get advice/opinons. Just to make sure. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Although I may not speak as an official Mageia rep I will present this +</I>><i> issue on the next meeting of our FSFE (FSF Europe) group (I'm a FSFE +</I>><i> Fellow). Maybe I can report back some helpful facts to this +</I>><i> discussion. +</I>><i> +</I> +Sound good to me. If there is a Megeia core group lurking on this +thread, could we delegate this task to Wolfgang or if it more of a +pressing matter, someone could speak to the FSF directly for an opinion? + +Marc + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001210.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001212.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1211">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1211">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1211">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1211">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001212.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001212.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..884b35a67 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001212.html @@ -0,0 +1,165 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101014214856.ed444fed.gato2707%40yahoo.com.mx%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001211.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001213.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Fernando Parra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20101014214856.ed444fed.gato2707%40yahoo.com.mx%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 04:48:56 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001211.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001213.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1212">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1212">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1212">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1212">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi everybody. + +I feel that the concept of a new way, as it exist into my mind is not completely understood. Let me try to re-explain again. Please be patient and excuses any mistake with my English (I'm totally out of practice): + +I'm talking about to liberate to novice/novel/without experience user, about concepts like backports, but I'm not talking about close/disappear/eliminate/forgot backports. + +Why? because a big share of them will arrive from a very different environment (especially windows), and as you now, in there those concepts are not only estrange, they simply don't exists. +When a Windows user wants/needs to update a program, as much the only thing that he/she must do is unninstall the old/previous version and then install the new one. + +What programs? Following the same idea, about these kind of users, we should ask: what programs they usually upgrade? The answer could be found asking to the user's themselves, but certainly could be another ways. + +Why not all backports? Reason 1: Because a lot of them don't care about the new version of CUPS (in example) or the new version of Maxima (I'm sure there are a lot clearly examples). +Reason 2: Because there are packages that may causes some incidents after upgrade them. + +How we can solve this situation? Offering a default automatic upgrade for a small group of packages, especially when they change in an important way, in example Firefox 3.6x 3.6x+ or to 4.x + +With this in mind: + +><i> What aspects of the Mandriva backports solution are not satisfactory? +</I> +><i> -The fact that not everything is available as a backport? +</I> +Not all are in backports, more these users don't want/understand a big share of them + +><i> -That users don't know how to request a backport? +</I> +That is true, more, they don't want to learn about that, they only want a new version of their favourite program. + +><i> -That too many backports are available? +</I> +This is matter of who are revising backports, for novice? Yes there are to many. For the geek or the expert? Maybe never there will enough of them. + +><i> -That all users don't get them by default? +</I>><i> -That users doing network installs by default don't get the backport on +</I>><i> initial installation? +</I> +No, they are not get them if we will use a potentially problematic repository. + +><i> -That users aren't aware of backports? +</I>><i> -Something else? +</I> +Panic? Fear? Baal, Luzbel and other demons in their minds? + +><i> Technically speaking? +</I>><i> Less than 'urpmi --searchmedia Backports chromium' ? +</I> +If I was a novice my answer will be: What hell is that? + +><i> Again, before we can decide what *more* we should do (what significant +</I>><i> resources we need to commit), maybe we should first understand why the +</I>><i> existing features (which have significant effort behind them) are not +</I>><i> resulting in user satisfaction. +</I> +More and more reasons to prepare very carefully our offer. All we here appreciate those efforts and there are no way to send them to trash + +><i> Personally I think a poll without educating everyone about what exactly +</I>><i> each choice would mean is useless. We first need to elaborate detailed +</I>><i> alternatives before anyone can make an informed choice. +</I> +IMHO, a democracy without education is not democracy, is populism. I agree at all, we need first elaborate a well structured alternatives and then, explicitly after inform and educate our community we can run a poll, or prepare a council, or any other appropriated way. + +><i> backports should be supported for security patches and bug fixes just like +</I>><i> the main packages (if not instead of the main packages). +</I>><i> Of course the security patch could be simply provided by backporting a +</I>><i> newer version of the package, no need to make patches for each version. +</I> +That is essential, any upgrade must be supported (other valid reason for an small group of packages). + +><i> What I mean is basically when new updates get presented (which would +</I>><i> include new backports) the user could untick specific packages (as is +</I>><i> possible now) but also have a second tick-box to store the choice +</I>><i> permanently in the skip.list. +</I>><i> This would give the user more choice of which packages he wants to always +</I>><i> update to the newest version and wich ones he/she prefers to keep frozen +</I>><i> at the same version. +</I> +Please try to explain that to my grandma, or maybe you could be lucky with some of my students. + +><i> New users who frequented the forums always got to know what backports +</I>><i> are pretty fast. And bugzilla is the perfect system for asking for a +</I>><i> backport, that worked pretty good. +</I> +These users are walking to change into intermediate users, they are no longer basic users. This only for the simple fact that they are posting in a technical forum. Let me remind you: 1,300 millions of Hispanics and only 130 votes at the BlogDrake poll. + +><i> I was thinking about writing a proposal as you suggested, but so far I +</I>><i> haven't found the time. +</I>><i> I don't think this is that urgent, since backports only become an issue +</I>><i> once we have the first release out, but I will try to write up a +</I>><i> proposal well before that. +</I> +I'm writing a proposal as Tux99 does, I need find time for finish it and then translate it. + +Regards from México +-- +Fernando Parra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx</A>> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001211.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001213.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1212">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1212">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1212">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1212">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001213.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001213.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4c9c70bc5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001213.html @@ -0,0 +1,173 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3Dh%3DQcam4-9noKGA0OEqkNiQMPizkr8-VnHJAq3%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001212.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001224.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Ahmad Samir</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3Dh%3DQcam4-9noKGA0OEqkNiQMPizkr8-VnHJAq3%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 06:32:13 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001212.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001224.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1213">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1213">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1213">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1213">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 15 October 2010 04:48, Fernando Parra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx</A>> wrote: +><i> Hi everybody. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I feel that the concept of a new way, as it exist into my mind is not completely understood. Let me try to re-explain again. Please be patient and excuses any mistake with my English (I'm totally out of practice): +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm talking about to liberate to novice/novel/without experience user, about concepts like backports, but I'm not talking about close/disappear/eliminate/forgot backports. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Why? because a big share of them will arrive from a very different environment (especially windows), and as you now, in there those concepts are not only estrange, they simply don't exists. +</I>><i> When a Windows user wants/needs to update a program, as much the only thing that he/she must do is unninstall the old/previous version and then install the new one. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What programs? Following the same idea, about these kind of users, we should ask: what programs they usually upgrade? The answer could be found asking to the user's themselves, but certainly could be another ways. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Why not all backports? Reason 1: Because a lot of them don't care about the new version of CUPS (in example) or the new version of Maxima (I'm sure there are a lot clearly examples). +</I>><i> Reason 2: Because there are packages that may causes some incidents after upgrade them. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> How we can solve this situation? Offering a default automatic upgrade for a small group of packages, especially when they change in an important way, in example Firefox 3.6x 3.6x+ or to 4.x +</I>><i> +</I>><i> With this in mind: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> What aspects of the Mandriva backports solution are not satisfactory? +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> -The fact that not everything is available as a backport? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Not all are in backports, more these users don't want/understand a big share of them +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> -That users don't know how to request a backport? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That is true, more, they don't want to learn about that, they only want a new version of their favourite program. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> -That too many backports are available? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is matter of who are revising backports, for novice? Yes there are to many. For the geek or the expert? Maybe never there will enough of them. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> -That all users don't get them by default? +</I>>><i> -That users doing network installs by default don't get the backport on +</I>>><i> initial installation? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No, they are not get them if we will use a potentially problematic repository. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> -That users aren't aware of backports? +</I>>><i> -Something else? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Panic? Fear? Baal, Luzbel and other demons in their minds? +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Technically speaking? +</I>>><i> Less than 'urpmi --searchmedia Backports chromium' ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If I was a novice my answer will be: What hell is that? +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Again, before we can decide what *more* we should do (what significant +</I>>><i> resources we need to commit), maybe we should first understand why the +</I>>><i> existing features (which have significant effort behind them) are not +</I>>><i> resulting in user satisfaction. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> More and more reasons to prepare very carefully our offer. All we here appreciate those efforts and there are no way to send them to trash +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Personally I think a poll without educating everyone about what exactly +</I>>><i> each choice would mean is useless. We first need to elaborate detailed +</I>>><i> alternatives before anyone can make an informed choice. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> IMHO, a democracy without education is not democracy, is populism. I agree at all, we need first elaborate a well structured alternatives and then, explicitly after inform and educate our community we can run a poll, or prepare a council, or any other appropriated way. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> backports should be supported for security patches and bug fixes just like +</I>>><i> the main packages (if not instead of the main packages). +</I>>><i> Of course the security patch could be simply provided by backporting a +</I>>><i> newer version of the package, no need to make patches for each version. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That is essential, any upgrade must be supported (other valid reason for an small group of packages). +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> What I mean is basically when new updates get presented (which would +</I>>><i> include new backports) the user could untick specific packages (as is +</I>>><i> possible now) but also have a second tick-box to store the choice +</I>>><i> permanently in the skip.list. +</I>>><i> This would give the user more choice of which packages he wants to always +</I>>><i> update to the newest version and wich ones he/she prefers to keep frozen +</I>>><i> at the same version. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Please try to explain that to my grandma, or maybe you could be lucky with some of my students. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> New users who frequented the forums always got to know what backports +</I>>><i> are pretty fast. And bugzilla is the perfect system for asking for a +</I>>><i> backport, that worked pretty good. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> These users are walking to change into intermediate users, they are no longer basic users. This only for the simple fact that they are posting in a technical forum. Let me remind you: 1,300 millions of Hispanics and only 130 votes at the BlogDrake poll. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I was thinking about writing a proposal as you suggested, but so far I +</I>>><i> haven't found the time. +</I>>><i> I don't think this is that urgent, since backports only become an issue +</I>>><i> once we have the first release out, but I will try to write up a +</I>>><i> proposal well before that. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm writing a proposal as Tux99 does, I need find time for finish it and then translate it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Regards from México +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Fernando Parra <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx</A>> +</I>><i> +</I> +Your reply doesn't show whom you're quoting. Please pay more attention +to show whom you're quoting when quoting others' posts :) + +-- +Ahmad Samir +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001212.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001224.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1213">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1213">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1213">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1213">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001214.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001214.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..adc16bae7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001214.html @@ -0,0 +1,222 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%09firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3C201010150743.34299.omejean%40yahoo.fr%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001209.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001215.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Olivier Méjean</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%09firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3C201010150743.34299.omejean%40yahoo.fr%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">omejean at yahoo.fr + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 07:43:34 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001209.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001215.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1214">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1214">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1214">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1214">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le vendredi 15 octobre 2010 01:18:37, Michael scherer a écrit : +><i> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 09:57:03PM +0200, Olivier Méjean wrote: +</I>><i> > Le jeudi 14 octobre 2010 20:55:01, Anssi Hannula a écrit : +</I>><i> > > On Wednesday 13 October 2010 20:22:01 Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> > > > Le mardi 12 octobre 2010 à 18:02 +0300, Anssi Hannula a écrit : +</I>><i> > > > > Hi all! +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Do people have any thoughts on what kind of repository/media +</I>><i> > > > > sectioning we should use on Mageia, and what should those sections +</I>><i> > > > > contain? +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Note that I won't talk about backports / private repositories in +</I>><i> > > > > this post, only about the basic sectioning and packages in those. +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Some points to consider (I've written my opinion in ones where I +</I>><i> > > > > have one): +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > == Do we want a separated core repository? +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > No separated core: Fedora, Debian, Opensuse +</I>><i> > > > > Separated core: Mandriva (main), Ubuntu (main), Arch (Core) +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > How do we decide what would be in core ? +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > AFAICS the only reasonable reason would be to separate 'supported' and +</I>><i> > > 'unsupported' packages (whatever the definition we will choose for +</I>><i> > > those). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > What is a supported package or what is an unsupported package ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > For Mandriva it was clear, packages on which Mandriva provides support is +</I>><i> > in main, if not it's in contrib. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No, since there was unsupported packages in main ( think stuff like +</I>><i> ld.so1.2 ), and support could perfectly answer to questions depending on +</I>><i> the contract, even on packages in contribs. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There is also weird stuff like php-yp ( in contrib ), who was built from +</I>><i> the same source than others php packages, who was thus in main and +</I>><i> supported. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No to mention that there was no process for deciding what goes in main, +</I>><i> except that it was required by something else in main. There is also +</I>><i> issues of old packages that were never moved out of main, despites not +</I>><i> really supported. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So no, it was not clear. +</I> +<A HREF="http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Policies/SoftwareMedia">http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Policies/SoftwareMedia</A> +It seems clear that distinction of main and contrib was just related to +Mandriva wishes. + +><i> +</I>><i> > > > > == What about patents? +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Almost no software with patents: Fedora, Opensuse +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > - Essentially no media codecs except theora/vorbis/ogg/vp8 etc. +</I>><i> > > > > - Strange exception: libXft, Cairo and Qt4 are shipped with LCD +</I>><i> > > > > filtering +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > support enabled, even if it is disabled in freetype +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > No software with enforced patents: Debian +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > - not included (at least): x264 (encoder), lame mp3 (encoder) +</I>><i> > > > > - included (at least): MPEG/x decoders, H.264 decoders, MP3 +</I>><i> > > > > decoders, +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > AAC decoders, AMR decoders, DTS decoders, AC3 decoders, +</I>><i> > > > > WMV/WMA decoders, realvideo decoders, etc +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Some software covered by patents not included: Mandriva +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > - see below for more information +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > All software covered by patents allowed: Arch, Ubuntu +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > IMO we should alter our policy to match either Fedora, Debian or +</I>><i> > > > > Ubuntu.. The Mandriva policy makes no sense (for example, no AAC +</I>><i> > > > > decoder but yes for H.264 decoder and MPEG-4 encoder?). +</I>><i> > > > > I'm really not sure which way we should go, though. WDYT? +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > I would go the Debian way. +</I>><i> > > > Ubuntu and Fedora are tied to companies, and Debian is not, so their +</I>><i> > > > policies are likely more adapted to our own model. +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > Debian way seems to be more pragmatic that Ubuntu/Fedora on that +</I>><i> > > > matter. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Indeed, Debian's situation seems closer to ours. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > However, a bit more investigation shows that the Debian policy "no +</I>><i> > > enforced patents" is not really a written policy and what it means in +</I>><i> > > practice is not 100% clear. A clarification request [1] has gone +</I>><i> > > unanswered for 1.5 years, and "missing" packages x264,lame,xvidcore +</I>><i> > > are sitting in the NEW queue [2] without having been accepted or +</I>><i> > > rejected yet (it has "only" been 2.5 months, though). +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > BTW, other related 'missing' packages in debian are "mjpegtools", +</I>><i> > > "faac", "transcode", but the first two are missing due to license +</I>><i> > > reasons instead of patent issues: +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > mjpegtools contains source files that are "All Rights Reserved" by +</I>><i> > > "MPEG/audio software simulation group" (Ubuntu has the package in +</I>><i> > > multiverse, Mandriva in main) +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > faac contains a limitation that it is not allowed to be used in +</I>><i> > > software not conforming to MPEG-2/MPEG-4 Audio standards, which makes +</I>><i> > > it non-opensource (Ubuntu has the package in multiverse, Mandriva +</I>><i> > > doesn't have it). +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > transcode is missing, but there's been no recent activity on it that +</I>><i> > > would explain why it isn't there (IIRC its supported codecs are a +</I>><i> > > subset of ffmpeg ones, and ffmpeg is in Debian). +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > [1] <A HREF="http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=522373">http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=522373</A> +</I>><i> > > (note that debian had some encoders disabled in ffmpeg at the time of +</I>><i> > > the above report; those have since been enabled) +</I>><i> > > [2] <A HREF="http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html">http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html</A> +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Questions about patents is related to which law applies to Mageia. No +</I>><i> > answers to which law then no clear policy can be applied. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > For me, since Mageia.org will lead the project (and will own Mageia +</I>><i> > trademarks) is located in France, since build system of Mageia will be in +</I>><i> > France +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There is no guarantee that the BS will always be located in France. So I +</I>><i> think you should not make assumptions like this. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > then French law is the law we have to consider for Mageia. Debian runs +</I>><i> > under SPI organization located in the state of New York, USA, thus is +</I>><i> > ruled by US Laws. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Since the only people who will have issue with this are the president ( aka +</I>><i> Anne ) and the people who distribute this ( ie mirrors admins ), I think +</I>><i> we should ask them and follow their opinions, and only theirs. Because +</I>><i> we can speak of "we have no problem", we will have nothing what ever we do, +</I>><i> because we are likely not liable. Anne and mirrors owners are. So their +</I>><i> words is what does count. +</I> +So is Mageia a community project or not ? +Then when we will talk about Marketing stuff we will follow only marketing +group opinions ? + +Of course their views count, but there is a difference between the +responsability of Mageia association that must comply with French Laws and +mirrors admins that must comply with the laws of the country the mirror is +located. OpenBSD project is located in Canada to avoid some US law about +restriction for export (meanwhile for example Red Hat has a policy for its +employees not to answer by IRC to demand from an user located in countries +that are under export restriction due to US law) + +If the structure of the repos need to be adapted so one part can be not +mirrored in certain countries that could be a solution (let's call it export- +restriction) + +I do quite accept that Fedora, OpenSuse, Debian comply with US Law since there +are located in the USA, thus accepting their policy about software patents. I +would like that the same occurs for Mageia that is located in France. + +Olivier +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001209.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001215.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1214">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1214">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1214">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1214">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001215.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001215.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6551c6a0a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001215.html @@ -0,0 +1,112 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimzXYXj8QPfCkzcidE2Yx28%3DV-rFNm%3DHqGLPq%2BR%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001214.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001216.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimzXYXj8QPfCkzcidE2Yx28%3DV-rFNm%3DHqGLPq%2BR%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 10:44:16 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001214.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001216.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1215">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1215">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1215">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1215">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 07:43, Olivier Méjean <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">omejean at yahoo.fr</A>> wrote: +><i> Le vendredi 15 octobre 2010 01:18:37, Michael scherer a écrit : +</I>>><i> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 09:57:03PM +0200, Olivier Méjean wrote: +</I>>><i> Since the only people who will have issue with this are the president ( aka +</I>>><i> Anne ) and the people who distribute this ( ie mirrors admins ), I think +</I>>><i> we should ask them and follow their opinions, and only theirs. Because +</I>>><i> we can speak of "we have no problem", we will have nothing what ever we do, +</I>>><i> because we are likely not liable. Anne and mirrors owners are. So their +</I>>><i> words is what does count. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So is Mageia a community project or not ? +</I> +Yes and? That doesn't prevent that there is an association that will +own trademark, servers, manage money, etc. and that is a legal +construction that may be liable, in France or in regard to +international laws. + +><i> Then when we will talk about Marketing stuff we will follow only marketing +</I>><i> group opinions ? +</I> +Who talks about marketing here? Please stay on topic. Misc is talking +about official representatives, board members liability - not only in +France, but abroad. We're not in Merovingian times where one was +judged according to his original land's law. + +><i> Of course their views count, but there is a difference between the +</I>><i> responsability of Mageia association that must comply with French Laws +</I> +Sure but we can't just say that. See below. + +><i> I do quite accept that Fedora, OpenSuse, Debian comply with US Law since there +</I>><i> are located in the USA, thus accepting their policy about software patents. I +</I>><i> would like that the same occurs for Mageia that is located in France. +</I> +As misc said, there is no guarantee, neither definitive rule that the +build system (or parts of it) would be only located in France. There +is no guarantee that board members will always be in France. There is +no guarantee that we won't setup affiliate not-for-profit orgs abroad. +Etc. + +We're going to distribute software all around the world in several +ways, potentially, so we must think global here, and not only local. + +If we were to follow the "let's only check local law", believe me, we +wouldn't have located the association in France. There are other +places far more interesting in this regard. + +So the question is not "where is it allowed?" and "is it allowed where +we build it?" but: + - what do we _want_ to have in software repositories and _why_? + - what are legal constraints that we must deal with +(building/packaging/distributing/using), and how? + - how can we make this a predictable process for future situations? + + +Romain +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001214.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001216.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1215">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1215">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1215">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1215">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001216.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001216.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a23d5c6b5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001216.html @@ -0,0 +1,143 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010151123420.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001215.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001223.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010151123420.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 11:40:49 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001215.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001223.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1216">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1216">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1216">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1216">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, 15 Oct 2010, Romain d'Alverny wrote: + +><i> > So is Mageia a community project or not ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes and? That doesn't prevent that there is an association that will +</I>><i> own trademark, servers, manage money, etc. and that is a legal +</I>><i> construction that may be liable, in France or in regard to +</I>><i> international laws. +</I> +No one said anything about breaking French laws, in fact what we said is +to follow French law. +There is no such thing as international law, only international treaties +that might have been incorporated into French law. + +><i> Who talks about marketing here? Please stay on topic. Misc is talking +</I>><i> about official representatives, board members liability - not only in +</I>><i> France, but abroad. We're not in Merovingian times where one was +</I>><i> judged according to his original land's law. +</I> +Assuming that a board member get's arrested in the US because Mageia +includes software that is covered by patents is laughable, especially +when that same software is mirrored without problems on US hosts. +I think anyone who is that frightened shouldn't candidate him/herself as +board member. + +><i> As misc said, there is no guarantee, neither definitive rule that the +</I>><i> build system (or parts of it) would be only located in France. +</I> +Moving the BS would only make sense if the countries it moves to +provides a better legal environment, not a worse one, so this argument +doesn't make sense. + +><i> There is no guarantee that board members will always be in France. +</I> +As I said no one is forced to be a board member. + +><i> There is no guarantee that we won't setup affiliate not-for-profit +</I>><i> orgs abroad. +</I>><i> Etc. +</I> +If for this reason Mageia has to be a crippled mediocre product then all +these precautions were a wast of time and efforts too. +There is no point in making a grand, legally sound structure for a +useless product with a fading community. + +><i> We're going to distribute software all around the world in several +</I>><i> ways, potentially, so we must think global here, and not only local. +</I> +True, but take global corporations as example, corporations take +advantage legal evironments offered by specific countries to achieve +their aims, rather than dumb down their products and services so that +they comply with all laws in all countries. + +A successfull Mageia would strive to take advantage of the countries +with the best laws for it's interest rather than plan according to the +lowest common denominator. + +><i> wouldn't have located the association in France. There are other +</I>><i> places far more interesting in this regard. +</I> +And if you want Mageia to be really successful you should take advantage +of those places. + +><i> - what do we _want_ to have in software repositories and _why_? +</I> +Easy, we want the best distro possible, with the best possible out of +the box experience, which for many people includes all necessary codecs +to play every possible media file, to enable transcoding, audio video +production, privacy tools, encryption, etc. + +In other words freedom and ease of use for the user. + +><i> - what are legal constraints that we must deal with +</I>><i> (building/packaging/distributing/using), and how? +</I> +We should strive to take advantage of the best legal environment to make +our targets possible. + +><i> - how can we make this a predictable process for future situations? +</I> +No one can predict the future, laws change all the time so the only way +is to base ourselves on current valid laws and keep frexible to move to +a better legal environment if necessary. + +Opportunities not fear should be the key word here. + +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001215.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001223.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1216">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1216">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1216">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1216">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001217.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001217.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..44eb89af6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001217.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%09firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3C201010151430.35543.anssi.hannula%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001223.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001225.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Anssi Hannula</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%09firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3C201010151430.35543.anssi.hannula%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">anssi.hannula at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 13:30:35 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001223.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001225.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1217">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1217">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1217">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1217">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael scherer kirjoitti perjantai, 15. lokakuuta 2010 02:18:37: +><i> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 09:57:03PM +0200, Olivier Méjean wrote: +</I>><i> > then French law is the law we have to consider for Mageia. Debian runs +</I>><i> > under SPI organization located in the state of New York, USA, thus is +</I>><i> > ruled by US Laws. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Since the only people who will have issue with this are the president ( aka +</I>><i> Anne ) and the people who distribute this ( ie mirrors admins ), I think +</I>><i> we should ask them and follow their opinions, and only theirs. Because +</I>><i> we can speak of "we have no problem", we will have nothing what ever we do, +</I>><i> because we are likely not liable. Anne and mirrors owners are. So their +</I>><i> words is what does count. +</I> +Seems sensible to ask the mirror owners. It is possible some of them have not +been aware of the problem at all, so I think we should make sure they +understand that Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, etc. also contain patented technologies +(to avoid the situation where they are willing to mirror Ubuntu/Debian/Arch +but not allow patented software in Mageia, just because the other +distributions didn't notify them of the issue; if they don't want to mirror +Mageia if it contained patent-encumbered software, they really shouldn't be +mirroring those other distributions either). + +-- +Anssi Hannula +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001223.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001225.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1217">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1217">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1217">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1217">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001218.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001218.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9f022d156 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001218.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010151337010.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001228.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001219.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010151337010.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 13:45:53 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001228.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001219.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1218">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1218">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1218">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1218">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, 15 Oct 2010, Anssi Hannula wrote: + +><i> Seems sensible to ask the mirror owners. It is possible some of them have not +</I>><i> been aware of the problem at all, so I think we should make sure they +</I>><i> understand that Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, etc. also contain patented technologies +</I>><i> (to avoid the situation where they are willing to mirror Ubuntu/Debian/Arch +</I>><i> but not allow patented software in Mageia, just because the other +</I>><i> distributions didn't notify them of the issue; if they don't want to mirror +</I>><i> Mageia if it contained patent-encumbered software, they really shouldn't be +</I>><i> mirroring those other distributions either). +</I> +While you are right that we should point out that Ubuntu/Debian/Arch +contain the same potentially patent-infringing (in a few countries) +software as Mageia IN CASE THEY OBJECT to this in Mageia, I don't see +why we should stirr up a hornets nest in the first place. + +The mirror maintainers are responsible adults, you don't need to point +out anything to them, it's their decision and their responsibility to +comply with local laws of their country. + +I assume none of us is a lawyer (especially not with expertise in the +laws of all countries), so giving legal advice to the mirror admins is +pointless and most likely counterproductive. + +Imagine how other distros will react if they find out that Mageia +induced some mirrors to drop their distros, now that would make Mageia +popular in the wider Linux community... + +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001228.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001219.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1218">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1218">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1218">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1218">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001219.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001219.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a743710fb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001219.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTik%3D-PFikcW6qafuSFwRMXeBZ0MpwchxTOJ07DaL%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001218.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001220.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTik%3D-PFikcW6qafuSFwRMXeBZ0MpwchxTOJ07DaL%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 14:11:30 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001218.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001220.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1219">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1219">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1219">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1219">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 13:45, Tux99 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tux99-mga at uridium.org</A>> wrote: +><i> I assume none of us is a lawyer (especially not with expertise in the +</I>><i> laws of all countries), so giving legal advice to the mirror admins is +</I>><i> pointless and most likely counterproductive. +</I> +Unless we set up a legal team partly for that. But that makes a +serious load of work to consider here. To consider nonetheless. + +><i> Imagine how other distros will react if they find out that Mageia +</I>><i> induced some mirrors to drop their distros, now that would make Mageia +</I>><i> popular in the wider Linux community... +</I> +Of course not an option... that's not even the topic... please. + +Romain +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001218.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001220.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1219">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1219">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1219">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1219">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001220.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001220.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..afbfab934 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001220.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTin8wJ1S3ZHxQbXk27fxxgkcyeM8%2BRQiHSEx%3DjPa%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001219.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001221.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>yvan munoz</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTin8wJ1S3ZHxQbXk27fxxgkcyeM8%2BRQiHSEx%3DjPa%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">mr.yvan.munoz at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 14:22:39 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001219.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001221.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1220">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1220">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1220">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1220">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello list :) + +I now it's impossible to stop discussion for me, so i could only post my +personnal point of view. + +First: +I am Libre software user. +I am pragmatic. + +Then : +Please not use any non-free (as libre) software into Mageia distribution or +repository. Never. +There is, however, a very strict frontier : we could only include +hardware imperative necessity, such as firmware for network cards. + +No nonfree drivers when free equivalent are possibles, no flash, no nonfree +browser, no patent-troll tech : anything but free. And only exception for +no-equivalent firmware hardware support. + +### + +Another point of view, on repo orga now : +This is not Europe of supporting U.S. patents. +But the U.S. repo sysadmin to be able to comply with law og their own +countries. + +I think all non-free could be supported directly by users and accessibles +through "users repo". Not in (only one please) Mageia Repo. And Users Repo +could contains drivers, patent-troll techno, flash, etc, in additon with +more classicals softwares into "users repo". + +benefits : +Free for all +Keep Mageia Free as Libre. +Dont block Mageia install due to firmware cause. Important to have +easy-as-possible hardware support. +Open second repo for users, and give reasons in donate non-free softwares to +users support. + + +Regards +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20101015/e2ce36cb/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001219.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001221.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1220">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1220">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1220">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1220">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001221.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001221.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3d5463b43 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001221.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010151426070.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001220.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001222.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010151426070.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 14:29:21 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001220.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001222.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1221">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1221">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1221">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1221">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, 15 Oct 2010, yvan munoz wrote: + +><i> I think all non-free could be supported directly by users and accessibles +</I>><i> through "users repo". Not in (only one please) Mageia Repo. And Users Repo +</I>><i> could contains drivers, patent-troll techno, flash, etc, in additon with +</I>><i> more classicals softwares into "users repo". +</I> +Mageia is a community distro which means made by users for users. +Therefore a separate 'user' repo makes no sense at all, all Mageia repos +are user repos. + +And if you are such a freedom advocate then you should respect +freedom OF CHOICE for other users too, you don't have to install the +non-libre software that might be in the repos or on the isos. + +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001220.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001222.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1221">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1221">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1221">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1221">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001222.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001222.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..47a0f2f3b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001222.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTik6aO2QfLuyJ3-qfPBE1Nn%3D-3jmF19FE%2B99ta%2BM%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001221.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001210.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>yvan munoz</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTik6aO2QfLuyJ3-qfPBE1Nn%3D-3jmF19FE%2B99ta%2BM%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">mr.yvan.munoz at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 14:31:09 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001221.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001210.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1222">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1222">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1222">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1222">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/10/15 Tux99 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tux99-mga at uridium.org</A>> + +><i> +</I>I agree. +it is a misuse of the word "user". +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20101015/6f4e6752/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001221.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001210.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1222">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1222">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1222">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1222">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001223.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001223.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5c8e443af --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001223.html @@ -0,0 +1,143 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinUGVbh7QiY1BxcqFg-UZ5HFZStFJ1ju39iiEst%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001216.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001217.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinUGVbh7QiY1BxcqFg-UZ5HFZStFJ1ju39iiEst%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 14:36:46 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001216.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001217.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1223">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1223">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1223">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1223">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:40, Tux99 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tux99-mga at uridium.org</A>> wrote: +><i> [...] +</I> +Ok. This is, again, going nowhere. We don't even follow who is trying +to make what point. + +><i> On Fri, 15 Oct 2010, Romain d'Alverny wrote: +</I>>><i> Who talks about marketing here? Please stay on topic. Misc is talking +</I>>><i> about official representatives, board members liability - not only in +</I>>><i> France, but abroad. We're not in Merovingian times where one was +</I>>><i> judged according to his original land's law. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Assuming that a board member get's arrested in the US because Mageia +</I> +Who talks about being arrested or "frightened"?... Being liable and +being arrested are two distinct things... + + +>><i> There is no guarantee that we won't setup affiliate not-for-profit +</I>>><i> orgs abroad. +</I>>><i> Etc. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If for this reason Mageia has to be a crippled mediocre product then all +</I>><i> these precautions were a wast of time and efforts too. +</I>><i> There is no point in making a grand, legally sound structure for a +</I>><i> useless product with a fading community. +</I> +... + +I don't understand your point, neither your attitude here... + +><i> A successfull Mageia would strive to take advantage of the countries +</I>><i> with the best laws for it's interest rather than plan according to the +</I>><i> lowest common denominator. +</I> +Who said that was the plan?... + +>><i> wouldn't have located the association in France. There are other +</I>>><i> places far more interesting in this regard. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And if you want Mageia to be really successful you should take advantage +</I>><i> of those places. +</I> +Yes, right. :-) You know better the picture/history we (founders) are +in. We're not going to incorporate right now at the other end of the +world. :-) + +>><i>  - what do we _want_ to have in software repositories and _why_? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Easy, we want the best distro possible, with the best possible out of +</I>><i> the box experience, +</I> +That is a very vague statement. "I want it all". However, we will get +to that in time, see my previous post (yesterday) about the goal(s) of +Mageia.org. + +>><i>  - what are legal constraints that we must deal with +</I>>><i> (building/packaging/distributing/using), and how? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> We should strive to take advantage of the best legal environment to make +</I>><i> our targets possible. +</I> +Sure. In a sustainable way. + +>><i>  - how can we make this a predictable process for future situations? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No one can predict the future, laws change all the time so the only way +</I>><i> is to base ourselves on current valid laws and keep frexible to move to +</I>><i> a better legal environment if necessary. +</I> +This was not relative to laws only, but to the project mission first. + +><i> Opportunities not fear should be the key word here. +</I> +Who speaks about fear? we're speaking about finding a policy for the +project here. + +And I believe we are all able to _discuss_ this calmly without being +offensive... Again, this conversation is going nowhere. + +Please, guys, post a _proposal_ for comments somewhere in a fixed +format (blog, wiki page, anything) before proposing it for comment in +a mail discussion. Or... make sure to frame the conversation, in +topic, in time and in language. + +Cheers, + +Romain +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001216.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001217.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1223">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1223">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1223">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1223">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001224.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001224.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..80e33f86a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001224.html @@ -0,0 +1,228 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201010151242.04108.bgmilne%40multilinks.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001213.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Buchan Milne</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201010151242.04108.bgmilne%40multilinks.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">bgmilne at multilinks.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 13:42:03 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001213.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1224">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1224">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1224">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1224">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Friday, 15 October 2010 03:48:56 Fernando Parra wrote: +><i> Hi everybody. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I feel that the concept of a new way, as it exist into my mind is not +</I>><i> completely understood. Let me try to re-explain again. Please be patient +</I>><i> and excuses any mistake with my English (I'm totally out of practice): +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm talking about to liberate to novice/novel/without experience user, +</I>><i> about concepts like backports, but I'm not talking about +</I>><i> close/disappear/eliminate/forgot backports. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Why? because a big share of them will arrive from a very different +</I>><i> environment (especially windows), and as you now, in there those concepts +</I>><i> are not only estrange, they simply don't exists. When a Windows user +</I>><i> wants/needs to update a program, as much the only thing that he/she must +</I>><i> do is unninstall the old/previous version and then install the new one. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What programs? Following the same idea, about these kind of users, we +</I>><i> should ask: what programs they usually upgrade? The answer could be found +</I>><i> asking to the user's themselves, but certainly could be another ways. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Why not all backports? Reason 1: Because a lot of them don't care about the +</I>><i> new version of CUPS (in example) or the new version of Maxima (I'm sure +</I>><i> there are a lot clearly examples). Reason 2: Because there are packages +</I>><i> that may causes some incidents after upgrade them. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> How we can solve this situation? Offering a default automatic upgrade for a +</I>><i> small group of packages, especially when they change in an important way, +</I>><i> in example Firefox 3.6x 3.6x+ or to 4.x +</I>><i> +</I>><i> With this in mind: +</I>><i> > What aspects of the Mandriva backports solution are not satisfactory? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > -The fact that not everything is available as a backport? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Not all are in backports, more these users don't want/understand a big +</I>><i> share of them +</I> +So, we must "dumb down" everything, and not provide openldap backports for +people running servers who want a convenient way to run the software version +that will allow them to file bugs upstream (OpenLDAP team doesn't respond to +bugs filed on non-current releases)? + +><i> > -That users don't know how to request a backport? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That is true, more, they don't want to learn about that, they only want a +</I>><i> new version of their favourite program. +</I> +What do we do in the case where a new version of some software is available, +and has been sent to cooker? How do we decide whether it should go to +backports or not? And for which releases? + +(FYI, for Mandriva users can typically request backports in bugzilla or on +IRC, but we may need better means). + +><i> > -That too many backports are available? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is matter of who are revising backports, for novice? Yes there are to +</I>><i> many. For the geek or the expert? Maybe never there will enough of them. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > -That all users don't get them by default? +</I>><i> > -That users doing network installs by default don't get the backport on +</I>><i> > initial installation? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No, they are not get them if we will use a potentially problematic +</I>><i> repository. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > -That users aren't aware of backports? +</I>><i> > -Something else? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Panic? Fear? Baal, Luzbel and other demons in their minds? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Technically speaking? +</I>><i> > Less than 'urpmi --searchmedia Backports chromium' ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If I was a novice my answer will be: What hell is that? +</I> +This was a response to 'users must do less', not 'it must be very easy'. At +present, users need to do just one thing. We can fix the ease of doing that +one thing, if we understand the problem correctly. + +I note you chose to leave out: + +><i> > Or, should it be more obvious in rpmdrake or similar? How about +</I>><i> > commenting on my proposal for UI change in rpmdrake making backports +</I>><i> > more obvious? +</I> +The proposal I refer to is: +" +Now, maybe the user interface needs to be improved. For example, maybe there +should be no dropdown box, but instead when searching for a package by name, +it should show you all the versions: + +============================================================================ +Find: | digikam | In: ->Graphical applications |By: ->Package Name +---------------------------------------------------------------------------- +Package| |Status | Action ++digikam |Security update recommended |Update | +- 1.3.0-1mdv |Installed |Uninstall | +- 1.3.0-1.1mdv |Security Update |Update | +- 1.4.0-4mdv |Unsupported upgrade (backport) |Upgrade | + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------- +digikam - A KDE ........ + +============================================================================= +" + +Further, we could have some settings regarding what the user's preference is, +and possibly even per-package. For example, maybe the user would not like only +updates by default, except for chromium and pidgin where they want backports. +Or, maybe another user wants all backports, except OpenOffice.org, where they +just want updates. + +><i> > Again, before we can decide what *more* we should do (what significant +</I>><i> > resources we need to commit), maybe we should first understand why the +</I>><i> > existing features (which have significant effort behind them) are not +</I>><i> > resulting in user satisfaction. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> More and more reasons to prepare very carefully our offer. All we here +</I>><i> appreciate those efforts and there are no way to send them to trash +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Personally I think a poll without educating everyone about what exactly +</I>><i> > each choice would mean is useless. We first need to elaborate detailed +</I>><i> > alternatives before anyone can make an informed choice. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> IMHO, a democracy without education is not democracy, is populism. I agree +</I>><i> at all, we need first elaborate a well structured alternatives and then, +</I>><i> explicitly after inform and educate our community we can run a poll, or +</I>><i> prepare a council, or any other appropriated way. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > backports should be supported for security patches and bug fixes just +</I>><i> > like the main packages (if not instead of the main packages). +</I>><i> > Of course the security patch could be simply provided by backporting a +</I>><i> > newer version of the package, no need to make patches for each version. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That is essential, any upgrade must be supported (other valid reason for an +</I>><i> small group of packages). +</I> +Note that this can be difficult. For example, if (say) 2010.1 has shipped with +samba 3.5.3, and let's say we shipped samba 3.5.5 in backports, now a security +update is required, updates provides 3.5.3-1.1mdv with a patch, but 3.5.6 +doesn't build without substantial work. + +Now, in order to provide a rapid update, the maintainer now needs to either: +-apply the patch to 3.5.5 and ship this to cooker and backports, and later +work on 3.5.6 for cooker, and then send it to backports again +-work on 3.5.6 until it works, and leave users without a security update for a +few days + +These decisions have quite an impact on the cost of supporting the distro ... + +><i> > What I mean is basically when new updates get presented (which would +</I>><i> > include new backports) the user could untick specific packages (as is +</I>><i> > possible now) but also have a second tick-box to store the choice +</I>><i> > permanently in the skip.list. +</I>><i> > This would give the user more choice of which packages he wants to always +</I>><i> > update to the newest version and wich ones he/she prefers to keep frozen +</I>><i> > at the same version. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Please try to explain that to my grandma, or maybe you could be lucky with +</I>><i> some of my students. +</I> +How easy this is to use depends on the UI. For example, the updates window +could be reduced to be "Apply all recommended updates", "Apply only security +updates", and "Advanced", which would show the list of packages to update (and +provide options similar to the above, but slightly different). Your grandma +shouldn't click the "Advanced" button. + +Regards, +Buchan +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001213.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1224">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1224">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1224">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1224">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001225.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001225.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c35292293 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001225.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinZKJsQ4idUH7oza5ZBP7KJ8skzWa4eTqkyMCqH%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001217.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001226.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinZKJsQ4idUH7oza5ZBP7KJ8skzWa4eTqkyMCqH%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 13:42:58 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001217.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001226.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1225">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1225">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1225">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1225">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/10/15 Anssi Hannula <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">anssi.hannula at iki.fi</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> Seems sensible to ask the mirror owners. It is possible some of them have not +</I>><i> been aware of the problem at all, so I think we should make sure they +</I>><i> understand that Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, etc. also contain patented technologies +</I>><i> (to avoid the situation where they are willing to mirror Ubuntu/Debian/Arch +</I>><i> but not allow patented software in Mageia, just because the other +</I>><i> distributions didn't notify them of the issue; if they don't want to mirror +</I>><i> Mageia if it contained patent-encumbered software, they really shouldn't be +</I>><i> mirroring those other distributions either). +</I> +As mirror maintainer/owner of Mandriva Linux and future Mageia +(ftp.mandrivauser.de) I discussed this problem with my friends and we +decided not to mirror PLF although a German university does +(ftp.gwdg.de). The point is that our mirror is hosted on a private +server where just one person is liable (me, unfortunately). But we +also decided to mirror the non-free branch of Mandriva Linux. There is +non-free and there is patented and/or legally unclear software - we +will definitely stay away from the latter when mirroring Mageia. +Making a difference between such software on the parent mirror will +make it easy for mirrors such as ours. Distributing such software in +the same branches as "normal" software will make it impossible to +mirror Mageia. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001217.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001226.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1225">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1225">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1225">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1225">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001226.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001226.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..96a9d9598 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001226.html @@ -0,0 +1,88 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010151621190.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001225.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001227.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1010151621190.18238-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 16:27:51 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001225.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001227.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1226">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1226">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1226">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1226">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, 15 Oct 2010, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: + +><i> As mirror maintainer/owner of Mandriva Linux and future Mageia +</I>><i> (ftp.mandrivauser.de) I discussed this problem with my friends and we +</I>><i> decided not to mirror PLF although a German university does +</I>><i> (ftp.gwdg.de). The point is that our mirror is hosted on a private +</I>><i> server where just one person is liable (me, unfortunately). But we +</I>><i> also decided to mirror the non-free branch of Mandriva Linux. There is +</I>><i> non-free and there is patented and/or legally unclear software - we +</I>><i> will definitely stay away from the latter when mirroring Mageia. +</I>><i> Making a difference between such software on the parent mirror will +</I>><i> make it easy for mirrors such as ours. Distributing such software in +</I>><i> the same branches as "normal" software will make it impossible to +</I>><i> mirror Mageia. +</I> +wobo, I perfectly understand your reasons especially since as you say +the server is privately owned by you, not an association or a company. + +OTOH I think your worry is unfounded, the patent issues are mostly US +issues, not so much European issues. + +Also separating out packages will be very difficult (I would say +impossible) since not even lawyers can know for sure which software has +patent issues and which one not. +It's not just a problem with codecs, ANY software could have patent +issues (in the US at least). + +For example Microsoft is claiming that the Linux kernel is in breach of +several patents help by Microsoft. + +Do you want to not mirror the kernel? + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001225.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001227.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1226">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1226">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1226">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1226">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001227.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001227.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ea627da7a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001227.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3C4CB87285.4040407%40roadrunner.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001226.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001228.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Frank Griffin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3C4CB87285.4040407%40roadrunner.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">ftg at roadrunner.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 17:25:57 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001226.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001228.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1227">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1227">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1227">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1227">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Tux99 wrote: +><i> On Fri, 15 Oct 2010, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> As mirror maintainer/owner of Mandriva Linux and future Mageia +</I>>><i> (ftp.mandrivauser.de) I discussed this problem with my friends and we +</I>>><i> decided not to mirror PLF although a German university does +</I>>><i> (ftp.gwdg.de). The point is that our mirror is hosted on a private +</I>>><i> server where just one person is liable (me, unfortunately). But we +</I>>><i> also decided to mirror the non-free branch of Mandriva Linux. There is +</I>>><i> non-free and there is patented and/or legally unclear software - we +</I>>><i> will definitely stay away from the latter when mirroring Mageia. +</I>>><i> Making a difference between such software on the parent mirror will +</I>>><i> make it easy for mirrors such as ours. Distributing such software in +</I>>><i> the same branches as "normal" software will make it impossible to +</I>>><i> mirror Mageia. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> wobo, I perfectly understand your reasons +</I> +IANAL, but as far as I know U.S. law exempts hosting sites from +liability for things coming from the outside, provided they take the +offending material down if the content owner requests it. + +Now, there are some differences between that situation and this one. + +For one thing, a mirror maintainer chooses what to mirror. In the case +of choosing PLF, whose nature is no secret, I don't think a mirror maint +could plead ignorance. On the other hand, this could work for +repositories that don't explicitly claim to be illegal, provided the +mirror maint notifies Mageia so that the offending package can be moved +to another repository if the claim is valid. + +For another, this is usually applied to copyrighted content, not +software, although I seem to remember early requests of this type for +dvdcss to be taken down. + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001226.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001228.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1227">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1227">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1227">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1227">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001228.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001228.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ede7914d3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001228.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9a8ld%24lvi%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001227.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001218.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%20firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3Ci9a8ld%24lvi%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 21:05:16 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001227.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001218.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1228">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1228">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1228">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1228">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-10-15 07:42, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit : +><i> 2010/10/15 Anssi Hannula<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">anssi.hannula at iki.fi</A>>: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Seems sensible to ask the mirror owners. It is possible some of them have not +</I>>><i> been aware of the problem at all, so I think we should make sure they +</I>>><i> understand that Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, etc. also contain patented technologies +</I>>><i> (to avoid the situation where they are willing to mirror Ubuntu/Debian/Arch +</I>>><i> but not allow patented software in Mageia, just because the other +</I>>><i> distributions didn't notify them of the issue; if they don't want to mirror +</I>>><i> Mageia if it contained patent-encumbered software, they really shouldn't be +</I>>><i> mirroring those other distributions either). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As mirror maintainer/owner of Mandriva Linux and future Mageia +</I>><i> (ftp.mandrivauser.de) I discussed this problem with my friends and we +</I>><i> decided not to mirror PLF although a German university does +</I>><i> (ftp.gwdg.de). The point is that our mirror is hosted on a private +</I>><i> server where just one person is liable (me, unfortunately). But we +</I>><i> also decided to mirror the non-free branch of Mandriva Linux. There is +</I>><i> non-free and there is patented and/or legally unclear software - we +</I>><i> will definitely stay away from the latter when mirroring Mageia. +</I>><i> Making a difference between such software on the parent mirror will +</I>><i> make it easy for mirrors such as ours. Distributing such software in +</I>><i> the same branches as "normal" software will make it impossible to +</I>><i> mirror Mageia. +</I>><i> +</I> +Thanks for the post Wobo. You are the first response to this discussion +that has shown a "real life / concrete" example of the concern that one +has to consider when mirroring packages. + +I really think that this thread is leading nowhere and it obviously +needs to be discussed with the main devs and Mageia core group along +with individuals knowledgeable in international law, if we want to set +things straight right from the start. + +Marc + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001227.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001218.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1228">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1228">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1228">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1228">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..163f69414 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,147 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 15 October 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>15 October 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 01:18:37 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:16 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 20<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001210.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1210"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001225.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1225"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001227.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1227"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001217.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1217"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001224.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1224"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001214.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1214"> </A> +<I>Olivier Méjean +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001212.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1212"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001211.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1211"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001228.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1228"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001213.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1213"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001216.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1216"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001218.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1218"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001221.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1221"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001226.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1226"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001215.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1215"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001219.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1219"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001223.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1223"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001220.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1220"> </A> +<I>yvan munoz +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001222.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1222"> </A> +<I>yvan munoz +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001209.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1209"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:16 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:36 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..625add810 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,147 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 15 October 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>15 October 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 01:18:37 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:16 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 20<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001209.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1209"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001210.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1210"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001211.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1211"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001212.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1212"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001213.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1213"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001214.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1214"> </A> +<I>Olivier Méjean +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001215.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1215"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001216.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1216"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001217.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1217"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001224.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1224"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001225.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1225"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001218.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1218"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001219.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1219"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001220.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1220"> </A> +<I>yvan munoz +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001221.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1221"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001222.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1222"> </A> +<I>yvan munoz +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001223.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1223"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001226.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1226"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001227.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1227"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001228.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1228"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:16 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:36 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f1bb151a1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,147 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 15 October 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>15 October 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 01:18:37 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:16 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 20<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001212.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1212"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001213.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1213"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001224.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1224"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001214.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1214"> </A> +<I>Olivier Méjean +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001217.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1217"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001209.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1209"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001210.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1210"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001211.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1211"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001215.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1215"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001216.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1216"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001225.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1225"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001218.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1218"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001219.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1219"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001220.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1220"> </A> +<I>yvan munoz +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001221.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1221"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001222.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1222"> </A> +<I>yvan munoz +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001223.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1223"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001226.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1226"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001227.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1227"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001228.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1228"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:16 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:36 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a82696e0a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,183 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 15 October 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>15 October 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 01:18:37 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:16 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 20<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01287098317- --> +<LI><A HREF="001209.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1209"> </A> +<I>Michael scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287098317-01287121414- --> +<LI><A HREF="001214.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1214"> </A> +<I>Olivier Méjean +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01287098317-01287121414-01287132256- --> +<LI><A HREF="001215.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1215"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01287098317-01287121414-01287132256-01287135649- --> +<LI><A HREF="001216.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1216"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<!--3 01287098317-01287121414-01287132256-01287135649-01287146206- --> +<LI><A HREF="001223.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1223"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 01287098317-01287142235- --> +<LI><A HREF="001217.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1217"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01287098317-01287142235-01287142978- --> +<LI><A HREF="001225.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1225"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01287098317-01287142235-01287142978-01287152871- --> +<LI><A HREF="001226.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1226"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<!--3 01287098317-01287142235-01287142978-01287152871-01287156357- --> +<LI><A HREF="001227.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1227"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<!--3 01287098317-01287142235-01287142978-01287169516- --> +<LI><A HREF="001228.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1228"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +</UL> +<!--2 01287098317-01287142235-01287143153- --> +<LI><A HREF="001218.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1218"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01287098317-01287142235-01287143153-01287144690- --> +<LI><A HREF="001219.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1219"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<!--3 01287098317-01287142235-01287143153-01287145359- --> +<LI><A HREF="001220.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1220"> </A> +<I>yvan munoz +</I> + +<!--3 01287098317-01287142235-01287143153-01287145359-01287145761- --> +<LI><A HREF="001221.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1221"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<!--3 01287098317-01287142235-01287143153-01287145359-01287145761-01287145869- --> +<LI><A HREF="001222.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1222"> </A> +<I>yvan munoz +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01287107756- --> +<LI><A HREF="001210.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1210"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287107756-01287108705- --> +<LI><A HREF="001211.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A><A NAME="1211"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +</UL> +<!--0 01287110936- --> +<LI><A HREF="001212.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1212"> </A> +<I>Fernando Parra +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01287110936-01287117133- --> +<LI><A HREF="001213.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1213"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<!--1 01287110936-01287142923- --> +<LI><A HREF="001224.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A><A NAME="1224"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:16 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Oct 15 21:05:36 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |