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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001214.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001214.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..adc16bae7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101015/001214.html @@ -0,0 +1,222 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%09firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3C201010150743.34299.omejean%40yahoo.fr%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001209.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001215.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc</H1> + <B>Olivier Méjean</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20repository%20sections%2C%20licenses%2C%20restrictions%2C%0A%09firmware%20etc&In-Reply-To=%3C201010150743.34299.omejean%40yahoo.fr%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc">omejean at yahoo.fr + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Oct 15 07:43:34 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001209.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001215.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1214">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1214">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1214">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1214">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le vendredi 15 octobre 2010 01:18:37, Michael scherer a écrit : +><i> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 09:57:03PM +0200, Olivier Méjean wrote: +</I>><i> > Le jeudi 14 octobre 2010 20:55:01, Anssi Hannula a écrit : +</I>><i> > > On Wednesday 13 October 2010 20:22:01 Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> > > > Le mardi 12 octobre 2010 à 18:02 +0300, Anssi Hannula a écrit : +</I>><i> > > > > Hi all! +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Do people have any thoughts on what kind of repository/media +</I>><i> > > > > sectioning we should use on Mageia, and what should those sections +</I>><i> > > > > contain? +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Note that I won't talk about backports / private repositories in +</I>><i> > > > > this post, only about the basic sectioning and packages in those. +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Some points to consider (I've written my opinion in ones where I +</I>><i> > > > > have one): +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > == Do we want a separated core repository? +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > No separated core: Fedora, Debian, Opensuse +</I>><i> > > > > Separated core: Mandriva (main), Ubuntu (main), Arch (Core) +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > How do we decide what would be in core ? +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > AFAICS the only reasonable reason would be to separate 'supported' and +</I>><i> > > 'unsupported' packages (whatever the definition we will choose for +</I>><i> > > those). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > What is a supported package or what is an unsupported package ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > For Mandriva it was clear, packages on which Mandriva provides support is +</I>><i> > in main, if not it's in contrib. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No, since there was unsupported packages in main ( think stuff like +</I>><i> ld.so1.2 ), and support could perfectly answer to questions depending on +</I>><i> the contract, even on packages in contribs. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There is also weird stuff like php-yp ( in contrib ), who was built from +</I>><i> the same source than others php packages, who was thus in main and +</I>><i> supported. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No to mention that there was no process for deciding what goes in main, +</I>><i> except that it was required by something else in main. There is also +</I>><i> issues of old packages that were never moved out of main, despites not +</I>><i> really supported. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So no, it was not clear. +</I> +<A HREF="http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Policies/SoftwareMedia">http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Policies/SoftwareMedia</A> +It seems clear that distinction of main and contrib was just related to +Mandriva wishes. + +><i> +</I>><i> > > > > == What about patents? +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Almost no software with patents: Fedora, Opensuse +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > - Essentially no media codecs except theora/vorbis/ogg/vp8 etc. +</I>><i> > > > > - Strange exception: libXft, Cairo and Qt4 are shipped with LCD +</I>><i> > > > > filtering +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > support enabled, even if it is disabled in freetype +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > No software with enforced patents: Debian +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > - not included (at least): x264 (encoder), lame mp3 (encoder) +</I>><i> > > > > - included (at least): MPEG/x decoders, H.264 decoders, MP3 +</I>><i> > > > > decoders, +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > AAC decoders, AMR decoders, DTS decoders, AC3 decoders, +</I>><i> > > > > WMV/WMA decoders, realvideo decoders, etc +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Some software covered by patents not included: Mandriva +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > - see below for more information +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > All software covered by patents allowed: Arch, Ubuntu +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > IMO we should alter our policy to match either Fedora, Debian or +</I>><i> > > > > Ubuntu.. The Mandriva policy makes no sense (for example, no AAC +</I>><i> > > > > decoder but yes for H.264 decoder and MPEG-4 encoder?). +</I>><i> > > > > I'm really not sure which way we should go, though. WDYT? +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > I would go the Debian way. +</I>><i> > > > Ubuntu and Fedora are tied to companies, and Debian is not, so their +</I>><i> > > > policies are likely more adapted to our own model. +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > Debian way seems to be more pragmatic that Ubuntu/Fedora on that +</I>><i> > > > matter. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Indeed, Debian's situation seems closer to ours. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > However, a bit more investigation shows that the Debian policy "no +</I>><i> > > enforced patents" is not really a written policy and what it means in +</I>><i> > > practice is not 100% clear. A clarification request [1] has gone +</I>><i> > > unanswered for 1.5 years, and "missing" packages x264,lame,xvidcore +</I>><i> > > are sitting in the NEW queue [2] without having been accepted or +</I>><i> > > rejected yet (it has "only" been 2.5 months, though). +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > BTW, other related 'missing' packages in debian are "mjpegtools", +</I>><i> > > "faac", "transcode", but the first two are missing due to license +</I>><i> > > reasons instead of patent issues: +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > mjpegtools contains source files that are "All Rights Reserved" by +</I>><i> > > "MPEG/audio software simulation group" (Ubuntu has the package in +</I>><i> > > multiverse, Mandriva in main) +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > faac contains a limitation that it is not allowed to be used in +</I>><i> > > software not conforming to MPEG-2/MPEG-4 Audio standards, which makes +</I>><i> > > it non-opensource (Ubuntu has the package in multiverse, Mandriva +</I>><i> > > doesn't have it). +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > transcode is missing, but there's been no recent activity on it that +</I>><i> > > would explain why it isn't there (IIRC its supported codecs are a +</I>><i> > > subset of ffmpeg ones, and ffmpeg is in Debian). +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > [1] <A HREF="http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=522373">http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=522373</A> +</I>><i> > > (note that debian had some encoders disabled in ffmpeg at the time of +</I>><i> > > the above report; those have since been enabled) +</I>><i> > > [2] <A HREF="http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html">http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html</A> +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Questions about patents is related to which law applies to Mageia. No +</I>><i> > answers to which law then no clear policy can be applied. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > For me, since Mageia.org will lead the project (and will own Mageia +</I>><i> > trademarks) is located in France, since build system of Mageia will be in +</I>><i> > France +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There is no guarantee that the BS will always be located in France. So I +</I>><i> think you should not make assumptions like this. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > then French law is the law we have to consider for Mageia. Debian runs +</I>><i> > under SPI organization located in the state of New York, USA, thus is +</I>><i> > ruled by US Laws. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Since the only people who will have issue with this are the president ( aka +</I>><i> Anne ) and the people who distribute this ( ie mirrors admins ), I think +</I>><i> we should ask them and follow their opinions, and only theirs. Because +</I>><i> we can speak of "we have no problem", we will have nothing what ever we do, +</I>><i> because we are likely not liable. Anne and mirrors owners are. So their +</I>><i> words is what does count. +</I> +So is Mageia a community project or not ? +Then when we will talk about Marketing stuff we will follow only marketing +group opinions ? + +Of course their views count, but there is a difference between the +responsability of Mageia association that must comply with French Laws and +mirrors admins that must comply with the laws of the country the mirror is +located. OpenBSD project is located in Canada to avoid some US law about +restriction for export (meanwhile for example Red Hat has a policy for its +employees not to answer by IRC to demand from an user located in countries +that are under export restriction due to US law) + +If the structure of the repos need to be adapted so one part can be not +mirrored in certain countries that could be a solution (let's call it export- +restriction) + +I do quite accept that Fedora, OpenSuse, Debian comply with US Law since there +are located in the USA, thus accepting their policy about software patents. I +would like that the same occurs for Mageia that is located in France. + +Olivier +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001209.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001215.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia repository sections, licenses, restrictions, firmware etc +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1214">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1214">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1214">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1214">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |