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<H1>[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating</H1>
<B>Thomas Spuhler</B>
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TITLE="[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating">thomas at btspuhler.com
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<I>Sat Apr 7 18:18:43 CEST 2012</I>
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<PRE>On Saturday, April 07, 2012 08:38:39 AM Guillaume Rousse wrote:
><i> If thos of you lucky enough to have missed the beginning of the story,
</I>><i> here are the importants parts:
</I>><i> - first round: bug #4357, still marked as release blocker (despite a bit
</I>><i> excessive IMHO)
</I>><i> - second round: discussion on -dev, archived here:
</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2012-March/013342.html">https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2012-March/013342.html</A>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> The whole issue turns around the unfortunate consequence of adding new
</I>><i> dependencies, for various reasons, between packages and in installer:
</I>><i> bloated minimal installation. In this case, this is about a specific
</I>><i> *soft* dependency from gnome-keyring to seahorse, which has painful
</I>><i> consequences, as outline by TV in comment #5 of the original report.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Suggestion sofar for this initial problem have been suggested:
</I>><i> 1) move the gnome-keyring -> seahorse soft dependency either in
</I>><i> task-gnome, or task-gnome-minimal
</I>><i> 2) turn the mandatory dependency between libgnome-keyring to
</I>><i> gnome-keyring into a soft dependency
</I>><i> 3) remove the dependency on a gnome component from the KDE category in
</I>><i> the installer
</I>><i>
</I>><i> But sofar, nothing was done AFAIK, the bug is still open.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> From my own personal and biased reading, solution #3, makes sense.
</I>><i> Actually, it would only adress a part of the problem, as installing the
</I>><i> distribution doesn't mandatorily means 'running the installer'. chroot
</I>><i> installation, for instance, or automated installations, are not affected
</I>><i> by rpmsrate, but still face side-effect of those nasty 'useful'
</I>><i> dependencies between packages. Of course, this only concern expert
</I>><i> users, who usually know about --no-suggest urpmi option.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Solution #1 would also make some sense for me. As pointed out by TV, you
</I>><i> don't mandatorily install gnome-keyring because you need it, but because
</I>><i> you don't have the choice, and something else introduced it without
</I>><i> asking you. That's a bit difficult to argue in this case that you may
</I>><i> need seahorse to manage your keys, merely because you problably never
</I>><i> intended to store keys anyway. So I'd also implement this solution,
</I>><i> despite once again, if you really care, you may use --no-suggest also.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Solution #2, tough, would introduce some precedent. AFAIK, all gnome
</I>><i> libs unfortunatly require their binaries to be installed alongside to be
</I>><i> used, for I can't remember technical reason. So, I'd rather reject it.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> To summarize it:
</I>><i> - has anyone any opposition to remove the totem-mozilla - KDE
</I>><i> relationship in the installer ?
</I>
I'd go for this.
><i> - Olav (or anyone else), do you have any objection to *also* move the
</I>><i> soft dependency from gnome-keyring to seahorse to either task-gnome or
</I>><i> task-gnome-minimal ?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> More generally, we still lack a clear view of interactions between
</I>><i> choice hardcoded in installer rpmsrate, and two different kind of
</I>><i> dependencies between packages. And a general policy on this kind of
</I>><i> issues, aiming a correct balance between 'avoinding poor users the pain
</I>><i> of installing additional stuff themselves' and 'keeping system minimal'.
</I>
--
Best regards
Thomas Spuhler
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