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<H1>[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing</H1>
<B>Michael Scherer</B>
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TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing">misc at zarb.org
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<I>Mon Oct 31 18:17:15 CET 2011</I>
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<PRE>Le lundi 31 octobre 2011 à 19:06 +0200, Thomas Backlund a écrit :
><i> Michael Scherer skrev 31.10.2011 18:07:
</I>><i> > Le dimanche 30 octobre 2011 à 14:19 +0200, Thomas Backlund a écrit :
</I>><i> >>
</I>><i> >> I'm saying moving the stuff that is _really_ needed, not based on "udev
</I>><i> >> might run"...
</I>><i> >>
</I>><i> >> well, thinking some more on it I guess the real design flaw (not systemd
</I>><i> >> specific) is using all of udev in init. Init should not care about more
</I>><i> >> than getting disc access (and probably network for pxe boots)
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > That's the point that Lennart make, ie :
</I>><i> > "we used to have / to mount all partition and /usr to be mounted, now,
</I>><i> > we have initramfs to mount /, and then / to mount /usr, so it would be
</I>><i> > simpler to merge / and /usr"
</I>><i> >
</I>><i>
</I>><i> -ENOTCONVINCED
</I>><i>
</I>><i> So why merge / and /usr and kill a usable feature?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Just have initramfs mount / and /usr, no need to merge.
</I>
What is the usable feature ?
To be able to put some kind of quota on /usr ?
To be able to use a different fs for / and /usr ?
><i>
</I>><i> >> Then we wouldn't have to worry about "what udev might run" and could
</I>><i> >> keep a very clean /
</I>><i> >>
</I>><i> >>>> Well, it _is_ idiotic if it breaks working setups / possibilities to
</I>><i> >>>> finetune systems.
</I>><i> >>>
</I>><i> >>> It depends on your definition of "working". Sure if you specifically
</I>><i> >>> work around the know limitations of the design then you may get a
</I>><i> >>> bootable system, which you could classify as working, but I wouldn't say
</I>><i> >>> this is a robust base. Just a house of cards waiting for the next
</I>><i> >>> failure. I'd rather try and address the problems properly and be frank
</I>><i> >>> about it in the discussions.
</I>><i> >>>
</I>><i> >>
</I>><i> >> Well, it has worked 24/7 for servers for atleast last 15 years for
</I>><i> >> servers I maintain, so I'd say that is pretty robust.
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > That's also what people say about manually compiling software in
</I>><i> > solaris, and I think they are wrong, so that's not really a compeling
</I>><i> > argument to my eyes.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Yeah, well that's your opinion.
</I>
That's also yours, or you would be using solaris or slackware instead of
doing packages.
><i> > In fact "using packages prevent me from finetuning my software" is also
</I>><i> > a common and recuring theme from the same people ( well, slightly less
</I>><i> > recuring nowadays as I didn't meet people telling me so since gentoo and
</I>><i> > slackware usage slightly dropped ).
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > We have unix server since 1970, that doesn't mean the assumption that
</I>><i> > lead to some design decision are not open to be revisited.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> I dont mind people revisiting design decisions, but breaking working
</I>><i> setups sucks bigtime.
</I>
So basically, you want fix that just change nothing ?
><i> But I guess that's the development trend nowdays: "I cant be bothered to
</I>><i> fix things properly so I just call it "depreceated"... and go ahead
</I>><i> and break things just as I like"
</I>
Well, what do you propose to fix this properly ?
--
Michael Scherer
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