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<H1>[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing</H1>
<B>Thomas Backlund</B>
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TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing">tmb at mageia.org
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<I>Mon Oct 31 18:06:00 CET 2011</I>
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<PRE>Michael Scherer skrev 31.10.2011 18:07:
><i> Le dimanche 30 octobre 2011 à 14:19 +0200, Thomas Backlund a écrit :
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> I'm saying moving the stuff that is _really_ needed, not based on "udev
</I>>><i> might run"...
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> well, thinking some more on it I guess the real design flaw (not systemd
</I>>><i> specific) is using all of udev in init. Init should not care about more
</I>>><i> than getting disc access (and probably network for pxe boots)
</I>><i>
</I>><i> That's the point that Lennart make, ie :
</I>><i> "we used to have / to mount all partition and /usr to be mounted, now,
</I>><i> we have initramfs to mount /, and then / to mount /usr, so it would be
</I>><i> simpler to merge / and /usr"
</I>><i>
</I>
-ENOTCONVINCED
So why merge / and /usr and kill a usable feature?
Just have initramfs mount / and /usr, no need to merge.
><i> So that's simple. For stuff needed for initial boot, we have initrd, for
</I>><i> the rest, that's /usr/
</I>><i>
</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.spinics.net/lists/fedora-devel/msg158642.html">http://www.spinics.net/lists/fedora-devel/msg158642.html</A>
</I>><i>
</I>
-ESTILLNOTCONVINCED
>><i> Then we wouldn't have to worry about "what udev might run" and could
</I>>><i> keep a very clean /
</I>>><i>
</I>>>>><i> Well, it _is_ idiotic if it breaks working setups / possibilities to
</I>>>>><i> finetune systems.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> It depends on your definition of "working". Sure if you specifically
</I>>>><i> work around the know limitations of the design then you may get a
</I>>>><i> bootable system, which you could classify as working, but I wouldn't say
</I>>>><i> this is a robust base. Just a house of cards waiting for the next
</I>>>><i> failure. I'd rather try and address the problems properly and be frank
</I>>>><i> about it in the discussions.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> Well, it has worked 24/7 for servers for atleast last 15 years for
</I>>><i> servers I maintain, so I'd say that is pretty robust.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> That's also what people say about manually compiling software in
</I>><i> solaris, and I think they are wrong, so that's not really a compeling
</I>><i> argument to my eyes.
</I>
Yeah, well that's your opinion.
><i> In fact "using packages prevent me from finetuning my software" is also
</I>><i> a common and recuring theme from the same people ( well, slightly less
</I>><i> recuring nowadays as I didn't meet people telling me so since gentoo and
</I>><i> slackware usage slightly dropped ).
</I>><i>
</I>><i> We have unix server since 1970, that doesn't mean the assumption that
</I>><i> lead to some design decision are not open to be revisited.
</I>
I dont mind people revisiting design decisions, but breaking working
setups sucks bigtime.
But I guess that's the development trend nowdays: "I cant be bothered to
fix things properly so I just call it "depreceated"... and go ahead
and break things just as I like"
Oh well, I guess it's time to start blacklisting some rpms to ensure
things keep working as they are intended.
--
Thomas
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