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<H1>[Mageia-dev] backports</H1>
<B>Wolfgang Bornath</B>
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TITLE="[Mageia-dev] backports">molch.b at googlemail.com
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<I>Tue Jul 26 04:13:05 CEST 2011</I>
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<PRE>2011/7/26 Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>>:
><i> Le lundi 25 juillet 2011 à 21:47 +0200, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :
</I>>><i> Hi,
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> with regards to backports, users are complaining (they always do) that
</I>>><i> backports are taking too long.
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> on the one hand almost everyone seems to agree that backports should be
</I>>><i> "supported" in some way or another... however, noone seems to want to
</I>>><i> actuallty put in the time to finalize that. (or at least that's how I see it)
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> Since afair there is no real consensus, i suggest one of the following
</I>>><i> options, or possibly make this a vote, or have packaging team leaders (or
</I>>><i> board) decide this:
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> A. backports are maintainers responsibility
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> Every backport is tested or untested by maintainers discretion, (s)he decides
</I>>><i> how much testing it needs. We could still make a policy that there should be
</I>>><i> some tests.
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> B. well established support like updates
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> Similar QA like updates.
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> then there is the matter of submission:
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> A. We submit all backports from cauldron
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> B. like updates, there's a separate section for backports
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> C. backport submission is only allowed from the separate section, not from
</I>>><i> cauldron, if you want to backports from cauldron, you need to make the
</I>>><i> necessary steps yourself.
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> personally, i favor B & C; such as i think most of the people wanted; but if
</I>>><i> wanted, i can settle for A & B.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> If people did read what others said, they would have seen the obvious
</I>><i> problem :
</I>><i> Most people using backports, if not all, want to update just partially
</I>><i> their system ( ie, cherry picking ). See for example the mail of wobo
</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.mail-archive.com/mageia-dev@mageia.org/msg05794.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/mageia-dev@mageia.org/msg05794.html</A>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> We also do it on our infrastructure, and I know others admins that do it
</I>><i> too. See also others mails about the topic.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> So you are completely missing the real problems.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Yet, the solution is simple :
</I>><i> just say that backports are unsupported beyond "we offer them on the
</I>><i> mirrors", since nobody is willing to :
</I>><i>
</I>><i> 1) properly define supported ( yet everybody agree that it should be ).
</I>><i> To me supported mean :
</I>><i> - do not break important stuff of the distribution
</I>><i> - is supported in term of bugfixes by the distribution, in a timely
</I>><i> fashion
</I>><i> - supported by packagers
</I>><i>
</I>><i> 2) take the required measure to make that happen
</I>><i> and by "taking the measure", I mean "follow the limitations that would
</I>><i> enable proper support by my definition", which include among others :
</I>><i> - not break upgrade from the distro to a new version ( I already
</I>><i> explained that in the previous thread )
</I>><i> - not let users with outdated and vulnerable softwares without expecting
</I>><i> them to spend time finely tuning their system, and without putting
</I>><i> restriction on what they run ( such as forcing to run a specific applet
</I>><i> instead of having a smooth and integrated system like update )
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Current system of Mandriva, that is currently used, is geared toward
</I>><i> technical users only, and even them are left with a system in a
</I>><i> unsupported state ( ie, no update, no upgrade, and no assurance of
</I>><i> backport being properly tested ).
</I>><i>
</I>><i> We only solved the 3rd part for now, and I did proposal for the 2nd one
</I>><i> ( that were refused ).
</I>><i>
</I>>><i> If someone from -sysadmin can find the time to make the SVN repos for backports
</I>>><i> (and testing), that would be awesome, so we can actually do some testing for
</I>>><i> it and get this show on the road.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> I do not think we should deploy first and then think.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Either we declare backport unsupported, as in the current form, saying
</I>><i> otherwise would be lying, or we need clearly define what to expect ( and
</I>><i> that would be mostly "no support if you do this, and less support if you
</I>><i> do that" ) if people think unsupported is too strong. If we take this
</I>><i> way, we should make it clear to people using it.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Or we find a solution for the problems, without adding new ones.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> We worked too hard to have a good reputation of being a solid
</I>><i> distribution to ruin it. People can better cope with running old working
</I>><i> softwares ( with old being 3 or 4 months old ) than having crashes or
</I>><i> breakage later.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Especially since people have said "we do not want to reinstall on every
</I>><i> version", to me, that's clearly a demand from users to have a working
</I>><i> and smooth distribution upgrade process.
</I>
A very strong +1 for these 2 last paragraphs.
--
wobo
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