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<H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1>
<B>Thomas Backlund</B>
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TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">tmb at iki.fi
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<I>Sun Sep 26 15:01:25 CEST 2010</I>
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<PRE>Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 15:25:
><i> 2010/9/26 Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>>>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09:
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Not exactly. I'm not talking in just using -march=<something> but in
</I>><i> also pushing -mfpmath=sse -msse (and maybe -msse2) , which should be
</I>><i> much more than JUST 1-2% (1-2% is usually the benchmark
</I>><i> tolerance)...
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Well, here is a simple fact.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Yes, going for i686 + SSE2 would/could give some benefits,
</I>><i>
</I>><i> BUT
</I>><i>
</I>><i> It would close support for all theese:
</I>><i> - Intel i586 (all)
</I>><i>
</I>><i> - Intel Pentium Pro
</I>><i> - Intel Pentium II
</I>><i> - Intel Pentium III (Including some Pentium D)
</I>><i> - 32-bit AMD Athlon
</I>><i> - AMD Geode
</I>><i> - VIA C3
</I>><i> - Transmeta Crusoe
</I>><i>
</I>><i> So, thats not an option.
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> As I said I would see someone with such hardware, taking a CD of latest
</I>><i> MDV or cooker and try to install to do something and do a report.
</I>><i>
</I>
No point in trying the Cooker installer, as its currently broken.
Last time I tried (around 2010.0), I had no problem using the textmode
installer, wich is the most lightway method of installing we have.
><i> That reminds me also one suggestion. If someone has old hardware that
</I>><i> not in use anymore then could be donated to who is willing to test the
</I>><i> latest MDV|Mageia on it.
</I>
I will next week, as I still think we have some old i586 stored at work...
><i> It's not ironic (I think this is a
</I>><i> brainstorming), or I'm not kidding, but there could be an wiki hardware
</I>><i> section for that. For old hardware schools and institutes or
</I>><i> corporations have even to pay for dismantling: such hardware is usually
</I>><i> recycled for:
</I>><i>
</I>><i> a) extracting gold (there are nowadays new chemical processes that
</I>><i> found more affordable to extract gold from old PCs than from mines)
</I>><i> b) avoid pollutions with the lead, plastics they contain, if thrown
</I>><i> in the dumpster etc. (note there isn't just the CPU, but also CRT
</I>><i> monitors, printers, disks, etc.)
</I>><i>
</I>
c) keep donating the old harware to schools that take anything
they can get (so no dismantling).
><i> IIRC there is a EU law that if you buy a new PC the vendor is obeyed to
</I>><i> retire the old one and take care for the dismantling.
</I>><i>
</I>
Nope.
But there is a "recycling fee" in the price of new hw, so should be able
to get tid of old hw without any cost...
><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Now what about only i686 + SSE then?
</I>><i> It would still close support for all theese:
</I>><i> - Intel i586 (all)
</I>><i> - Some Intel Pentium D
</I>><i> - 32-bit AMD Athlon < XP/MP
</I>><i> - AMD Geode < NX
</I>><i> - VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra)
</I>><i> - Transmeta Crusoe
</I>><i>
</I>><i> So, still not an option.
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Now what about only i686 then?
</I>><i> It would still close support for all theese:
</I>><i> - Intel i586 (all)
</I>><i> - Some Intel Pentium D
</I>><i> - AMD Geode < NX
</I>><i> - VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra)
</I>><i> - Transmeta Crusoe
</I>><i>
</I>><i> So, still not an option.
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> And then to point out some other facts:
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Some of the benefits are already accounted for like you noted earlier:
</I>><i>
</I>><i> "Of course we shouldn't forget that the MDV had already a system for
</I>><i> providing optimized (look at /usr/lib/sse2 for instance) version of
</I>><i> libraries according to instruction set supported."
</I>><i>
</I>><i> And many applications capable of utilizing sse2 and other
</I>><i> instruction sets already have runtime detection support, so no
</I>><i> problem there.
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> So, where does that leave us?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Simple.
</I>><i> For 32bit installs, we will still support i586 as base.
</I>><i> For 64bit installs, it's simple as x86_64 is SSE2 by default.
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Now, _if_ the Mageia community gets enough developers to think of
</I>><i> _and_ support a "light netbook/legacy edition", then maybe we can
</I>><i> think of doing a i586/i686 split, but for now we will use i586 as base.
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> And many of the users wanting i686/sse2 already have hardware
</I>><i> capable of running x86_64, so that's what they should do, as there
</I>><i> is where the future is.
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> You are forgetting a midrange. Which is the midrange of not the latest
</I>><i> hardware but a memory around 2-4GB RAM. In that set a 32bit OS is still
</I>><i> consuming 30-50% fewer memory than 64bit.
</I>
I'm not forgetting them...
The current i586 base supports them
We also provide i686 kernels for them (desktop and server)
We have the "/usr/lib/sse2" and "apps with runtime detection support"
mentioned above.
><i> As I said to complete the circle it is needed to provide on a per
</I>><i> --target|dialect .rpm package for the kernel as well as for the glibc.
</I>><i> We have just to ensure the targets and fix compilation errors (though
</I>><i> that wouldn't resolve the problem of bloatware distro).
</I>><i>
</I>
--
Thomas
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