[Mageia-dev] Mageia 3 final set of isos

Tue Sep 25 08:15:18 CEST 2012

Thomas Backlund a écrit :
+> zezinho skrev 24.9.2012 12:52:
+>> Em 24-09-2012 09:55, Thomas Backlund escreveu:
+>>> Just because they have a 64bit hw, it does not mean they have accees
+>>> to cheap bw since that depends on where they live, what isp they have,
+>>> and so on...
+>>>
+>>
+>> Well, we can't keep the same service to users without keeping the same
+>> number of medias. And we NEED to reduce this number. So let's only
+>> decide if DVD keeps without nonfree or not. A poll? Both choices will
+>> keep the same numbers of medias.
+>>
+>
+> Sorry, my response got somewhat easy to misunderstand :)
+>
+> I meant it only as a response to the:
+> "it seems much less likely that 64-bit users will have the download
+> bandwidth problems of many 32-bit users."
+>
+>> As far as I can see, the easiest way to REDUCE media number is to switch
+>> Live medias from 700MB to at most DVD size :
+>>
+>> - It removes the different localized version, it is 40% medias less.
+>> - It does not remove ALL CD-R solutions, as we long as keep DualArch and
+>> boot.iso media.
+>> - It fits in most current USB keys (4GB is the lowest size I can see in
+>> shops).
+>>
+>
+> But many people have only 1-2GB sticks they could re-use ...
+> Not everyone can go out and buy new hw all the time...
+>
+> And the downside of getting bigger live images is that they
+> do get slower to boot...
+>
+>> Yes, it removes supports for some old hardware solutions, which I
+>> install often, but we can't keep testing 19 medias. We have still lack
+>> of QA people!
+>>
+>
+> Yes, I know... I've been doing ISO qa :)
+> we do need to reduce the media sets...
+> which is why I earlier in this thread suggested:
+> - 1 i586 GNOME english liveCD ("works everywhere")
+> - 1 i586 KDE english   liveCD ("works everywhere")
+
+We should consider the target users of live CDs.
+If it is only for the purpose of reviews (by english speakers), then 
+downloading 2 cds for testing in english only is fine.
+But if we want to introduce other users to mageia, many of whom would be 
+more confortable in another language, if they speak english at all, it 
+would be very useful to keep the other languages.
+At least for the i586 cds.
+(x64 users can always use the i586 cds if they don't want to use a dvd)
+
+>
+> - 1 i586 GNOME all-lang liveDVD
+> - 1 i586 KDE   all-lang liveDVD
+>
+> - 1 x86_64 GNOME all-lang liveDVD
+> - 1 x86_64 KDE   all-lang liveDVD
+
+Would producing live dvd instead of a non-live dvd take much more space 
+?  My impression is no.
+If that is correct, then we could make just one live all-desktop live 
+DVD for each of i586 and x86_64.
+Unless you think that the current non-live DVDs are missing important a 
+lot of important packages ?
+>
+> That would bring the live* media down from 16 -> 6
+
+Simply dropping 64-bit live cds, without any other changes, would reduce 
+isos from 19 -> 11.
+Without much loss, as those with 64-bit hw could always use 32-bit live 
+cds, and then install with 64-bit media.
+Although it would be better if a 64-bit live dvd were available.
+>
+>
+> And as data point...
+> With current mga2 livecd package config, building a liveDVD for one
+> arch/DE results in a liveDVD image with ~ 1GB image size
+>
+This is your area of expertise.  Is it possible to reduce this ?  By 
+maybe dynamically installing various packages needed ?
+What is the size needed for live cds ?  (Obviously less, since cds can't 
+be more than 750M.)
+>
+> If we squash more than one DE on the same liveDVD there will be some
+> questions:
+>
+> - Which DM will we use ? GDM? KDM? XDM? ...?
+>
+> Then we get the complaints:
+> - "why should I need to download KDE stuff when I want GNOME"?
+> - "why should I need to download  GNOME stuff when I want KDE"?
+> - "why ..."
+
+So how does that differ from the current dvds ?
+Isn't the idea of live isos to test and explore mageia ?
+A live dvd would make it easier for users to look at various desktops 
+available.
+Once one knows what one wants, a live iso isn't needed any more, 
+particularly since running a live iso is necessarily much slower than 
+running an installed system.
+As well, even once one knows the desktop prefered, prefered packages 
+don't necessarily belong to that particular desktop.
+
+>
+> and the technical side:
+> - stuffing more than one DE on liveDVDs means altering build process,
+>    also giving more problem for little if any gain....
+> - every DE on liveDVDs still need to be validated, so no less testing/QA
+> - it means testing G/K/XDM starting GNOME/KDE/... so no less testing/QA
+> - ...
+
+The same testing, but less downloading for testers.
+>
+> --
+>
+> Thomas
+>
+>
+
+-- 
+André
+