[Mageia-dev] Mageia 3 final set of isos

Tue Sep 25 07:54:33 CEST 2012

Op dinsdag 25 september 2012 01:21:05 schreef andre999:
+> Thomas Backlund a écrit :
+> > andre999 skrev 24.9.2012 09:57:
+> >> Anne Nicolas a écrit :
+> >>> Hi there
+> >>> 
+> >>> So here is the discussion about what isos we should keep or have for
+> >>> final release. We had several (many!) proposals on that topics and we
+> >>> need to take some decisions.
+> >>> 
+> >>> Here are some prerequisites I can see for what I can read in comments
+> >>> and review about Mageia on the web.
+> >>> 
+> >>> - provide a full open source software version
+> >>> - provide CD iso(s) so that it can be quick to download (people having
+> >>> low band-width or paying depending how much they use it)
+> >>> - provide live version(s)
+> >>> - decrease isos number. QA is just a hell on the set we had for Mageia 2
+> >>> - provide localization as large as possible
+> >>> - provide isos including major drivers including proprietary one to make
+> >>> it easier to install and configure
+> >> 
+> >> ...
+> >> 
+> >>> Please add all explanations to your proposal.
+> >>> 
+> >>> Let say we take one week on this so until 26/09 then we will make a
+> >>> final proposal
+> >>> 
+> >>> Cheers
+> >> 
+> >> My suggestions :
+> >> *Non-live isos*
+> >> 1 dual cd with proprietory firmware/drivers
+> >> -- based on comments by Alien and others
+> >> 
+> >> 1 dvd 32-bit with proprietory firmware/drivers
+> > 
+> > you do realize that this is a no-go as we already have problem fitting
+> > even LXDE on dual isos (as you only have ~350M / arch for rpms and
+> > installer, so trying to load a lot of extra fw and drivers on wont work.
+
+iinm the dual-arch CD just needs a small few nonfree things, like hardware 
+raid cards and a few network firmwares. but then the rescue also needs ip (for 
+vlan) and brctl (for bridging)... (in all actuallity, i'm prepared here to 
+drop all of small parts of LXDE and/or other graphic stuff).
+
+perhaps if we can unlink a few more cycles, we get enough free space...
+
+
+> > And yes, we already hardlink noarch packages
+> 
+> For the dual cd I was just going on comments by others, but I can
+> understand the space problem.  I wasn't anticipating multiple desktops
+> for that iso.  Whatever works for those who use it, and those who create
+> it, is fine by me.
+> 
+> It has occured to me that maybe it would be better to have 2 cds, one
+> each for 32-bit and 64-bit.  That would make it a lot easier to find
+> enough space, and maybe even make it simpler to create ?  It would add
+> another cd, but maybe not increase the workload.
+> Testing should be about the same.
+> (And carrying 2 cds in a pocket instead of one shouldn't be a problem.)
+> 
+> As for the 32-bit dvd with proprietory firmware and drivers where
+> reliable free aren't available, I think that that is important.
+> 
+> >> -- we could ask at the beginning something like
+> >> "This disc can install proprietory firmware or drivers needed by your
+> >> hardware.  Do you want to :
+> >> 1) Install such software automatically,
+> >> 2) Ask for each such software, or
+> >> 3) Never install such software."
+> >> 
+> >> That way users can accept or avoid such software as they wish.
+> >> At the same time, users will never be stuck.  This will be particularly
+> >> useful for new users, especially those who found the dvd in a magazine.
+> >> Also users preferring no non-free, including firmware or drivers, could
+> >> simply resinstall accepting certain firmware/drivers after finding that
+> >> their hardware doesn't work properly.
+> > 
+> > As with all suggestions to mod the installer, we still need someone to
+> > do the work, not just expect that "someone" will do it...
+> 
+> True.
+> If all installers, and not just the live installers, carry the
+> proprietory firmware/drivers, maybe that will alleviate some of the
+> workload ?
+> BTW, I'm sure that we all appreciate your important contributions on this.
+> 
+> 
+> [...]
+> 
+> >> *Live isos*
+> >> 1 live (installable like current dvds) dvd 64-bit with
+> >> kde/gnome/lxde/xfce and all localizations, and the proprietory
+> >> firmware/drivers now found on live cds.
+> >> -- variation of suggestion by Sander
+> >> -- this replaces both the current 64-bit dvd + 8 live cds
+> >> -- it seems much less likely that 64-bit users will have the download
+> >> bandwidth problems of many 32-bit users.  (If I'm not mistaken.)
+> > 
+> > You are kidding, right ?
+> > Just because they have a 64bit hw, it does not mean they have accees
+> > to cheap bw since that depends on where they live, what isp they have,
+> > and so on...
+> 
+> I agree that having 64-bit hw doesn't necessarily mean one has cheap bw.
+>   Just thought that it was more likely than many with 32-bit hw.
+> In any case, if they do have a problem, they could always use the 32-bit
+> version.  But the converse is not true.
+> 
+> >> -- users with 64-bit machines could still use a 32-bit live cd if they
+> >> wish.
+> >> -- This should save a lot of problems testing, as many potential testers
+> >> don't have 64-bit machines available.
+> >> 
+> >> 8 live cds 32-bit; kde or gnome; 4 localisation groups
+> >> -- users with 32-bit machines are more likely to have bandwidth
+> >> problems, or to not have dvd writers.
+> >> 
+> >> This totals 11 isos, down from 19. (reduced by 8 live cds.)
+> >> 
+> >> Note that I didn't include an iso without proprietory firmware/drivers,
+> >> as with appropriate warnings on those with, an iso without would be
+> >> redundant.  Just unnecessarily increasing the testing workload.
+> >> 
+> >> Note also that it would be useful to have a file in the iso directory
+> >> listing the languages available on the various live cds.  (Lacking for
+> >> mga2, but did exist for mandriva.)
+> > 
+> > Not so... every livecd is has a matching *.lang:
+> > 
+> > http://mirrors.kernel.org/mageia/iso/2/Mageia-2-LiveCD-GNOME-Europe1-Ameri
+> > cas-i586-CD/Mageia-2-LiveCD-GNOME-Europe1-Americas-i586-CD.langs
+> My mirror doesn't carry the *.lang files (mageia.webconquest.com in Canada)
+> Aren't they supposed to carry all the iso-related files, if they carry
+> isos ?
+> 
+> > And this page lists the langs on the isos too:
+> > http://www.mageia.org/en/downloads/
+> > 
+> >> A final point - to me it is really important to be able to upgrade an
+> >> existing installation, instead of forcing a clean install.  This allows
+> > 
+> > DVDs and netinstalls already support upgrades...
+> > (DVDs will still always have some problem unless you add online medias,
+> > 
+> >   as we cant fit all of the online repos on the DVDs)
+> 
+> Just made the point since there has been some discussion which seemed to
+> suggest changing that.
+> As long as one can do a release upgrade install without internet access,
+> redoing an update on line afterwards is not problematic.  It works quite
+> well.
+> 
+> > The mga3 upgrade path will need more work due to UsrMove, but it
+> > should still be possible...
+> 
+> Hopefully.  UsrMove was a good idea.
+> Maybe users with /usr on / could do UsrMove before upgrade to mga3 ?
+> 
+> >> the user to more easily keep their current configuration, and in some
+> >> cases essential drivers/firmware not on the iso.  Referring to the dvds
+> >> and the dual cd, and not the live cds, which are not primarily for
+> >> installation.
+> > 
+> > I guess you mean livecds _are_ meant for installation, not upgrades
+> 
+> Right :)
+> But I was also thinking that there will be users that just boot a live
+> cd to see what it looks like, then actually install using a dvd, or
+> maybe use the live cd just for a review (without installing).
+> 
+> > --
+> > 
+> > Thomas
+