[Mageia-dev] Mageia 3 final set of isos

Tue Sep 25 07:21:05 CEST 2012

Thomas Backlund a écrit :
+> andre999 skrev 24.9.2012 09:57:
+>> Anne Nicolas a écrit :
+>>> Hi there
+>>>
+>>> So here is the discussion about what isos we should keep or have for
+>>> final release. We had several (many!) proposals on that topics and we
+>>> need to take some decisions.
+>>>
+>>> Here are some prerequisites I can see for what I can read in comments
+>>> and review about Mageia on the web.
+>>>
+>>> - provide a full open source software version
+>>> - provide CD iso(s) so that it can be quick to download (people having
+>>> low band-width or paying depending how much they use it)
+>>> - provide live version(s)
+>>> - decrease isos number. QA is just a hell on the set we had for Mageia 2
+>>> - provide localization as large as possible
+>>> - provide isos including major drivers including proprietary one to make
+>>> it easier to install and configure
+>> ...
+>>> Please add all explanations to your proposal.
+>>>
+>>> Let say we take one week on this so until 26/09 then we will make a
+>>> final proposal
+>>>
+>>> Cheers
+>>>
+>> My suggestions :
+>> *Non-live isos*
+>> 1 dual cd with proprietory firmware/drivers
+>> -- based on comments by Alien and others
+>>
+>> 1 dvd 32-bit with proprietory firmware/drivers
+>
+>
+> you do realize that this is a no-go as we already have problem fitting
+> even LXDE on dual isos (as you only have ~350M / arch for rpms and
+> installer, so trying to load a lot of extra fw and drivers on wont work.
+>
+> And yes, we already hardlink noarch packages
+
+For the dual cd I was just going on comments by others, but I can 
+understand the space problem.  I wasn't anticipating multiple desktops 
+for that iso.  Whatever works for those who use it, and those who create 
+it, is fine by me.
+
+It has occured to me that maybe it would be better to have 2 cds, one 
+each for 32-bit and 64-bit.  That would make it a lot easier to find 
+enough space, and maybe even make it simpler to create ?  It would add 
+another cd, but maybe not increase the workload.
+Testing should be about the same.
+(And carrying 2 cds in a pocket instead of one shouldn't be a problem.)
+
+As for the 32-bit dvd with proprietory firmware and drivers where 
+reliable free aren't available, I think that that is important.
+
+>
+>> -- we could ask at the beginning something like
+>> "This disc can install proprietory firmware or drivers needed by your
+>> hardware.  Do you want to :
+>> 1) Install such software automatically,
+>> 2) Ask for each such software, or
+>> 3) Never install such software."
+>>
+>> That way users can accept or avoid such software as they wish.
+>> At the same time, users will never be stuck.  This will be particularly
+>> useful for new users, especially those who found the dvd in a magazine.
+>> Also users preferring no non-free, including firmware or drivers, could
+>> simply resinstall accepting certain firmware/drivers after finding that
+>> their hardware doesn't work properly.
+>
+> As with all suggestions to mod the installer, we still need someone to
+> do the work, not just expect that "someone" will do it...
+
+True.
+If all installers, and not just the live installers, carry the 
+proprietory firmware/drivers, maybe that will alleviate some of the 
+workload ?
+BTW, I'm sure that we all appreciate your important contributions on this.
+
+>
+[...]
+>> *Live isos*
+>> 1 live (installable like current dvds) dvd 64-bit with
+>> kde/gnome/lxde/xfce and all localizations, and the proprietory
+>> firmware/drivers now found on live cds.
+>> -- variation of suggestion by Sander
+>> -- this replaces both the current 64-bit dvd + 8 live cds
+>> -- it seems much less likely that 64-bit users will have the download
+>> bandwidth problems of many 32-bit users.  (If I'm not mistaken.)
+>
+>
+> You are kidding, right ?
+> Just because they have a 64bit hw, it does not mean they have accees
+> to cheap bw since that depends on where they live, what isp they have,
+> and so on...
+
+I agree that having 64-bit hw doesn't necessarily mean one has cheap bw. 
+  Just thought that it was more likely than many with 32-bit hw.
+In any case, if they do have a problem, they could always use the 32-bit 
+version.  But the converse is not true.
+
+>
+>> -- users with 64-bit machines could still use a 32-bit live cd if they
+>> wish.
+>> -- This should save a lot of problems testing, as many potential testers
+>> don't have 64-bit machines available.
+>>
+>> 8 live cds 32-bit; kde or gnome; 4 localisation groups
+>> -- users with 32-bit machines are more likely to have bandwidth
+>> problems, or to not have dvd writers.
+>>
+>> This totals 11 isos, down from 19. (reduced by 8 live cds.)
+>>
+>> Note that I didn't include an iso without proprietory firmware/drivers,
+>> as with appropriate warnings on those with, an iso without would be
+>> redundant.  Just unnecessarily increasing the testing workload.
+>>
+>> Note also that it would be useful to have a file in the iso directory
+>> listing the languages available on the various live cds.  (Lacking for
+>> mga2, but did exist for mandriva.)
+>>
+>
+>
+> Not so... every livecd is has a matching *.lang:
+>
+> http://mirrors.kernel.org/mageia/iso/2/Mageia-2-LiveCD-GNOME-Europe1-Americas-i586-CD/Mageia-2-LiveCD-GNOME-Europe1-Americas-i586-CD.langs
+
+My mirror doesn't carry the *.lang files (mageia.webconquest.com in Canada)
+Aren't they supposed to carry all the iso-related files, if they carry 
+isos ?
+
+>
+> And this page lists the langs on the isos too:
+> http://www.mageia.org/en/downloads/
+>
+>
+>> A final point - to me it is really important to be able to upgrade an
+>> existing installation, instead of forcing a clean install.  This allows
+>
+> DVDs and netinstalls already support upgrades...
+> (DVDs will still always have some problem unless you add online medias,
+>   as we cant fit all of the online repos on the DVDs)
+
+Just made the point since there has been some discussion which seemed to 
+suggest changing that.
+As long as one can do a release upgrade install without internet access, 
+redoing an update on line afterwards is not problematic.  It works quite 
+well.
+>
+> The mga3 upgrade path will need more work due to UsrMove, but it
+> should still be possible...
+
+Hopefully.  UsrMove was a good idea.
+Maybe users with /usr on / could do UsrMove before upgrade to mga3 ?
+>
+>> the user to more easily keep their current configuration, and in some
+>> cases essential drivers/firmware not on the iso.  Referring to the dvds
+>> and the dual cd, and not the live cds, which are not primarily for
+>> installation.
+>
+> I guess you mean livecds _are_ meant for installation, not upgrades
+
+Right :)
+But I was also thinking that there will be users that just boot a live 
+cd to see what it looks like, then actually install using a dvd, or 
+maybe use the live cd just for a review (without installing).
+
+>
+> --
+>
+> Thomas
+>
+>
+
+-- 
+André
+