[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

Mon Mar 28 20:09:01 CEST 2011

Hello
+On lundi 28 mars 2011 at 00:33, andre999 wrote :
+> If we want to avoid the situation where people are dissatisfied because 
+> the DVD they install produces a Mageia system where the hardware doesn't 
+> work properly, we have to provide a single DVD that is complete, in 
+> terms of hardware drivers.
+> Such cases will produce a lot of negative reaction to Mageia among many 
+> users.
+> Saying that users should install with 2 ISOs may sound great, but many 
+> will forget the secondary ISO.  Why would they expect to need it ?  And 
+> why would they want the hassle of a second ISO, when one is a DVD ?
+> A much simpler, ergonomic solution is make space (you suggest 60 M) on 
+> the DVD for the necessary drivers.
+> (That might mean removing 1 or 2 packages that few users would want
+> anyway.) At least we will have a product much less likely to give a
+> negative reaction.
+> Let's face it.  The DVD will contain proprietary firmware/drivers 
+> anyway, so why not include all that is necessary for a properly running 
+> system ?
+> Excluding these drivers just ensures that we will have the reputation of 
+> not supporting all hardware.
+> 
+> If the community really wants to produce a totally free DVD, it should 
+> be called "free for experts" accompanied with a "drivers for free for 
+> experts" CD.
+> Of course this DVD will have to have a special kernel, compiled without 
+> proprietory firmware/drivers.  Otherwise it is just an exercice in 
+> hypocracy.
+> But that is another question.
+> 
+> Then we could call the normal DVD "free with proprietory drivers".
+> Of course this normal DVD would only include such proprietory drivers 
+> where there is not a reliable open source equivalent available.
+> We could consider this a sort of "as free as possible in practice" for a 
+> fully working system, in terms of hardware.
+> 
+> (If we go for the alternate DVD solution, the easiest way is to produce 
+> the normal DVD with all the drivers, and just exclude the proprietory 
+> drivers on the other, putting them on the CD.  But such as DVD would't 
+> be totally free.)
+> 
+> BTW, the Mandriva free DVD lacks some necessary drivers, which is really 
+> a hassle if one doesn't have internet access during install, even for 
+> advanced Mandriva Linux users.
+
+How about adding an initial check to the installer?
+
+A "grey list" of hardware wich requires non-free/tainted components would be 
+created, associating the hardware ID with the package(s) containing the 
+required components to make it work.
+Maybe that list could be created automatically from the packages?
+Then the installer check the detected hardware against that list before 
+asking any other question.
+Then if there is some hardware from the list it will check on its current 
+media if the required packages are available, if so the install can go on 
+normally, if not the installer inform the user that it is missing some 
+driver/firmware/something else to support some hardware, then the user could 
+either:
+- immediately add another install media, which would be added to the list of 
+available media and the check done again
+- continue anyway (if the user know that he can go on without that hardware)
+- immediately stop the install to go fetch another install media, or an add-
+on driver media.
+
+This way the user does not risk to discover that something doesn't work 
+after the install, when it may be too late.
+
+The list could eventually be split between "must have" hardware (network, 
+maybe some RAID controller?) and "nice to have hardware" (anything that can 
+be configured after install).
+
+Maybe it is too late in the development cycle of the first release to have 
+such a change in the installer.
+
+-- 
+Renaud Michel
+