[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

Mon Mar 28 00:33:38 CEST 2011

Frank Griffin a écrit :
+>
+> On 03/26/2011 06:37 PM, Maarten Vanraes wrote:
+>>
+>> During the times mandriva had several CDs to install it, the new ones
+>> often
+>> only dl'ed one and complained when stuff didn't work.
+>>
+>> I forsee possibly here the same issue with this, people will forget to
+>> download the extra non_free CD, or do not care about non_free; wipe their
+>> windows, install mageia, and have no networking to even get drivers
+>> anymore.
+>>
+>> how would we advertise this anyway? this extra CD contains non_free
+>> software,
+>> but if you have an machine with networking from vendor X with types
+>> Y,Z,...
+>> you will absolutely need this to have functional networking?
+>>
+>> it sounds to me like an awful lot of extra work, and complaints, etc...
+> Well, then, maybe what we need to do is say that both ISOs, the 4.7GB
+> primary and the 60 MB(?) secondary ar both required, and let the people
+> who don't need the second one be pleasantly surprised.
+
+Wouldn't it be better that new users be pleasantly surprised by a system 
+that installs nicely from a single DVD, and all the hardware "just works" ?
+
+If we want to avoid the situation where people are dissatisfied because 
+the DVD they install produces a Mageia system where the hardware doesn't 
+work properly, we have to provide a single DVD that is complete, in 
+terms of hardware drivers.
+Such cases will produce a lot of negative reaction to Mageia among many 
+users.
+Saying that users should install with 2 ISOs may sound great, but many 
+will forget the secondary ISO.  Why would they expect to need it ?  And 
+why would they want the hassle of a second ISO, when one is a DVD ?
+A much simpler, ergonomic solution is make space (you suggest 60 M) on 
+the DVD for the necessary drivers.
+(That might mean removing 1 or 2 packages that few users would want anyway.)
+At least we will have a product much less likely to give a negative 
+reaction.
+Let's face it.  The DVD will contain proprietary firmware/drivers 
+anyway, so why not include all that is necessary for a properly running 
+system ?
+Excluding these drivers just ensures that we will have the reputation of 
+not supporting all hardware.
+
+If the community _really_ wants to produce a totally free DVD, it should 
+be called "free for experts" accompanied with a "drivers for free for 
+experts" CD.
+Of course this DVD will have to have a special kernel, compiled without 
+proprietory firmware/drivers.  Otherwise it is just an exercice in 
+hypocracy.
+But that is another question.
+
+Then we could call the normal DVD "free with proprietory drivers".
+Of course this normal DVD would only include such proprietory drivers 
+where there is not a reliable open source equivalent available.
+We could consider this a sort of "as free as possible in practice" for a 
+fully working system, in terms of hardware.
+
+(If we go for the alternate DVD solution, the easiest way is to produce 
+the normal DVD with all the drivers, and just exclude the proprietory 
+drivers on the other, putting them on the CD.  But such as DVD would't 
+be totally free.)
+
+BTW, the Mandriva free DVD lacks some necessary drivers, which is really 
+a hassle if one doesn't have internet access during install, even for 
+advanced Mandriva Linux users.
+
+-- 
+André
+