[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing

Sun Oct 30 00:16:49 CEST 2011

'Twas brillig, and Thomas Backlund at 27/10/11 15:12 did gyre and gimble:
+> Sander Lepik skrev 27.10.2011 17:01:
+>> 27.10.2011 16:45, Thomas Backlund kirjutas:
+>>> Sander Lepik skrev 27.10.2011 16:07:
+>>>> 27.10.2011 15:33, Thomas Backlund kirjutas:
+>>>>>
+>>>>> My laptop hangs on shutdown.
+>>>> My desktop has quite a long delay before it turns off (maybe even 5
+>>>> minutes).
+>>>
+>>> Ok, so thats a showstopper that need to be fixed.
+>> Yes.
+>>>
+>>>> With dracut i got my system booting (soft raid1 + lvm (also i had to
+>>>> move /usr under /)).
+>>>>
+>>>
+>>> And so is this. if dracut or systemd requires /usr to be under / then
+>>> it will _never_ be default.
+>> It's systemd. It has some libs in /usr/lib that it needs for
+>> udev.service (if i remember correctly) and for some reason udev.service
+>> is needed for mounting services. Tho' if it fails and switches into
+>> rescue console i can manually mount /usr and make it continue booting.
+>> Maybe we can reorder those services somehow.
+> 
+> Then we need to move those libs to /lib(64)
+
+There is quite serious talk about deprecating /lib, /bin and /sbin and
+basically anything that is not in /usr (with exceptions for /home /root,
+/etc and a few others). Of course there are various flames about this
+idea (earth will collapse into sun etc.) but it's actually surprisingly
+well received thus far IMO.
+
+Also, keep in mind that you're talking about moving a *lot* to / here...
+all the PCI/USB databases, all the udev setup, any application that udev
+might run in it's rules.... I won't reiterate what is written in the
+link Olav already provided, but suffice to say the problem is neither
+new, not specific to systemd. It's just being highlighted by systemd.
+Please keep this in mind when commenting on this topic.
+
+>>> That's just plain idiotic.
+>> I somewhat agree. But even Fedora is suggesting not to have separate
+>> /usr :(
+>>
+> 
+> That does not make it less idiotic. IIRC they employ the systemd creator
+> so...
+
+But that doesn't make the idea any more or less idiotic.
+
+The reasons stated (and this discussion happened many months ago) are
+all well understood and documented in the link provided by Olav.
+
+It is NOT a systemd problem. It's a problem we have RIGHT NOW too, it's
+just that most setups are easy enough to work around by waiting and
+doing this sequentially which slows down the whole boot process. We've
+solved similar problems in the past by moving things to /lib but it's
+just a sticking plaster, not a real fix.
+
+If you have constructive criticism as to the reasons why this is now
+warned about specifically in systemd, then this is perfectly valid but
+should be done in context rather than simply calling it "idiotic"
+without any further clarification.
+
+And systemd is not saying that /usr cannot be on a separate partition.
+It's just saying that it cannot realistically be the job of the init
+system to mount it, it has to be handled at early boot in the initramfs,
+not by init. The reasons why this is the case are documented very clearly.
+
+Hope this helps clarify this discussion without going over old ground again.
+
+Col
+
+
+
+-- 
+
+Colin Guthrie
+colin(at)mageia.org
+http://colin.guthr.ie/
+
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+  Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/
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+  Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
+