[Mageia-dev] Drakxnet, drakroam and Draknetcenter : let's fix it or throw it.

Tue Aug 2 22:20:49 CEST 2011

Op dinsdag 02 augustus 2011 17:29:35 schreef Buchan Milne:
+> On Monday, 1 August 2011 20:21:21 Maarten Vanraes wrote:
+> > Op maandag 01 augustus 2011 11:42:26 schreef Thomas Lottmann:
+> > > Hello,
+> > > 
+> > > I should have written this mail much sooner, but finally, I am totally,
+> > > completely and starting to be hatefully fed up of these tools.
+> > > 
+> > > The Mandriva/Mageia tools that manage the network on computers,
+> > > especially the wireless networks are completely dysfunctional. While
+> > > the Network Center does not seem to even communicate with the system
+> > > tools to know what is happening during the link setup, it does not
+> > > auto-refresh network lists properly.
+> > > 
+> > > Since 2010.1 now even mixes up itself in it's own network scripts (the
+> > > ones stored in wireless.d). This maxes it wrongly detect numerous
+> > > wireless points (he seen WPA2 Enterperise hotspots as opened or WEP, or
+> > > more nerving, becomes incapable or storing the right authentication
+> > > information).
+> 
+> My "production" laptop is still currently running Mandriva 2010.x, and I
+> don't have problems like this. Work networks run WPA2-Enterprise with
+> EAP-PEAP- MSCHAPv2, home runs WPA2-Personal. In the cases I have seen
+> this, it is typically a buggy AP (and in some cases, other platforms have
+> also mis- detected the network details). In some cases, upgrading the AP
+> firmware has resolved the problem.
+> 
+> But, these are *specific* issues, and need bug reports with detailed
+> information.
+> 
+> > > A tool that breaks itself is a complete shame!
+> > > 
+> > > The GUI is also appalling. Despite it's numerous possibilities, it is a
+> > > mess and 60% of it cannot be used by something else than the system or
+> > > a network expert.
+> 
+> There are some deficiencies, but in many cases it does at least work. And
+> at least my network comes up regardless of how I boot, where I booted to,
+> whether a user is logged in to a desktop or not (which is not the case on
+> e.g. Fedora).
+> 
+> > > The code itself is undocumented and it extremely difficult to read.
+> 
+> The few times I looked at the code, it was quite readable. Unfortunately,
+> the pieces I wanted to do something about ended up requiring changes in
+> non-perl parts.
+> 
+> > > These tools are getting really bad and not working properly anyway
+> > > since a long time now. So either we fix it and improve it (recoding?),
+> > > either we definitely switch to Network Manager.
+> 
+> Please no. The biggest frustrations I personally have have nothing to do
+> with net_applet vs NM. My current biggest frustrations are:
+> 
+> 1)That wpa_supplicant doesn't return different results on incorrect (WPA2-
+> Enterprise EAP-PEAP) passwords:
+> http://hostap.epitest.fi/bugz/show_bug.cgi?id=399
+> 
+> 2)That net_applet doesn't prompt for passwords if wpa_supplicant says it
+> needs a password. I filed a bug for this against Mandriva:
+> https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=51705
+> 
+> Implementing the required dbus communication would allow a number of other
+> improvements (e.g. not having to restart wpa_supplicant for configuration
+> changes, possibly avoid manual parsing/writing of the configuration etc.).
+> 
+> > > I am ready to participate if
+> > > necessary (despite my lack of competence), but I do not want to see
+> > > these tools 'as is' on my computer anymore, and no longer want to see
+> > > these issues that down Mageia's reputation in comparison to other
+> > > popular projects here such as Arch, Fedora or Ubuntu, who do have
+> > > proper tools delivered by default.
+> 
+> I disagree with your statement. For example, while Fedora may seem to have
+> "proper tools", there are many use cases that aren't considered, and a
+> number of issues are still experienced (at least according to my
+> colleagues reports).
+> 
+> Allowing NM or non-NM, and having both improved would be win-win.
+> 
+> > > This is not the first time I complain about this tool. We should not
+> > > leave this unchanged. It is far too annoying and pushing to so much
+> > > loss of time.
+> > > 
+> > > Yours sincerely,.
+> > > 
+> > > Thomas.
+> > 
+> > personally, alot of problems could likely be attributed to using all
+> > those several of those apps together.
+> > 
+> > imho, the network tools should be redesigned a bit, according to good
+> > usability, but mostly, either they should all be nicely integrated which
+> > each other, or we should just have one that does all nicely.
+> > 
+> > personally, i find the netapplet the best working and use that
+> > exclusively to avoid issues.
+> > 
+> > but sadly, even netapplet is far from complete.
+> > 
+> > as some kind of start, we should have an app that exists in drakconf, but
+> > also accessible via an applet, but again, perhaps we should have multiple
+> > applets, with one for each connection.
+> 
+> I don't think this is necessary, the 'Network Center' does an adequate job
+> (taking into account some limitations in the network scripts).
+> 
+> > eg: a wifi access link, 2 network connections (one of which goes to
+> > internet), and 3 openvpn tunnels (as an example) it would even be better,
+> > if bluetooth networking could also be included.
+> 
+> Bluetooth networking *can* be included, but there is an artificial
+> limitation on only one ppp connection, so you wouldn't be able to have a
+> Bluetooth SPP- based ppp connection as well as a
+> mobile-broadband-dongle-based connection (or ADSL).
+
+why would there be only 1 possible ppp connection? that sounds odd.
+
+> For bluetooth ppp over SPP, the bluetooth configuration only needs to be
+> done once ever (if done correctly), the rfcomm connections will be
+> established when necessary.
+> 
+> (Or, are you referring to PAN?).
+
+i think i was, yes, but i'm not too clear on how this sort of thing works
+
+> > (this would also allow for
+> > multiple internet connections at a later time with some advanced routing)
+> > 
+> > at the same time, people could tell at a glance if they accidentally use
+> > more than one internet access method.
+> 
+> You can see this in Network Center.
+
+yes, but i'm not really a fan of network center, and the whole point of the 
+net_applet is that you can always see it, in your systray area. which is where 
+i'd like to have all current networking connections separately, so you can 
+have 3 openvpn connection and 3 icons, it can more easily show you which are 
+working and which aren't.
+
+each of those icons should be 4 state, off-state (but present), on-state, fail-
+state and gateway-state (this connection is use as one of the default routes.)
+
+(incidentally, i'd also like for most connections to set up default route and 
+having some small advanced routing that would at least enforce symmetrical 
+routing.
+
+eg: each such icon could have as right click menu:
+ - enable/disable
+ - reconnect (?)
+ - use for internet (default route)
+ - delete
+-------------------
+ - add new connection (wizard with several types: vpn, virtual interfaces, 
+bonds, bridges, etc... )
+ - firewall ----> (firewall options)
+---------------
+ - network center
+ - help
+ - exit
+
+ie: no more "followed interface, and the like options, because they only 
+confuse people.
+
+in drakconf there should then be a network center which is the same thing if 
+you click on the net_applet on network center.
+
+the network center should also be an extension of net_applet, the same icons 
+should be shown, but bigger with the same states and same right click menu,.
+
+
+iow: i would like them all to be nicely integrated with eachother.
+
+
+> > about openvpn, some of those are user-related (even though they have
+> > effects on global routing), especially password related things,
+> > personally, i think it'd be better if these can only be controlled
+> > through the applet by the user it's from (with perhaps an option to
+> > allow any user to control this too)
+> > 
+> > again with openvpn, it would be usefull if there was some kind of way to
+> > know it's not only running, but also if it's essentially active or not,
+> > and if it's used as a internet gateway.
+> 
+> Well, the general feedback provided to users (also with e.g. ppp
+> connections) could be improved.
+> 
+> > These are some things which i have noticed over the years of using it and
+> > listening to end-user problems.
+> > 
+> > 
+> > perhaps the above can be used as a starting point for a usability scheme.
+> > 
+> > Thomas, since you feel this strongly, are you willing to spend some time
+> > on this?
+> 
+> Regards,
+> Buchan
+