[Mageia-dev] Drakxnet, drakroam and Draknetcenter : let's fix it or throw it.

Tue Aug 2 17:29:35 CEST 2011

On Monday, 1 August 2011 20:21:21 Maarten Vanraes wrote:
+> Op maandag 01 augustus 2011 11:42:26 schreef Thomas Lottmann:
+> > Hello,
+> > 
+> > I should have written this mail much sooner, but finally, I am totally,
+> > completely and starting to be hatefully fed up of these tools.
+> > 
+> > The Mandriva/Mageia tools that manage the network on computers,
+> > especially the wireless networks are completely dysfunctional. While the
+> > Network Center does not seem to even communicate with the system tools
+> > to know what is happening during the link setup, it does not
+> > auto-refresh network lists properly.
+> > 
+> > Since 2010.1 now even mixes up itself in it's own network scripts (the
+> > ones stored in wireless.d). This maxes it wrongly detect numerous
+> > wireless points (he seen WPA2 Enterperise hotspots as opened or WEP, or
+> > more nerving, becomes incapable or storing the right authentication
+> > information).
+
+My "production" laptop is still currently running Mandriva 2010.x, and I don't 
+have problems like this. Work networks run WPA2-Enterprise with EAP-PEAP-
+MSCHAPv2, home runs WPA2-Personal. In the cases I have seen this, it is 
+typically a buggy AP (and in some cases, other platforms have also mis-
+detected the network details). In some cases, upgrading the AP firmware has 
+resolved the problem.
+
+But, these are *specific* issues, and need bug reports with detailed 
+information.
+
+> > A tool that breaks itself is a complete shame!
+> > 
+> > The GUI is also appalling. Despite it's numerous possibilities, it is a
+> > mess and 60% of it cannot be used by something else than the system or a
+> > network expert.
+
+There are some deficiencies, but in many cases it does at least work. And at 
+least my network comes up regardless of how I boot, where I booted to, whether 
+a user is logged in to a desktop or not (which is not the case on e.g. 
+Fedora).
+
+> > 
+> > The code itself is undocumented and it extremely difficult to read.
+> >
+
+The few times I looked at the code, it was quite readable. Unfortunately, the 
+pieces I wanted to do something about ended up requiring changes in non-perl 
+parts.
+ 
+> > These tools are getting really bad and not working properly anyway since
+> > a long time now. So either we fix it and improve it (recoding?), either
+> > we definitely switch to Network Manager.
+
+Please no. The biggest frustrations I personally have have nothing to do with 
+net_applet vs NM. My current biggest frustrations are:
+
+1)That wpa_supplicant doesn't return different results on incorrect (WPA2-
+Enterprise EAP-PEAP) passwords:
+http://hostap.epitest.fi/bugz/show_bug.cgi?id=399
+
+2)That net_applet doesn't prompt for passwords if wpa_supplicant says it needs 
+a password. I filed a bug for this against Mandriva:
+https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=51705
+
+Implementing the required dbus communication would allow a number of other 
+improvements (e.g. not having to restart wpa_supplicant for configuration 
+changes, possibly avoid manual parsing/writing of the configuration etc.).
+
+> > I am ready to participate if
+> > necessary (despite my lack of competence), but I do not want to see
+> > these tools 'as is' on my computer anymore, and no longer want to see
+> > these issues that down Mageia's reputation in comparison to other
+> > popular projects here such as Arch, Fedora or Ubuntu, who do have proper
+> > tools delivered by default.
+
+I disagree with your statement. For example, while Fedora may seem to have 
+"proper tools", there are many use cases that aren't considered, and a number 
+of issues are still experienced (at least according to my colleagues reports).
+
+Allowing NM or non-NM, and having both improved would be win-win.
+
+> > 
+> > This is not the first time I complain about this tool. We should not
+> > leave this unchanged. It is far too annoying and pushing to so much loss
+> > of time.
+> > 
+> > Yours sincerely,.
+> > 
+> > Thomas.
+> 
+> personally, alot of problems could likely be attributed to using all those
+> several of those apps together.
+> 
+> imho, the network tools should be redesigned a bit, according to good
+> usability, but mostly, either they should all be nicely integrated which
+> each other, or we should just have one that does all nicely.
+> 
+> personally, i find the netapplet the best working and use that exclusively
+> to avoid issues.
+> 
+> but sadly, even netapplet is far from complete.
+> 
+> as some kind of start, we should have an app that exists in drakconf, but
+> also accessible via an applet, but again, perhaps we should have multiple
+> applets, with one for each connection.
+
+I don't think this is necessary, the 'Network Center' does an adequate job 
+(taking into account some limitations in the network scripts).
+
+> eg: a wifi access link, 2 network connections (one of which goes to
+> internet), and 3 openvpn tunnels (as an example) it would even be better,
+> if bluetooth networking could also be included.
+
+Bluetooth networking *can* be included, but there is an artificial limitation 
+on only one ppp connection, so you wouldn't be able to have a Bluetooth SPP-
+based ppp connection as well as a mobile-broadband-dongle-based connection (or 
+ADSL).
+
+For bluetooth ppp over SPP, the bluetooth configuration only needs to be done 
+once ever (if done correctly), the rfcomm connections will be established when 
+necessary.
+
+(Or, are you referring to PAN?).
+
+> (this would also allow for
+> multiple internet connections at a later time with some advanced routing)
+> 
+> at the same time, people could tell at a glance if they accidentally use
+> more than one internet access method.
+
+You can see this in Network Center.
+
+> about openvpn, some of those are user-related (even though they have
+> effects on global routing), especially password related things,
+> personally, i think it'd be better if these can only be controlled through
+> the applet by the user it's from (with perhaps an option to allow any user
+> to control this too)
+> 
+> again with openvpn, it would be usefull if there was some kind of way to
+> know it's not only running, but also if it's essentially active or not,
+> and if it's used as a internet gateway.
+
+Well, the general feedback provided to users (also with e.g. ppp connections) 
+could be improved.
+
+> 
+> These are some things which i have noticed over the years of using it and
+> listening to end-user problems.
+> 
+> 
+> perhaps the above can be used as a starting point for a usability scheme.
+> 
+> Thomas, since you feel this strongly, are you willing to spend some time on
+> this?
+
+
+Regards,
+Buchan
+