[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout

Thu Dec 16 12:36:51 CET 2010

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:47, Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. <ewilcox at bex.net> wrote:
+> If the Mageia community chooses to ignore the laws of some countries for any
+> reason (even if the community can not be prosecuted), I want nothing to do
+> with it.
+
+So you do already. The common subset of laws of all countries in the
+world is like... almost empty. The global tendency in the past decades
+is to grow this common subset but it's far from being achieved (and
+may as well reverse, history showed us).
+
+As a matter of fact, Mageia as an organisation fostering free software
+and innovation through collaboration is likely to ignore/refute/fight,
+by whatever mean and at whatever relevant scale, laws that would
+censor/prohibit, as such:
+ - reverse-engineering
+ - cryptography tools
+ - freedom of speech
+ - user privacy
+ - to name just 4 of them.
+
+See? There are significant countries in this case.
+
+"Obey the law" is not rule #0 in life (even more if unbalanced). If it
+were, we would mostly all be slaves, instead of free citizens.
+
+> A strongly stated position, honestly presented should never cause offense to
+> any one.
+
+You cannot please everyone. Law of life.
+
+> If I havce offended you, I appologize as that was not my intent, but I
+> will not appologize for my beliefs.
+
+And you should not. :-) As long as things are said with respect.
+
+> The variety of laws that exist is not the issue, the fact that they do exist
+> is, and this is why I think PLF is a good place for "questionable" software.
+> If we choose to provide such software ourselves, then it should be in a
+> "tainted" listing or repo.
+
+Yes. But this is still an "imperfect" solution as the frontier between
+what should be in tainted and core will vary according to the
+territory you are in. So we have to decide on a _reasonable_ frontier,
+that will not match strictly everyone anyway.
+
+> I have no problem with such software being distributed where it is legal.
+> I simply want to make it easy for end users and
+> miror hosts to exclude this software where it is illegal.
+
+We can't do it totally for three reasons:
+ * law is not universally the same;
+ * law changes, wherever it is. What is legal today may be illegal
+tomorrow. What was illegal today may be legal tomorrow.
+ * patents may be invalid or have expired (although properly registered).
+
+So again, that does not help us but realize that we cannot have a
+stable layout policy for what comes under "core", "non-free" and
+"tainted". This is a matter of finding a reasonable balance, regarding
+a given set of laws (likely, European/US laws).
+
+Because, otherwise:
+ * as soon as someone claims having a patent anywhere on some methods
+implemented in some software of core, it should move to "tainted"
+(with all consequences).
+ * as soon as a patent expire (or its invalidity is revealed through a
+court decision), all related "tainted" packages may move into "core"
+or "non-free".
+
+So indeed, we've got to build this "tainted" repository and fill it
+with what we think it should reasonably be with; that means having a
+policy (list of questions to ask to qualify the package/software to
+enter "tainted" or not). I proposed one earlier, that was extreme
+(that was the goal). We should have a similar one, amended.
+
+> I will not enter
+> into the argument that it is not illegal untill the patent holder comes after
+> you. To my way of thinking, that feels very similar to saying that stealing is
+> not a crime untill you get caught.
+
+Do not map physical/concrete world metaphors to immaterial world. It
+is not the same. Not the same rules apply. And thinking/law is lagging
+a lot in this regard, as for any new/young stuff.
+
+Cheers,
+
+Romain
+