[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout

Thu Dec 16 10:47:07 CET 2010

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 02:44:21AM -0500, Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. wrote:
+| >Consideration of software patents and copyrights does not constitute  |  |  
+| implicit 
+ | >support for them. It does however constitute explicit support for  |  | 
+obediance of 
+ | >the law. Like it or not, patent and copyright laws do exist in some  | 
+countries 
+ | >(especially the U.S.A. - my home), and it is our responsibility to take 
+those 
+ | >laws into considertion (whether we want to or not). Laws can not be 
+changed by 
+ | >ignoring them, only broken. People who break laws are criminals - no ifs, 
+ | >ands, or buts, about it. If the Mageia community chooses to opeate as a 
+ | >criminal organization, I will have nothing to do with it.
+ | I don't agree on most of the above, and i believe the last sentence to be
+ | offensive, but i will not retaliate lest it becomes a flame war.
+
+I do not see how that statement is offensive. It is a simple statement of fact. 
+If the Mageia community chooses to ignore the laws of some countries for any 
+reason (even if the community can not be prosecuted), I want nothing to do 
+with it. I do not believe that this will be the case, but that is how I feel. 
+A strongly stated position, honestly presented should never cause offense to 
+any one. If I havce offended you, I appologize as that was not my intent, but I 
+will not appologize for my beliefs.
+
+ | >We are discussing whether to accomodate software patent and copyright law 
+in 
+ | >countries where it exists. I can see no way to avoud doing so. We can 
+include 
+ | >patented software in our distribution if we choose to do so (and I think 
+we 
+ | >should), but we must provide both mirror hosts and end users (including 
+me) a 
+ | >method of easily excluding such software. By doing so, we give our users 
+and 
+ | >supporters the freedom to choose to obey the law where they live and still 
+use 
+ | >or support our distribution.
+ | The biggest problem is the variety of patent laws existing in the world,
+ | besides the fact that patents are not granted worldwide, thus forcing
+ | mageia to taint software that should not be under different
+ | legislations. See the difference between fair-use clauses in laws about
+ | circumvention devices.
+
+The variety of laws that exist is not the issue, the fact that they do exist 
+is, and this is why I think PLF is a good place for "questionable" software. 
+If we choose to provide such software ourselves, then it should be in a 
+"tainted" listing or repo. 
+
+ | >As I see it, we already have a usable mirror lay-out (posted earlier in 
+this 
+ | >thread). The only real discussion that should remain is whether to include 
+the 
+ | >"tainted" branch in the official Mageia tree, or to offer it in an alternate 
+ | >repository such as PLF (my earlier suggestion).
+ | I don't believe a separate repository would give any benefit, in any
+ | case it would be software provided by mageia, and built on mageia
+ | build-cluster.
+
+If we place the "tainted" software in the official Mageia mirror, then it should 
+be in its own directory. If we put it in PLF, then it will get its own 
+repository as a natural course of events. In either case, what is most 
+important is that the user be able to install Mageia without the potential 
+risk that such software may present, then if the user chooses to install the 
+"questionable" software, (s)he is making an informed decision.
+
+ | >In either case, I do not believe that ALL patented (or Copyrighted) 
+software 
+ | >should be placed there (in the "tainted" branch). Some such software comes 
+ | >with explicit permission to use (perhaps nVidia and/or ATI drivers?). In 
+other 
+ | >cases, we may be able to contact the patent or copyright holder and get 
+ | >explicit permission to include their software in our distribution. In such 
+ | >cases, we should be able to safely (for both our users and supporters) 
+include 
+ | >the patented / copyrighted software with the official branch of our 
+ | >distribution.
+ | Software with non-free license but permission to distribute should end
+ | in non-free, software with a non-free license and no permission to
+ | distribute should not be distributed. But this is a very different issue
+ | from free-software possibly breaking some patent. Please do not mix the
+ | two issues.
+
+I agree with both parts of your first statement. I was not thinking at all 
+about free software that may break some patent, but perhaps I should have. 
+There is free software that is known to be patent infringing (writing 
+(creating) an mp3 file comes to mind). It is such software that should be 
+placed separately (perhaps in a "non-free" or "tainted" directory) from the 
+main Mageia distribution. I have no problem with such software being 
+distributed where it is legal. I simply want to make it easy for end users and 
+miror hosts to exclude this software where it is illegal. I will not enter 
+into the argument that it is not illegal untill the patent holder comes after 
+you. To my way of thinking, that feels very similar to saying that stealing is 
+not a crime untill you get caught.
+
+-- 
+Ernest N. Wilcox Jr.
+Registered Linux User 247790
+ICQ 41060744
+