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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2012-April/004357.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2012-April/004357.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..22793961a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2012-April/004357.html @@ -0,0 +1,282 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-sysadm] questions about our infrastructure setup & costs + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-sysadm%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-sysadm%5D%20questions%20about%20our%20infrastructure%20setup%20%26%20costs&In-Reply-To=%3C1333378799.2633.63.camel%40liliana.cdg.redhat.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="004356.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="004359.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-sysadm] questions about our infrastructure setup & costs</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-sysadm%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-sysadm%5D%20questions%20about%20our%20infrastructure%20setup%20%26%20costs&In-Reply-To=%3C1333378799.2633.63.camel%40liliana.cdg.redhat.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-sysadm] questions about our infrastructure setup & costs">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Apr 2 16:59:59 CEST 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="004356.html">[Mageia-sysadm] questions about our infrastructure setup & costs +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="004359.html">[Mageia-sysadm] questions about our infrastructure setup & costs +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#4357">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#4357">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#4357">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#4357">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le lundi 02 avril 2012 à 15:23 +0200, Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +><i> Hi, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> following past week-end incident, and I know that there are already +</I>><i> some reflexions and discussions about that, I'm posting the following +</I>><i> questions/needs, with my treasurer/board hat; some of these may +</I>><i> already have answers, so please just link me to them. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It comes down to: +</I>><i> - board needs to have an up-to-date view of how much our +</I>><i> infrastructure costs, and would cost in different setups; and this, +</I>><i> split in separate, functional chunks; +</I> +That's a rather odd question, since with your treasurer hat, you should +have all infos, so I do not really see what we can answer to that. + +The list of servers is in puppet : +<A HREF="http://svnweb.mageia.org/adm/puppet/manifests/nodes/">http://svnweb.mageia.org/adm/puppet/manifests/nodes/</A> + +and each has some module assigned to it, take this as functional chunk. +Unfortunately, the servers are all doing more than one tasks, so +splitting them in functional chunks do not mean much. + +><i> - how can we change our setup to: 1) reduce the impact of having one +</I>><i> chunk (here a faulty RJ45 in Marseille) shut down so much of the +</I>><i> project for such a long time and +</I> +That's easy to explain. + +You identify each single point of failure, ( or spof ) and you make sure +to remove the 'single' from SPOF by making it redundant. + +For exemple, have 2 redundant power supply. Have 2 redundant ldap server +( we already do it ), have 2 redundant network connection. + +Of course, the downside is that it cost twice the price ( at least ), +and it is more complex. + +Another solution is to try to increase the MTRR. + +><i> 2) have a quick report, automatic +</I>><i> about this (not only for sysadmin, but for all users of our +</I>><i> infrastructure). +</I> +I do think for me that the current report of xymon are sufficient. + +><i> So here is how I would put it: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> A. could you, as sysadmin, draw (graphically) the dependencies +</I>><i> between services, at a certain functional scale + their current +</I>><i> location/host; +</I>><i> * goal: have an overview of Mageia infrastructure, from the outside +</I>><i> of sysadmin team (and yes, again, that is needed); +</I>><i> * can we get it produced from the puppet conf? => the goal being +</I>><i> for now to have such a visual overview first, not to have it +</I>><i> automated. +</I>><i> * the function blocks I can think of would be (but add/split/fix +</I>><i> accordingly): +</I>><i> + core for communication & doc: +</I>><i> - user accounts (LDAP, identity.m.o) +</I>><i> - communications (mailing-lists, mail server) +</I>><i> - documentation (Wiki, Bugzilla) +</I>><i> - a specific code repository (not related to the build system) +</I>><i> for adm and/or one dedicated to organization (paperwork, reports, +</I>><i> constitution, etc.) +</I>><i> + Web hosts (www, blog, planet, forums, security notifs, etc.) +</I>><i> + core for building the distribution +</I>><i> - code repo +</I>><i> - buildsystem +</I>><i> - translation tools +</I>><i> - other? +</I>><i> + core for distribution software +</I>><i> - primary mirror +</I>><i> + other? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> B. based on these functional chunks, for each, could you: +</I>><i> * document what is needed for them: storage, bandwidth, what it +</I>><i> represent in full hardware today, what it should grow to. Goals are: +</I>><i> - to have a clear idea of how much it represents/costs: today, or +</I>><i> if we would move to other hosting solutions (paid or not, hardware or +</I>><i> virtual); +</I>><i> - to know how much we need to budget in security for these services; +</I>><i> - to know what our options (and needs) are for migrating some +</I>><i> services to an architecture or a paid solution that would improve +</I>><i> their availability (and accessibility in case of failure). +</I> +so basically, if I take the price from OVH ( as they have a lot of +choices and are rather cheap ) : + +- alamut would cost around 84 e per month at ovh.fr. That's the closest +server we can find in their offer. + +- valstar has much more processors, ( 16 core ) and less ram, so let's +evaluate this at 100e to 110e per month ( processor are more expensive +than memory ) + +- ecosse would be around the same as alamut, but there is less ram so 70 +to 80 euros per month + +- jonund has more processor so let's say too around 100 to 110e per +month. + +- fiona would like be 30 to 40 euros per month, given the price of +Kimsufi ( cheaper servers from OVH ) + +- I cannot connect to sukuc from my bastion, so I do not know, but since +that's a brand new server, let's say 80e per month. + +As we cannot rent arm boards, let's assume that we will rent the space +to host them. + +Housing can be found in Paris for 300e : +<A HREF="http://www.online.net/serveur-dedie/offre-dedibox-housing-dedirack.xhtml">http://www.online.net/serveur-dedie/offre-dedibox-housing-dedirack.xhtml</A> + +since that's too much space for 2 arm board, I found a cheaper +alternative : +<A HREF="https://www.ovh.com/fr/housing/location_baie_1_a_3U.xml">https://www.ovh.com/fr/housing/location_baie_1_a_3U.xml</A> +99e + +That make around 570 to 600 euros per month, for replacing the free +hosting in LO with paid server, hosting them on one of the cheapest +providers in the world. And for this price, we have of course no SSD on +the builder ( there is some offer with small SSD, count 10 euros more +per month and per server ) etc. + +If we want to just host them in Paris, I think we can have for 600 euros +per month, just for the housing, since we would use more than 3U ( I do +not know exactly how much ). + +People can feel free to redo the cost analysis on amazon EC2 or +rackspace, I was not able to understand how much would alamut cost at +rackspace ( not even if that's even possible to have a server where we +are in charge ), and amazon ec2 pricing is to hosting what java is to my +abacus. + +And for being complete, I also searched random hosters around the +world : + +I found this +<A HREF="http://www.razorservers.com/solutions/dedicated-servers/pricing/">http://www.razorservers.com/solutions/dedicated-servers/pricing/</A> +so a server with the same spec as alamut is around 200$ for a more +classic provider. + +I found this +<A HREF="http://www.server4you.com/root-server/server-details.php?products=3">http://www.server4you.com/root-server/server-details.php?products=3</A> +would make 85$ ( since there is setup fee for each month ). Server4you +is more like OVh. + +and several others where the price is more around 150$ than 100$. + +And of course, most of them have metered network connections that would +maybe not be suitable for something like valstar, who act as a primary +mirror. For reference, since we have started the server : + +RX bytes:453228974131 (422.1 GiB) +TX bytes:9311461347504 (8.4 TiB) + +Uptime is 60 days. +That's around 4 T per month of transfert. + +That's for alamut, to compare : +RX bytes:30792994686 (28.6 GiB) +TX bytes:215624995862 (200.8 GiB) + +While hosters often propose "unlimited transfer", most don't, and most +use unlimited in the same way that phone providers do. So we need to be +wary on this point if we want to go further in the cost analysis. + +><i> C. various questions: +</I>><i> * could both above documentation (A and B) be maintained through changes; +</I> +That depend on how they will be done, but I do not foresee someone +volunteering for that, and since puppet informations are not sufficient +to express that in a automated manner ( there is support for graphing +deps between modules but not inter servers ), I doubt to see it being +written soon. + +Nagios do support doing some form of graphs, but we already have a +working monitoring system, and there is some more important stuff to do +before changing it ( for example, making sure that the current one is +read by people by reducing the amount of crap sent on the ml, and this +would requires someone fixing #4591, among others ) + +><i> * would it be possible to have the systems hosting our services to +</I>><i> have a prefix in their fqdn with the city/country they are located in? +</I>><i> Goal: being more explicit about where a service is located at this +</I>><i> time, so that a $ host www.mageia.org can answer me something like +</I>><i> champagne.paris.fr.mageia.org - for instance. I don't mean to change +</I>><i> all that, but I'm wondering about the opportunity. +</I> +What problem would it solve ? + +The grouping of servers is already visible on xymon.mageia.org : +<A HREF="http://xymon.mageia.org/xymon/servers/servers.html">http://xymon.mageia.org/xymon/servers/servers.html</A> + +I pondered on adding support this in puppet for that, but in the end, I +didn't found any good reason to do that for now ( would help if we have +enough server, to setup ntp based on d-c, bastion server acl, etc, but +we are not there yet ). + +><i> * what do you think about maintaining a separate blog (for +</I>><i> opening/closing tickets + a global summary of what xymon provides +</I>><i> already) under status.mageia.org (or maybe a different domain, for +</I>><i> that matter)? (something similar to status.twitter.com) +</I> +Again, that solve none of our problems at all. + +That solve a problem for a startup when they want to say "we care about +our customer, we give access to some form of monitoring", but we do +already give full access to our monitoring, so that would be redundant. + +Now, maybe the current access is not nice enough, and I am sure we can +do some css work to enhance that, but as a aesthetic issue, I would not +make this a priority. + +And I have seen no one saying that the current blog is not enough. If +people do not read it, they will not read another web site. +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="004356.html">[Mageia-sysadm] questions about our infrastructure setup & costs +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="004359.html">[Mageia-sysadm] questions about our infrastructure setup & costs +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#4357">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#4357">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#4357">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#4357">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-sysadm">More information about the Mageia-sysadm +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |