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+ <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience</H1>
+ <B>Pierre Jarillon</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20review%20with%20bad%20experience&In-Reply-To=%3C201110140859.09982.jarillon%40abul.org%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience">jarillon at abul.org
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Fri Oct 14 08:59:09 CEST 2011</I>
+ <P><UL>
+
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+<PRE>Le lundi 10 octobre 2011 23:29:08, Michael Scherer a &#233;crit :
+&gt;<i> With the problem of having experienced people leaving, because &quot;mandrake
+</I>&gt;<i> is a distribution for newbie, i am not a newbie, therefor, mandrake is
+</I>&gt;<i> not for me&quot;. This surely helped debian or fedora to get contributers.
+</I>
+IMO, there is another reason, a lack of documentation.
+When something goes wrong, it is very difficult to understand how it should
+work.
+Some examples:
+- printing
+- video configuration
+- sound
+- security
+I saw people using chmod but it was back in the previous state. Those people
+ignore msec and MCC.
+- network : Generally, network configuration works perfectly but when
+something wrong happens it is now rather complicated to do something.
+
+Mageia (and Mandriva) are more and more complicated. Thus, the number of
+people able to debug and make a patch continuously decreases.
+An accurate documentation is necessary.
+
+--
+Pierre Jarillon - <A HREF="http://pjarillon.free.fr/">http://pjarillon.free.fr/</A>
+Vice-pr&#233;sident de l'ABUL : <A HREF="http://abul.org/">http://abul.org/</A>
+Microsoft est &#224; l'informatique ce que McDonald est &#224; la gastronomie.
+</PRE>
+
+
+
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+ <H1>[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion</H1>
+ <B>Marc Par&#233;</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20TV%20Card%20and%20Web%20camera%20confusion&In-Reply-To=%3Cj78tad%24st2%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion">marc at marcpare.com
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Fri Oct 14 10:53:32 CEST 2011</I>
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+<PRE>Le 2011-10-13 14:23, Renaud MICHEL a &#233;crit :
+&gt;<i> On jeudi 13 octobre 2011 at 20:07, Marc Par&#233; wrote :
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> I have a TV card (PCI) and a USB webcam. If I restart my Mageia, the TV
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> card no longer works. I then have to go into TVtime.xml (I use TV time
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> to view my TV) and then modify this line that I have included in the
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> file:
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &lt;option name=&quot;V4LDevice&quot; value=&quot;/dev/video0&quot;/&gt;
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> or
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &lt;option name=&quot;V4LDevice&quot; value=&quot;/dev/video1&quot;/&gt;
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Is there anyway to prevent the video call from changing at reboots?
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> I just bought a webcam for my 78 year old mother with the same TV card
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> and I wouldn't want her to go through the same procedure each time she
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> re-boots her Mageia.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> You can probably make the name permanent with udev rules.
+</I>&gt;<i> See in
+</I>&gt;<i> /etc/udev/rules.d
+</I>&gt;<i> you should have permanent-cd and permanent-net rules files which you can
+</I>&gt;<i> look for examples. Add a new .rules file with your own rules.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> For an USB device it may look like (on an single line)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> SUBSYSTEM==&quot;usb&quot;, ATTR{idVendor}==&quot;0000&quot;, ATTR{idProduct}==&quot;0000&quot;,
+</I>&gt;<i> NAME=&quot;video1&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I am not sure how it will be for a PCI card, I am not an udev expert, see
+</I>&gt;<i> man udev for more informations.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+Merci Renaud, but,
+
+I would think that having a webcam and TV card should not be made this
+difficult for a normal user to configure. I am hoping that Mageia could
+somehow figure these things out on its own or at least have a help file
+somewhere to walk a user through this.
+
+Marc
+
+</PRE>
+
+
+
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+ <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience</H1>
+ <B>TJ</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20review%20with%20bad%20experience&In-Reply-To=%3Cj79h18%248lo%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience">andrewsfarm at gmail.com
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Fri Oct 14 16:30:00 CEST 2011</I>
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+<PRE>On 10/14/2011 02:59 AM, Pierre Jarillon wrote:
+&gt;<i> Le lundi 10 octobre 2011 23:29:08, Michael Scherer a &#233;crit :
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> With the problem of having experienced people leaving, because &quot;mandrake
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> is a distribution for newbie, i am not a newbie, therefor, mandrake is
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> not for me&quot;. This surely helped debian or fedora to get contributers.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> IMO, there is another reason, a lack of documentation.
+</I>&gt;<i> When something goes wrong, it is very difficult to understand how it should
+</I>&gt;<i> work.
+</I>&gt;<i> Some examples:
+</I>&gt;<i> - printing
+</I>&gt;<i> - video configuration
+</I>&gt;<i> - sound
+</I>&gt;<i> - security
+</I>&gt;<i> I saw people using chmod but it was back in the previous state. Those people
+</I>&gt;<i> ignore msec and MCC.
+</I>&gt;<i> - network : Generally, network configuration works perfectly but when
+</I>&gt;<i> something wrong happens it is now rather complicated to do something.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Mageia (and Mandriva) are more and more complicated. Thus, the number of
+</I>&gt;<i> people able to debug and make a patch continuously decreases.
+</I>&gt;<i> An accurate documentation is necessary.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>I'd second that. I've been stumbling around Linux since 2002, making
+conclusions on how things work based on my own observations, only to
+later learn that I was completely, utterly wrong. I have been told that
+I should learn this or study that, but quite frankly I do not have the
+time - or the inclination - to do so.
+
+My skill set no longer includes the necessary coding skills to do
+debugging or write patches in modern systems, and at my age that's not
+likely to change. But it would be nice to have at least some
+documentation on how things work, so that I could make the simple
+configuration adjustments that I need to make to do the things I want to
+do without maneuvering through a maze of dead ends and false paths. I'm
+thinking of something deeper than a newbie-type &quot;Getting To Know Mageia&quot;
+manual, yet less than a developer's programming manual.
+
+The trouble is, I was once a programmer myself, for ancient systems in
+ancient languages no longer used much, and I know that most programmers
+hate writing documentation. Programmers are human, too. They want to do
+the fun stuff. And when you aren't required to do it by force of losing
+your job, you tend avoid the stuff that isn't fun to do.
+
+TJ
+
+</PRE>
+
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+ <H1>[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion</H1>
+ <B>Renaud MICHEL</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20TV%20Card%20and%20Web%20camera%20confusion&In-Reply-To=%3C201110141752.32473.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion">r.h.michel+mageia at gmail.com
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Fri Oct 14 17:52:32 CEST 2011</I>
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+<PRE>On vendredi 14 octobre 2011 at 10:53, Marc Par&#233; wrote :
+&gt;<i> I would think that having a webcam and TV card should not be made this
+</I>&gt;<i> difficult for a normal user to configure. I am hoping that Mageia could
+</I>&gt;<i> somehow figure these things out on its own or at least have a help file
+</I>&gt;<i> somewhere to walk a user through this.
+</I>
+Actually, your case is quite strange, I thought the PCI bus was always
+probed before USB, so the PCI card should always get the first device.
+
+Actually, I see in /lib/udev/rules.d a file 60-persistent-v4l.rules, so it
+seems there is already something to write persistent rules for video
+devices.
+If I understand it correctly, it should generate symlinks in /dev/v4l/by-id
+and /dev/v4l/by-path, so maybe you should use those links which are supposed
+to always point to the same device regardless of its actual numbering.
+
+--
+Renaud Michel
+</PRE>
+
+
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+ <H1>[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m</H1>
+ <B>Florian Hubold</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20HP%20Photosmart%20Plus%20b209a-m&In-Reply-To=%3C4E985BAB.9000306%40arcor.de%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m">doktor5000 at arcor.de
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Fri Oct 14 17:56:27 CEST 2011</I>
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+<PRE>Am 13.10.2011 22:10, schrieb Gary Montalbine:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> On 10/12/2011 04:30 AM, Florian Hubold wrote:
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Am 26.09.2011 16:33, schrieb Gary Montalbine:
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> On 09/26/2011 09:32 AM, Frank Griffin wrote:
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> On 09/26/2011 08:14 AM, Gary Montalbine wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> I am using an HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m. It prints a darker red than
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> what is in the actual photo.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> Gary
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> For your color problems, could you please try to remove all hplip and
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> cups packages,
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> clear your /etc/cups/printers.conf and reinstall cups, and try a manual
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> install of hplip according to
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/install/manual/distros/other.html">http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/install/manual/distros/other.html</A>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> This would rule if the problem could be in our packages.
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I have spent several hours trying to manually install hplip using the
+</I>&gt;<i> referenced website. It does not work for me. I can not get past ./configure.
+</I>&gt;<i> If hplip works in ML2010.2 why doesn't it work in Mageia?
+</I>&gt;<i> Sorry I could not help.
+</I>&gt;<i> Gary
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>Maybe easiest thing is to do the following:
+urpmi --buildrequires
+<A HREF="ftp://ftp.mandrivauser.de/mirrors/Mageia/distrib/1/SRPMS/core/updates/hplip-3.11.7-1.2.mga1.src.rpm">ftp://ftp.mandrivauser.de/mirrors/Mageia/distrib/1/SRPMS/core/updates/hplip-3.11.7-1.2.mga1.src.rpm</A>
+(You can also use another mirror if you prefer) This should install all
+required packages to get hplip to install.
+
+The problem is, if i don't know WHY hplip does not work for you on Mageia,
+this simply means i can't fix it. Simple as that. This is why i'm trying to
+help you
+find out the cause of the problem.
+</PRE>
+
+
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+ <H1>[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m</H1>
+ <B>Gary Montalbine</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20HP%20Photosmart%20Plus%20b209a-m&In-Reply-To=%3C4E9872C9.5010001%40cox.net%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m">gmontalbine at cox.net
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Fri Oct 14 19:35:05 CEST 2011</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>
+
+On 10/14/2011 11:56 AM, Florian Hubold wrote:
+&gt;<i> Am 13.10.2011 22:10, schrieb Gary Montalbine:
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> On 10/12/2011 04:30 AM, Florian Hubold wrote:
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> Am 26.09.2011 16:33, schrieb Gary Montalbine:
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> On 09/26/2011 09:32 AM, Frank Griffin wrote:
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> On 09/26/2011 08:14 AM, Gary Montalbine wrote:
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> I am using an HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m. It prints a darker red than
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> what is in the actual photo.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> Gary
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> For your color problems, could you please try to remove all hplip and
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> cups packages,
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> clear your /etc/cups/printers.conf and reinstall cups, and try a manual
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> install of hplip according to
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/install/manual/distros/other.html">http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/install/manual/distros/other.html</A>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> This would rule if the problem could be in our packages.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> I have spent several hours trying to manually install hplip using the
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> referenced website. It does not work for me. I can not get past
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> ./configure. If hplip works in ML2010.2 why doesn't it work in Mageia?
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Sorry I could not help.
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Gary
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Maybe easiest thing is to do the following:
+</I>&gt;<i> urpmi --buildrequires
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="ftp://ftp.mandrivauser.de/mirrors/Mageia/distrib/1/SRPMS/core/updates/hplip-3.11.7-1.2.mga1.src.rpm">ftp://ftp.mandrivauser.de/mirrors/Mageia/distrib/1/SRPMS/core/updates/hplip-3.11.7-1.2.mga1.src.rpm</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> (You can also use another mirror if you prefer) This should install all
+</I>&gt;<i> required packages to get hplip to install.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> The problem is, if i don't know WHY hplip does not work for you on Mageia,
+</I>&gt;<i> this simply means i can't fix it. Simple as that. This is why i'm trying
+</I>&gt;<i> to help you
+</I>&gt;<i> find out the cause of the problem.
+</I>
+Did the above urpmi. Tried the hplip-web manual install using mandriva
+instructions since Mageia is not listed. Did ./configure plus a bunch of
+stuff. Ended up in an apparent vi file. This has happened each time I
+ran ./configure. Had no idea what to do with it. Closed it and tried a
+&quot;Make&quot;. Got Make: Nothing to be done for &quot;all&quot;.
+
+Appreciate your help. Gary
+
+
+</PRE>
+
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+ <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Oct 14 08:59:09 CEST 2011</i><br>
+ <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Oct 14 19:35:05 CEST 2011</i><br>
+ <b>Messages:</b> 6<p>
+ <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005667.html">[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m
+</A><A NAME="5667">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Florian Hubold
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005663.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience
+</A><A NAME="5663">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Jarillon
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005666.html">[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion
+</A><A NAME="5666">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Renaud MICHEL
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005668.html">[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m
+</A><A NAME="5668">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Gary Montalbine
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005664.html">[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion
+</A><A NAME="5664">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Marc Par&#233;
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005665.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience
+</A><A NAME="5665">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>TJ
+</I>
+
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Fri Oct 14 19:35:05 CEST 2011</i><br>
+ <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Oct 14 19:35:15 CEST 2011</i>
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+ <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005663.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience
+</A><A NAME="5663">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Jarillon
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005664.html">[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion
+</A><A NAME="5664">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Marc Par&#233;
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005665.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience
+</A><A NAME="5665">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>TJ
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005666.html">[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion
+</A><A NAME="5666">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Renaud MICHEL
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005667.html">[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m
+</A><A NAME="5667">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Florian Hubold
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005668.html">[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m
+</A><A NAME="5668">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Gary Montalbine
+</I>
+
+ </ul>
+ <p>
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+ <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005667.html">[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m
+</A><A NAME="5667">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Florian Hubold
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005668.html">[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m
+</A><A NAME="5668">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Gary Montalbine
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005663.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience
+</A><A NAME="5663">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Jarillon
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005665.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience
+</A><A NAME="5665">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>TJ
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005664.html">[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion
+</A><A NAME="5664">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Marc Par&#233;
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="005666.html">[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion
+</A><A NAME="5666">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Renaud MICHEL
+</I>
+
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Fri Oct 14 19:35:05 CEST 2011</i><br>
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+ <ul>
+
+<!--0 01318575549- -->
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+</A><A NAME="5663">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Jarillon
+</I>
+
+<UL>
+<!--1 01318575549-01318602600- -->
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+</A><A NAME="5665">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>TJ
+</I>
+
+</UL>
+<!--0 01318582412- -->
+<LI><A HREF="005664.html">[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion
+</A><A NAME="5664">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Marc Par&#233;
+</I>
+
+<UL>
+<!--1 01318582412-01318607552- -->
+<LI><A HREF="005666.html">[Mageia-discuss] TV Card and Web camera confusion
+</A><A NAME="5666">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Renaud MICHEL
+</I>
+
+</UL>
+<!--0 01318607787- -->
+<LI><A HREF="005667.html">[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m
+</A><A NAME="5667">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Florian Hubold
+</I>
+
+<UL>
+<!--1 01318607787-01318613705- -->
+<LI><A HREF="005668.html">[Mageia-discuss] HP Photosmart Plus b209a-m
+</A><A NAME="5668">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Gary Montalbine
+</I>
+
+</UL>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Fri Oct 14 19:35:05 CEST 2011</i><br>
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