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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101219/003268.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101219/003268.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..87d46c020 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101219/003268.html @@ -0,0 +1,157 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mandriva breakage warning *** important *** + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mandriva%20breakage%20warning%20%2A%2A%2A%20important%20%2A%2A%2A&In-Reply-To=%3C20101219012949.GF18333%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="003269.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="003270.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mandriva breakage warning *** important ***</H1> + <B>Michael scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mandriva%20breakage%20warning%20%2A%2A%2A%20important%20%2A%2A%2A&In-Reply-To=%3C20101219012949.GF18333%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mandriva breakage warning *** important ***">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 19 02:29:49 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="003269.html">[Mageia-discuss] Habemus logo +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="003270.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mandriva breakage warning *** important *** +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#3268">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#3268">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#3268">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#3268">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 10:04:06PM +0100, Juergen Harms wrote: +><i> I perfectly agree with what you say, and I agree that this list is +</I>><i> suffering from an excessive amount of messages. +</I> +Well, you agree, yet you seems to disagree with my reasoning :/ + +I do not say there is too much messages in general. I say that we must +not be seen as "ex mandriva" for a question of reputation that we do not +want to carry. + +><i> Formally: I forwarded an urgent warning of common interest to +</I>><i> colleagues and used the only channel available - no "discussion" +</I>><i> about Mandriva at all. What - quote - "Mandriva mailing list" do you +</I>><i> refer to? +</I> +<A HREF="https://ml.mandriva.net/wws/info/newbie">https://ml.mandriva.net/wws/info/newbie</A> +<A HREF="https://ml.mandriva.net/wws/info/expert">https://ml.mandriva.net/wws/info/expert</A> + +You can get archives of the list here : +<A HREF="http://lists.mandriva.com/">http://lists.mandriva.com/</A> + +><i> You did not get the point: +</I>><i> 1. Installing the latest updates from Mandriva threatens to make +</I>><i> people lose substantial time +</I> +The update have been removed, and symlink have been added +according to the bug report : +<A HREF="https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=61941">https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=61941</A> + +><i> 2. The Mandriva forum - the proper place to broadcast such a warning +</I>><i> - is down +</I> +No. at least not at this moment and from here. It was even upgraded. + +And even if it was down, I do not think this list is here to palliate +Mandriva lack of infrastructure. + +><i> 3. The large majority of people on this Mageia list use Mandriva and +</I>><i> are concerned by this issue. +</I> +Well, +1) not everybody use Mandriva +2) not everybody use Mandriva 2010.1 +3) not everybody use Mandriva 2010.1 with the default set of mirror +4) not everybody use Mandriva 2010.1 with the default set of mirror without +reading forums, cooker ml or without knowing what is going. + +And the fact is that you are expressing exactly the sterotype that I think we should +avoid because it would hurt our reputation, ie seeing us mainly as "Mandriva users" +despites having no data, that's just a supposition ( likely true, but yet +unproven ). + +If we start to act this way and see ourselves as Mandriva users, then others people +outside of the community will see us like this too. And when we will start to speak +of Mageia, they will only remember "oh, but they are mandriva users". +Because the image you have of your community is the one you send to others. + +So if we want to be seen as something else than Mandriva users, if we really want +our independance, we need to act accordingly. And the sooner we start, the sooner +it will have a impact, and so the better it is. + +You know, changes mind take time. +People still talk to me of mandrake, 5 years after the distribution changed + name. So if we want to be seen as different, I see no reason to not start now. + +And we need to be seen as different, because we need to overcome Mandriva bad +reputation ( like this update, for example, or the general bad mood due +to various budget cut etc ). The question is not if the reputation is deserved +or not ( because I think it is not, at least not for everything ). But the +fact is it exist, and that I think we want to avoid it. + +><i> So ??? Do you really expect that I just watch smilingly how people +</I>><i> whom I estimate and who devote a tremendous amount of time to build +</I>><i> Mageia risk to waste their time? +</I> +Well, so far, the people who devote a tremendous amount of time are either +perfectly able to manage the problem, or do not use Mandriva 2010.1 with the +default set of mirrors without knowing what happens. + +At least, I am, and I think every possible people who devote a lot of time +at this moment I can think of to fall in one of this 2 category. + +So have no fear, we can manage. You cannot decide to fork a distribution without +at least some basic survival skills on Linux based system. + +><i> I understand that doing things in an organised way is essential, but +</I>><i> following principles blindly is just as bad has not considering +</I>><i> principles at all! +</I> +That's not a question of organisation or principle. I have +given what I think to be a constructed reasoning, but maybe there is lots +of things that I think obvious that are not for you, sorry about that. + +Yes, and I know you wanted to help. That's even one of the first thing I said. + +But I think it would help more to really see us as separate from Mandriva. +I cannot force people, but I think I can at least try to convince. + +-- +Michael Scherer +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="003269.html">[Mageia-discuss] Habemus logo +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="003270.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mandriva breakage warning *** important *** +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#3268">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#3268">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#3268">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#3268">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |