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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101105/002904.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101105/002904.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ebf8170ea --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101105/002904.html @@ -0,0 +1,185 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD39C6B.3090803%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002902.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002907.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD39C6B.3090803%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Nov 5 06:55:55 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002902.html">[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002907.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2904">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2904">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2904">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2904">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> +</I>><i> * andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Donald Stewart a écrit : +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> On 1 November 2010 10:24, Marc Paré<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Le 2010-11-01 06:00, Philippe DIDIER a écrit : +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Using delta rpms would reduce the size of the updates, or has my lack +</I>>>><i> of understanding of delta roms got in the way? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> Delta rpms, relative to the latest distro release, are long overdue. +</I>>><i> (And not only in the Mandriva world. Also for Mozilla, OpenOffice, etc.) +</I>>><i> Note that for much commercial software, updates are normally delta. +</I>>><i> Such updates are often erroneously called patches. +</I>>><i> This may be partly a limitation of rpm packages, or more the programs +</I>>><i> that install/update such packages. If so, it should be a priority to +</I>>><i> correct this lack. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> The problem of delta rpm is the work need to generated alls delta and +</I>><i> the space need on mirrors to host everything. +</I>><i> We must provide delta for each version to the next one: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - main foo-1 +</I>><i> - upd foo-2 D: 1->2 +</I>><i> foo-3 D: 2->3 and 1->3 ? +</I>><i> foo-4 D: 3->4 and 1->4, 2->4 ? +</I>><i> +</I>I would make all delta updates relative to the distro release, i.e. +- main = foo-1 +- upd_full = foo-2, foo-3, foo-4, etc +- upd_delta = foo-1>2, foo-1>3, foo-1>4, etc +without foo 2>3, 2>4, 3>4 +(so half as many, with 3 updates.) + +Note that the idea is to retain full update packages, the delta updates +being a file-by-file diff of contained files (probably in their own +repository). +><i> etc... +</I>><i> What if delta 1->4 is bigger than the package itself ? and for 2->4 ? +</I>><i> +</I>Highly improbable, as I conceive it. +If foo-1.rpm contains files fooa foob fooc food, and only foob changes +to foob', +then full foo-2.rpm contains files fooa foob' fooc food +and delta foo-2d.rpm contains only file foob', with the info that this +replaces foob. +And of course with this model, there is no 2->4. +><i> Delta rpm is hard to manage (any volunteer to write the tools to manage +</I>><i> this ?) and as bonus, I am not sure it is still compatible with our +</I>><i> current rpm... +</I>><i> +</I>To create a delta rpm, one only needs the new full version (or the +proposed contents), and a script which automatically includes the new +files with the references to those replaced. +I'm not trying to say it is simple to write - especially since I +understand that the current tools are written in Perl - which has a +syntax which I barely understand. +But I'd be interested in contributing to my ability. + +You are quite likely right about compatibility with current rpm +However we need to enhance the rpm tools (rpmdrake, etc), so I think +this is good to investigate at the same time. +><i> +</I>>><i> However, the idea of update ISOs is good as well. +</I>>><i> This could be facilitated by the option of downloading the latest update +</I>>><i> for each package of the release not already present in the download +</I>>><i> destination (and preferably removing outdated updates). +</I>>><i> There is already an option for Rpmdrake to not erase downloaded packages. +</I>>><i> (Unfortunately one must manually edit a configuration file to select it, +</I>>><i> but that can easily be corrected.) +</I>>><i> It also would be useful to have the option to change the download +</I>>><i> destination. +</I>>><i> With these changes, creating an update ISO would be only a matter of +</I>>><i> copying the contents of the update directory to an ISO. +</I>>><i> Of course, an utility to directly create an update ISO from the +</I>>><i> repository would be useful, but the advantage of the above approach is +</I>>><i> that a moderately limited bandwidth user could download updates as +</I>>><i> produced (that is over an extended period), and produce complete update +</I>>><i> ISOs for others at any time. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Just think we don't have an infinite space on mirror. Even the sound +</I>><i> good, please try to estimated the cost it can be per release. +</I>><i> +</I>I agree it would take more space on mirrors, but as full updates take +much less space than the release, +delta updates would take considerably less space the full updates. +Also, the lower bandwidth to download for users would also benefit the +mirrors. + +The full updates would still be useful for those who download a package +for the first time. +But maybe ... if we arrive at a reliable delta update system, it might +be a good idea -- longer term -- to only use delta updates. If someone +installed a new package for which an update existed, the release package ++ update could be transparently (to the user) downloaded together. +Of course, there are a lot of factors to consider ... +Downloading both would take more bandwidth, but most of the time that +wouldn't be needed, and the mirrors would save some space (not stocking +full updates) ... + +BTW, regarding is download, I am thinking for a long time we must +provide par2 parity files. It can help low bandwidth to end download. +<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive</A> + +Thanks for the reference. That is a really good idea. Before I got +slow DSL, that was a big problem. So it would help a lot of low +bandwidth users. + +my 2 cents :) + +- André + + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002902.html">[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002907.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2904">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2904">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2904">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2904">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |