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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101027/002693.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101027/002693.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6d2bc9a97 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101027/002693.html @@ -0,0 +1,266 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia-discuss Digest, Vol 2, Issue 119 Package descriptions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia-discuss%20Digest%2C%20Vol%202%2C%0A%09Issue%20119%20%20Package%20descriptions&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC76022.6040305%40ben-armbruster.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002703.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002706.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia-discuss Digest, Vol 2, Issue 119 Package descriptions</H1> + <B>Ben</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia-discuss%20Digest%2C%20Vol%202%2C%0A%09Issue%20119%20%20Package%20descriptions&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC76022.6040305%40ben-armbruster.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia-discuss Digest, Vol 2, Issue 119 Package descriptions">ben-laptop at ben-armbruster.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Oct 27 01:11:30 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002703.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002706.html">[Mageia-discuss] what aabout an automated way of doing it? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2693">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2693">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2693">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2693">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 10/25/2010 01:58 AM, <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss-request at mageia.org</A> wrote: +><i> Send Mageia-discuss mailing list submissions to +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss at mageia.org</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss</A> +</I>><i> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss-request at mageia.org</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You can reach the person managing the list at +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss-owner at mageia.org</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific +</I>><i> than "Re: Contents of Mageia-discuss digest..." +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Today's Topics: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1. Re: Suggestions (Marc Par?) +</I>><i> 2. Re: Suggestions (Ahmad Samir) +</I>><i> 3. Re: Suggestions (Luca Berra) +</I>><i> 4. Re: network balancing by default (Luca Berra) +</I>><i> 5. Re: network balancing by default (Maarten Vanraes) +</I>><i> 6. Re: network balancing by default (Maarten Vanraes) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Message: 1 +</I>><i> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 00:31:21 -0400 +</I>><i> From: Marc Par?<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>> +</I>><i> To: <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss at mageia.org</A> +</I>><i> Subject: Re: [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</I>><i> Message-ID:<ia316p$26i$<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">1 at dough.gmane.org</A>> +</I>><i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Le 2010-10-25 00:12, Kira a ?crit : +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> ? Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:59:25 +0800, Marc Par?<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>>??: +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I think that it is pretty clear that packagers don't really want to +</I>>>><i> deal with updating description, but the users would like to have +</I>>>><i> updated descriptions. So, what if there was a group of users in charge +</I>>>><i> of updating the package descriptions/translations where needed? Would +</I>>>><i> this work? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> The problem is that currently if we want to translate the description, then +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> we have to modify the SPEC of the RPM, which can only be done with +</I>>><i> packager. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Like the previous messages, we have 2 methods to choose: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> 1 .po files for 1 package +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> or +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> 1 .po files for multiple packages +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> The first one would cause many .po files to maintain, while the other +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> cause the maintainence hard( too complicate). +</I>>><i> ==== +</I>>><i> I think maybe a more aggresive way is better: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Make the detailed description available only for programs, not packages. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Currently the RPMDRAKE is packages based, which is hard for newbies to find +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> programs they need and the amount of the description need to maintain +</I>>><i> also scares +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> everyone off. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> The "Programs with GUI" option is the first step, but I think we should +</I>>><i> step further, +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> let people install programs, not packages. Therefore, we can ease both +</I>>><i> the difficulty +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> of maintain descriptions and installation harsh. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Ah! I guess my choice of words. I am still finding my way around the +</I>><i> jargon. I would have meant all of this for software. Yes. This would all +</I>><i> make sense. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I agree with you. And as stated earlier, often the description has been +</I>><i> updated on the programme's website and there is little fiddling around +</I>><i> to include it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I also believe that we should try to help the devs as much as possible +</I>><i> and make their work as much as "developer" by nature as possible. We can +</I>><i> take care of the more mundane tasks for them. Let's let them code to +</I>><i> their heart's delight and we will just gain more from their hard and +</I>><i> generous work. Just as they will with us. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> BTW, in my opinion, the default GUI setting in the MCC was not a right +</I>><i> choice. It excluded too many pieces of software for users. I usually +</I>><i> recommended people to select the "All" setting, and from there to search +</I>><i> for the ideal programme. There are just not enough GUI packages in the +</I>><i> repos to make it fun in that particular sections. Everything should be +</I>><i> available to the user. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Marc +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> ------------------------------ +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Message: 2 +</I>><i> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 07:42:49 +0200 +</I>><i> From: Ahmad Samir<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com</A>> +</I>><i> To: Mageia general discussions<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss at mageia.org</A>> +</I>><i> Subject: Re: [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</I>><i> Message-ID: +</I>><i> <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">AANLkTikoW1ZvJ26Gq8bBWzEjKzvpcZ9D_Ouy33bcZFh5 at mail.gmail.com</A>> +</I>><i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On 25 October 2010 02:19, Wayne Sallee<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">Wayne at waynesallee.com</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Michael Scherer wrote on 10/23/2010 08:52 PM: +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Le dimanche 24 octobre 2010 ? ?02:09 +0200, Tux99 a ??crit : +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Come on... the effort of adding a decent description is minimal for a +</I>>>>><i> packager, the effort for a normal user of making a patch is much +</I>>>>><i> higher, this is not a very friendly answer towards the users... +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I think I demonstrated in the past that constant friendliness toward +</I>>>><i> users is not one of my distinctive characteristics. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> The patch arguent is invalid, because people can also send mail, like +</I>>>><i> "here is a better description of package $FOO because I didn't +</I>>>><i> understood the current one and I wanted to help". +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> So while sending a email and finding the packager email can be hard for +</I>>>><i> some people, I doubt that sending a email is hard for everybody. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> If writing a decent description is easy and almost effortless, and if +</I>>>><i> sending a email is easy, then what is difficult into doing both ? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> I agree that it is only logical to contribute by e-mailing the packager +</I>>><i> about an improvement need in the package, but some packagers don't want you +</I>>><i> e-mailing them about their package. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> As a community distro, we want to try to make it comfortable and easy for +</I>>><i> everyone to get involved. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Knowing that many packagers are not going to want you e-mailing them about +</I>>><i> their package, reduces the number of people that will take the time to +</I>>><i> e-mail them with such contribution. Of course what makes it easier for one, +</I>>><i> makes it harder for another, so there needs to be balance there. Sometimes +</I>>><i> our expectations are expecting too much from the other who is working a lot +</I>>><i> of thankless hours to keep the distro going. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> It's all about balance and efficiency, and making it easy for people to +</I>>><i> start contributing, and realizing that some jobs are more time consuming +</I>>><i> than we might think. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Developing systems and protocols help keep things running efficient, and +</I>>><i> moving forward. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Wayne Sallee +</I>>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">Wayne at WayneSallee.com</A> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, using bugzilla is usually better; an advantage of filing a bug +</I>><i> report over sending a personal email is that the bug gets more +</I>><i> exposure and any packager who has a bit of free time and can fix it +</I>><i> (especially if you're talking about just changing the package +</I>><i> description) will do so; i.e. the whole process becomes faster by +</I>><i> distributing the workload (especially not-too-invasive package +</I>><i> changes). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>Perhaps the packagers and the backporters (assuming we have any) should +have their own digest mailing list. The packagers are very busy but the +backporters (community members with the basic knowledge to make an RPM +from Cauldron) would be proud and happy to make sense of users package +description suggestions and pass on a heads up to the packager if a good +suggestion comes along. It would cut down on the noise that a true +packager would have to wade through and, once a relationship is +developed between a packager and a backporter, 'could' make the +packagers job somewhat easier while at the same time (assuming that the +backporters are good community members i.e. IRC, newbie and expert +mailing list etc.) give users an easily accessible point of contact for +regular users. I think users would appreciate this. Backporters would +be glad to be a part of both the user and dev community and packagers +would be able to participate in the community at the level they feel +they are able to without feeling that they are stretched thin. +While I'm on this subject. I think it might be a good idea to have +assigned backporters for packages or groups of packages. Just a thought. +benja22 + + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002703.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002706.html">[Mageia-discuss] what aabout an automated way of doing it? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2693">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2693">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2693">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2693">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |