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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101018/002471.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101018/002471.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0cd2226c0 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101018/002471.html @@ -0,0 +1,243 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010190906.07966.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002464.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002465.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection</H1> + <B>Graham Lauder</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20logo%20proposals%20and%20selection&In-Reply-To=%3C201010190906.07966.yorick_%40openoffice.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection">yorick_ at openoffice.org + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Oct 18 22:06:07 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002464.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002465.html">[Mageia-discuss] Positive Reinforcement +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2471">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2471">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2471">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2471">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Tuesday 19 Oct 2010 04:27:29 Frank Griffin wrote: +><i> Gustavo Giampaoli wrote: +</I>><i> > So, I'm sorry but I agree with the people who want to target this +</I>><i> > "ordinary people". Because I don't think that making Mageia easier and +</I>><i> > friendly hurt or damage advanced users. Linux will be always powerful, +</I>><i> > with the right packages. And any advanced user can make "urpmi +</I>><i> > my-advanced-packages" whenever he/she needs. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > We need to attract more non-linux users. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is getting very repetitive. Your argument, and the arguments of +</I>><i> those who argue your point of view all make perfect sense and flow +</I>><i> logically, *IF* you accept the premise that the mission of Mageia is to +</I>><i> entice computer-ignorant or computer-antagonistic people, or even just +</I>><i> non-linux newbies, to use Mageia. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This *might* be a given if Mageia was a company organized to make a +</I>><i> profit. But it's not. It's a group of primarily technical people who +</I>><i> decided to fork Mandriva because they felt that the technical excellence +</I>><i> of the distro was being compromised by Mandriva's corporate goals. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In a perfect world, where volunteer labor was in infinite supply, and +</I>><i> was paid solely in terms of satisfaction that what they achieved met +</I>><i> their own goals, a community distro would be built up of layers, each +</I>><i> building on the ones below it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Developers would not need to care about appealing to users on any level +</I>><i> other than providing needed function. They would produce non-GUI +</I>><i> components which had enough configurable options to satisfy anyone from +</I>><i> your grandma to Linus Torvalds. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Other developers who were so inclined would write GUI interfaces to +</I>><i> these services which exposed all of this flexibility, or most of it, or +</I>><i> some of it, or very little of it, depending on whether they were +</I>><i> producing a UI aimed at Linus or grandma or someone in between. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The same would go for installs: the base install would be componentized +</I>><i> and configurable and open, and interested parties would customize this +</I>><i> for a variety of target audiences. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The FOSS world isn't perfect, but only in the sense that the volunteer +</I>><i> labor supply isn't infinite. Without an infinite supply, the activities +</I>><i> that don't get performed for resource reasons will be determined by the +</I>><i> satisfaction metric - if the target audience isn't important enough to +</I>><i> some group of technical people to impel them to customize a UI and an +</I>><i> install (and documentation) for that target audience, then that audience +</I>><i> won't see their needs addressed. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In the corporate world, you have to make a profit. Because you have +</I>><i> limited resources, and because you can't risk basing your enterprise on +</I>><i> packages you don't control, you have to address all of the above tasks +</I>><i> with a finite pool of resources. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Because of that, you can't afford to design your distro to be +</I>><i> configurable and flexible enough to even *potentially* please every set +</I>><i> of target users. Since the number of target user groups determines the +</I>><i> amount of resource you need to satisfy them, it follows that you have to +</I>><i> limit that number in order to satisfy your chosen group or groups with +</I>><i> the resources you can afford. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is where marketing becomes invaluable; it uses quantitative +</I>><i> analyses to determine which target group(s) represent the greatest +</I>><i> potential for profit, and the result of those analyses will determine +</I>><i> what development works on, what the tools look like, and what the +</I>><i> install looks like. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If you accept that the marketing results must be correct, then it makes +</I>><i> no sense for development to build flexibility into software that will +</I>><i> never be used, or for the install team to allow for any install paradigm +</I>><i> that isn't directly oriented to your target user groups. Basically, +</I>><i> marketing drives the truck, and every group associated with production +</I>><i> centers their activity on marketing's objectives. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This minimizes development costs, and will produce the greatest profit +</I>><i> from the number of sales made. Developers are hired to do only that +</I>><i> work that supports marketing's directives, and the theory is that they +</I>><i> work primarily for the money. They are controlled by Marketing, which +</I>><i> derives its authority from the owners or shareholders ("stakeholders" to +</I>><i> use the fashionable economics term). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> ***That said***,,, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Mageia is not a company. We have no shareholders, and no financial hold +</I>><i> over the developers. No marketing group has directorial authority over +</I>><i> the developers, because there is no "stakeholder" group which can grant +</I>><i> that authority. No number of users suborned from Windows or Mac or +</I>><i> Ubuntu puts a penny into the pockets of anyone involved in Mageia. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Saying "we believe that a large number of users will switch to Mageia if +</I>><i> we limit our focus to such-and-such" is interesting and may even be +</I>><i> accurate. It is also immaterial, unless the validity of the statement +</I>><i> somehow gives you the authority to direct the actions of the others +</I>><i> involved in Mageia. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In FOSS, it doesn't. If enough people agree with your objective, you +</I>><i> may find that you have enough critical mass to produce a derived distro +</I>><i> with a face and personality which matches your objectives. +</I> +This is one of the interesting elements of FOSS marketing that I've talked +about in the past. That Marketing department, which in a corporate world +always has the ear of management more so than the Development people simply +because of human interaction capabilities, has to turn it's focus inward. The +problem is, an one I've been trying to avoid here, is that it becomes insular +to the exclusion of all else and then the community stagnates and spirals into +irrelevancy. For the community to grow there has to be a dynamism, (and I'm +talking grow in terms of the community of contributors) Userland is the big +billboard of that dynamism. Ubuntu for all it's faults and annoyances has +taught us one thing, high visibility in Userland attracts contributors. + +Now our problem in terms of a marketing group is to communicate that +particular thing to the core startup contributors and I don't mean the +Founders here, I mean that community that surrounded them at the start and who +shared the vision. + +Heh I was hoping to get the Values, Vision and mission sorted before having to +tackle that mission and on reflection I should have simply not have opened the +Target Markets discussion, but hey, in FOSS projects the thing you do is write +a to-do list, then throw it in the trash. + + +><i> +</I>><i> But to say that the entire community has to direct and/or limit their +</I>><i> efforts to your target group just because you can demonstrate that you +</I>><i> can wean them away from some other product ignores the fact that such a +</I>><i> goal may give no or even negative satisfaction to those expected to do +</I>><i> the technical work. That's not to say that they dispute your skills in +</I>><i> determining a target market, but simply that they derive no satisfaction +</I>><i> in doing or limiting their work to address that market. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Graham is fond of saying that "you can't be all things to all people", +</I>><i> but that's only true in the area of the spectrum where his skills come +</I>><i> into play. +</I> +True indeed + +><i> +</I>><i> In development, the entire concept of Software Architecture and +</I>><i> Component-Driven design is directed towards producing components with +</I>><i> enough flexibility to be configured for any possible use of the +</I>><i> functionality represented by that component. When not constrained by +</I>><i> the profit motive, development will produce flexible and adaptable +</I>><i> components, and rely on upstream integrators to tailor or limit their +</I>><i> function to a particular market. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In reality, this often aligns with the profit motive, since (oh horrors) +</I>><i> it actually may happen that Marketing is wrong, +</I> +Ahem *cough* never yer honour... no really. ;) + +><i> in which case the +</I>><i> company is at least left with saleable software assets as opposed to +</I>><i> software locked into a vision which didn't work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The significant costs of trying to be all things to all people, both in +</I>><i> resource cost and opportunity cost, come much further up the product +</I>><i> development chain, in QA, documentation, marketing, sales focus, and +</I>><i> other such non-development areas. That's where you have to decide which +</I>><i> way(s) to go, to the exclusion of others, not at the development layer. +</I> +That's all an excellent analyses Frank. The question, regarding this last +statement had occurred to me and I'd wondered out loud about when considering +the multiple focused markets concept, this adds clarity, thanks . + +The decision has already been made that the initial target market will be new +code contributors. + +Your analysis is sound and I suspect that any research would simply confirm +that, so looking at that, the marketing focus that gradually expands outward +would seem to be the path that works best to achieve longevity of the project. + +I am mindful, however that many of those you talk about up the chain in the +"desperately needed" categories: Docs and QA will come from user space. So +there will be a need to market here in any case. + +Thanks and +Cheers +GL + +-- +Graham Lauder, +OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ +<A HREF="http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html">http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html</A> + +OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant. + +INGOTs Assessor Trainer +(International Grades in Open Technologies) +www.theingots.org +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002464.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002465.html">[Mageia-discuss] Positive Reinforcement +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2471">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2471">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2471">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2471">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |