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[Was: forking mandriva] + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20%5BCooker%5D%20Re%3A%20Transparency%20%26%20open%20invitation%20to%0A%20a%20united%20foundation..%3F%20%5BWas%3A%20forking%20mandriva%5D&In-Reply-To=%3C20100922090229.GF7260%40mongueurs.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000675.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000677.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] [Cooker] Re: Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? [Was: forking mandriva]</H1> + <B>Jerome Quelin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20%5BCooker%5D%20Re%3A%20Transparency%20%26%20open%20invitation%20to%0A%20a%20united%20foundation..%3F%20%5BWas%3A%20forking%20mandriva%5D&In-Reply-To=%3C20100922090229.GF7260%40mongueurs.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] [Cooker] Re: Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? [Was: forking mandriva]">jquelin at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Sep 22 11:02:29 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000675.html">[Mageia-discuss] suggestion +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000677.html">[Mageia-discuss] [Cooker] Re: Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? [Was: forking mandriva] +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#661">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#661">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#661">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#661">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 10/09/21 21:49 +0200, Per Øyvind Karlsen wrote: +><i> > You will leave your newborn in the "hands" of the same company whose +</I>><i> > lack of direction caused this situation? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Maybe I'm a "little" paranoid, but i think we should listen +</I>><i> > ex-employes / developers. They know the sh*t from the very inside. +</I>><i> Ah, yes, two ex-employees / developers which were actively involved +</I>><i> with the development of the distribution over so many years.. Uh, oh, +</I>><i> wait, no they weren't. +</I>><i> I'm questioning whether they actually grasp all of the work required +</I>><i> to put together a distribution. I also find it odd when I see +</I>><i> statements from them on IRC which seems to be in conflict with others +</I>><i> involved with this that they intend on going in a different direction +</I>><i> independent of Mandriva. With all the people being brought aboard with +</I>><i> Mageia from the Mandriva Linux community, I find it hard to believe +</I>><i> that there has been established a consensus about this with all of the +</I>><i> people involved and that they really want to do everything on their +</I>><i> own and not care about keeping relations or anything with what they've +</I>><i> been involved with on actual community basis and over longer times +</I>><i> than either of these two.. +</I> +since you were not part of the discussion*s*, what you believe doesn't +really matter. i can tell you that there is a consensus to release a +community distribution. in fact, it was more of a consensus: it was the +stated goal around which the rest of the project was born. + + +><i> Are you guys *really* planning on doing the whole distribution on your +</I>><i> own totally independent of Mandriva without any interest of +</I>><i> collaborating? +</I> +yes. period. + + +><i> To me, these responses of Romain and Nicolas seems to confirm all the +</I>><i> questions I raised earlier in this thread, suggesting that the fork +</I>><i> and their motivations are personal and not out of concern and care for +</I>><i> the community, despite these motivations officially given. I guess +</I>><i> there's a reason for why they avoided these critical questions raised +</I>><i> towards them, and rather chose to attack constructive attempts at +</I>><i> doing what's in the best interest of the community in stead. +</I> +i am just a contributor, who was part of the discussions before the +launch of mageia. i am not a former mandriva/edge-it employee, but yet i +totally agree with the various opinions stated here: currently, mandriva +(the society) has failed to properly communicate with the community. we +were never aware of what was going on, what were the plans, what were +the goals, etc. + +please take that into account, and the frustration it created. + +now, do you really think that mandriva's ceo coming and saying "guys you +are right, let's create something together" is to be taken seriously? + +so, for now, i think that mageia should start alone. it might be more +difficult, but results will our owns, and what we'll manage to do from +this situation. and if mandriva is really gueniously interested in a +foundation, it will do whatever is needed to make sure mageia succeeds. +in one year from now, we'll have a better view on what's going on, and +if mandriva favors a real, independent community mentality (not to +mention the fact that nerves will have settle). + +that is: we will judge mandriva for what it's doing, not it's saying. +facts, not words. + + +><i> But sure, I've only been actively involved with the development of +</I>><i> this *community* distribution and on several other levels for a decade +</I>><i> now, being amongst those involved for the longest time, while also +</I>><i> being an ex-employee myself, I've primarily been active through the +</I>><i> community independent of my employment nor imposing personal feelings +</I>><i> towards company on the community. And I can also truly claim that I +</I>><i> have an absolute full understanding of all the work an complexity +</I>><i> involved in putting together the whole distribution and put tons of +</I>><i> more hours into this on my sparetime and out of interest for +</I>><i> contributing to the community, making me quite aware of the fact that +</I>><i> you'll have a pretty darn hard time doing this and organizing the +</I>><i> whole thing on your own. +</I> +good for you. + +but you know, this is a fork - we announced *our* decision, and people +join *if*they*want*. i did not handle a gun over people to force them to +come on various mageia mailing-lists and propose their help. it was +their choice. you may not agree, but please respect their choice. same +as i respect your choice: you prefer continuing with mandriva, fine. and +i won't come and try to convince you over and over: we're grown-ups, and +can make our opinion ourselve. + + +><i> In all these claims about this being a community project and it being +</I>><i> independent off people's employment and all, would you really find +</I>><i> disgruntled ex-employees which has only been involved in this project +</I>><i> through employment as the most trustworthy characters? How much time +</I>><i> do they actually plan to invest themself into this project on their +</I>><i> sparetime now that they're not employed by Mandriva? +</I> +this is none of your business. really. +they will speak about that if they want, but otherwise, please stay away +from their private life. + + +><i> I can't really start telling how provoked I am over seeing this +</I>><i> childish and truly community hostile attitude, or about the claims +</I>><i> about through the liquidation of Edge-IT all of the talents and +</I>><i> important people involved in development of the distribution +</I>><i> disappearing, guess what, the majority of the staff working on the +</I>><i> distribution for quite some time has actually been employed at +</I>><i> Conectiva, not Edge-IT! +</I> +once again: if you think it's better to follow up mandriva, then please +do so. what we did was community-friendly: after having understood that +a reconciliation could not be done at this moment, it's way better to +say "good-bye, we're going on our own", rather than rotting and +spreading bad will / mood in the project. + +and who knows, maybe there will be a reconciliation later on. but i can +tell you that it's not possible right now. trying to force a +reconciliation won't work - it doesn't work like that. + + +jérôme +-- +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">jquelin at gmail.com</A> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000675.html">[Mageia-discuss] suggestion +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000677.html">[Mageia-discuss] [Cooker] Re: Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? 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