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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20100922/000630.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20100922/000630.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8f66821dc --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20100922/000630.html @@ -0,0 +1,186 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Website software + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Website%20software&In-Reply-To=%3Ci7bkv5%24r5b%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000617.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000618.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Website software</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Website%20software&In-Reply-To=%3Ci7bkv5%24r5b%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Website software">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Sep 22 03:08:52 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000617.html">[Mageia-discuss] Website software +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000618.html">[Mageia-discuss] Joining +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#630">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#630">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#630">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#630">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-09-21 19:09, Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +><i> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 05:11, Diego Bello<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">dbello at gmail.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> I think Romain has a lot to say here. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> He knows the needs of the current Mandriva site so he can say +</I>>><i> if the best option is a CMS or a custom developed site (Symfony anybody?). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, yes and no. I can mostly relate what choice has been made at the time. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> We got several experiences with some CMSes that were not so good in that: +</I>><i> - web team was way too small to master the whole thing; +</I>><i> - editing pages was restricted by a limited set of templates; +</I>><i> especially, a CMS could now allow to edit inline HTML, so fine-tuning +</I>><i> the contents layout was a no-go; +</I>><i> - its ease-of-use for non-technical people was supposed to distribute +</I>><i> editorial responsibility within the organization; in fact, very few +</I>><i> people did it themselves, rather sent a mail to the webteam to +</I>><i> integrate an open office document; +</I>><i> - its ease-of-use was too to help for translation process; that was +</I>><i> partly true, it helped yes, to some extent (too small a team being the +</I>><i> culprit, he, but making this way harder to manage in the end); +</I>><i> - no dedicated or available skills to maintain it (so many nightmares +</I>><i> to fix common issues or upgrading it); +</I>><i> - performance issues under heavy loads; +</I>><i> - no apparent content strategy from one migration to the other +</I>><i> (broken links& redirection all around; missing contents; inconsistent +</I>><i> design across the whole domain, etc. but that's another topic, yet). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Not that I am complaining. These were great times and there were lots +</I>><i> of good things to learn from these CMSes too (maybe not stable enough +</I>><i> at the time or not properly mastered) but that was what was +</I>><i> experienced. Goal was to improve on this. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I think the most important feature here is internationalization, cause +</I>>><i> Mageia really needs to show itself to the world, and let me tell you +</I>>><i> the world doesn't speak English only. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Indeed. Now you have to take into account several things: +</I>><i> - you've got to decide whether you use a pivot language content tree +</I>><i> or leave several language trees evolve on their own; that is, having a +</I>><i> reference from which you translate/adapt everything, the process being +</I>><i> more or less fast depending on your translation team; or, having an +</I>><i> mutual agreement between all editors, and moving each language tree to +</I>><i> its own pace; for a start, I would suggest the former (ie, having a +</I>><i> reference tree to translate from), then adapt; +</I>><i> - translating, better, localizing a web site is not about only +</I>><i> translating chunks of text; you sometimes need to rework pictures, +</I>><i> labels, layouts, add/remove specific contents; so it may require +</I>><i> several basic webmastering skills (editing HTML, working on graphics, +</I>><i> understanding and coding CSS, bits of Javascript and so on); +</I>><i> - you've got to decide if you strive for a standard-looking website +</I>><i> or if you want to apply a specific look and be able to fine-tune +</I>><i> everything; again, that depends on your "global" web team capacity of +</I>><i> production and maintenance; +</I>><i> - coordination of the localization process of the website is a huge +</I>><i> task in itself; +</I>><i> - all your website does not necessarily have to rely on a single +</I>><i> solution; you can have a blog platform here, a static set of files +</I>><i> there, a drupal over there, a forum here, ad-hoc download platform +</I>><i> there, etc. it really depends on several parameters; +</I>><i> - questions to ask are: what does Mageia do? why? how do we organize +</I>><i> all this information? who produces/uses it? what should be the +</I>><i> user/visitor experience/goal? what's the best tool for that? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now, back at the time (it was first drafter in early 2007 and went +</I>><i> into prod in the fall of 2008), I wrote a very basic "decorator" web +</I>><i> framework that let me build and design standalone HTML/PHP pages +</I>><i> (against a set of CSS rules and a minimalist theme, to be revamped +</I>><i> later with a graphics designer - didn't happen, sadly) in the old-way: +</I>><i> files and directories. All this was versioned on a SVN (crucial part +</I>><i> of the system) to allow for collaborative webmastering (I wouldn't +</I>><i> call that editing as, again, it's not just updating chunks of text). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This was only for the main "institutional" website (aka www/www2) +</I>><i> where things are pretty static (a big update every 2 months or so, +</I>><i> plus gradual improvements in the meantime). Around this connected a +</I>><i> blog, a news feed (that could have been a blog), forums, wiki, +</I>><i> support, download, e-commerce platforms, etc. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It was far from perfect of course, but it was valid and working in +</I>><i> that context and back at the time because: +</I>><i> - content was mostly static; few areas needed to have dynamic +</I>><i> behaviour, and when it did, a small ad-hoc webapps system was +</I>><i> available to take on that job; +</I>><i> - so you didn't really benefit from having a database; +</I>><i> - it proved effective for deploying a standard look to most of the +</I>><i> distinct platforms, all from a single web service (top nav bar + basic +</I>><i> CSS rules); +</I>><i> - présupposé was that only webmaster-skilled people would manipulate +</I>><i> it; and it would keep it away from people that would not care at all +</I>><i> about the website global consistency (about information architecture, +</I>><i> design, navigation, localization, content strategy, etc.); that was +</I>><i> part of my job, actually; +</I>><i> - experience with Blogdrake translation team proved it more fluent +</I>><i> than a conventional CMS (or so I thought), although there were lots of +</I>><i> improvements to do (especially in direction and how we would have +</I>><i> proceeded); +</I>><i> - there were interesting improvements to find (because, well, it's +</I>><i> not an "ideal" solution), like, setting up a mixed templating system +</I>><i> to help formatting standard pages across all locales; +</I>><i> - and in the end, because I felt more confident with a minimalist +</I>><i> solution I could understand and manage with other translators than a +</I>><i> big thing I couldn't; +</I>><i> - and it wasn't as stupid as that as other big web projects seemed to +</I>><i> use a similar solution (which I learned through discussions that I +</I>><i> freely inspired from too) for parts of their website. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That was unpublished code, unfortunately (although it was in my +</I>><i> plans), so I can't publish it. But I can redraft it, as it's pretty an +</I>><i> easy architecture to reproduce and code is not that big. Most of the +</I>><i> work is still, well, in how you design and build your website. No tool +</I>><i> will write a good story for you. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now, things may be slightly different: +</I>><i> - I won't manage websites directly, but most likely coordinate and delegate; +</I>><i> - you certainly have better ideas. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Sorry to be so long (ah, don't start me with that topic! ;-) ), just +</I>><i> to state what I learned and think is important to take into account. +</I>><i> You may want to use something like that too (or not). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Cheers! +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Romain +</I> +Merci de ton explication Romain. Are you then going to be involved with +the web design of the site(s)? + +Marc + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000617.html">[Mageia-discuss] Website software +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000618.html">[Mageia-discuss] Joining +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#630">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#630">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#630">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#630">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |