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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bde0fbff3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,47 @@ +<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Στις 12 Απριλίου 2012 7:50 π.μ., ο χρήστης Wolfgang Bornath <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:molch.b@googlemail.com">molch.b@googlemail.com</a>></span> έγραψε:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> +<div class="im">2012/4/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis <<a href="mailto:dglent@gmail.com">dglent@gmail.com</a>>:<br> +> Στις 11/04/2012 19:11:55 Wolfgang Bornath γράψατε:<br> +>> 2012/4/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis <<a href="mailto:dglent@gmail.com">dglent@gmail.com</a>>:<br> +>> > Στις 11/04/2012 16:05:23 γράψατε:<br> +>> >> * I am not at home, actually how much space they take ? For what kind of<br> +>> >> size we are talking about ?<br> +>> ><br> +>> > The /usr/share/doc/HTML/en folder has a size of 43.5 MiB, which even now if it takes a lot of place anyone can delete this folder from his system.<br> +>><br> +>> We are not talking about deleting data from the harddisk. We are<br> +>> talking about installing and uninstalling, not just deleting. The<br> +>> issue is to avoid the installation (if not wanted) and consequently<br> +>> avoid updates.<br> +>><br> +>> I expected the discussion about the technical options to be quite long<br> +>> and not at all trivial, I did not expect such a discussion about the<br> +>> "why". There are valid use cases which answer the "why" quite clear<br> +>> and simple.<br> +>><br> +>><br> +><br> +> I dont understand very well.<br> +<br> +</div>Yes, I see.<br> +<div class="im"><br> +> - We dont have a lot of space so we want to be able to uninstall some software and it has to be the documentation as the most unwanted ?<br> +> - We want for a question of free choice to be able to choose if we want the documentation to be installed or not ? but this has to be the same for all kde software and dependencies, why is the documentation the problem.<br> + +<br> +</div>We have been talking about handbooks because they are single packages<br> +(not included in the software package) which are not needed/wanted by<br> +everybody and they are not necessary to run the software.<br> +<div class="im"><br> +> Dont forget that is a part of KDE and it has a global shortcut F1 to access it. If there is a case that it will be not available until the user install it in a additionally way, it breaks the upstream software.<br> +<br> +</div>The important word in your sentence is "if". This does not apply to<br> +simple applications like kcalc or some simple games or whatever you<br> +may regard as "simple apps". And as said before: it does not break the<br> +<div class="im">upstream software.<br></div></blockquote><div><br>I don't agree, i consider the handbook as a part of the application, and for me a KDE installation without the handbooks it is a broken installation.<br> +My opinion is that the person who does nt want it has to uninstall it and not that the person who want it has to install it<br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> +<div class="im"> +<br> +> It is truth that i spend a lot of time to translate documentation, and i do it with love, so it is normal that i have a preference in their existence in the system; certainly i cannot use this argument here.<br> +<br> +</div>Yes, you have to live with that like we all have to. I already said that.<br></blockquote><div><br>Yes i have to ...IF finally a such decision will be taken<br></div></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div>Dimitrios Glentadakis</div> +<br> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bde0fbff3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,47 @@ +<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Στις 12 Απριλίου 2012 7:50 π.μ., ο χρήστης Wolfgang Bornath <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:molch.b@googlemail.com">molch.b@googlemail.com</a>></span> έγραψε:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> +<div class="im">2012/4/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis <<a href="mailto:dglent@gmail.com">dglent@gmail.com</a>>:<br> +> Στις 11/04/2012 19:11:55 Wolfgang Bornath γράψατε:<br> +>> 2012/4/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis <<a href="mailto:dglent@gmail.com">dglent@gmail.com</a>>:<br> +>> > Στις 11/04/2012 16:05:23 γράψατε:<br> +>> >> * I am not at home, actually how much space they take ? For what kind of<br> +>> >> size we are talking about ?<br> +>> ><br> +>> > The /usr/share/doc/HTML/en folder has a size of 43.5 MiB, which even now if it takes a lot of place anyone can delete this folder from his system.<br> +>><br> +>> We are not talking about deleting data from the harddisk. We are<br> +>> talking about installing and uninstalling, not just deleting. The<br> +>> issue is to avoid the installation (if not wanted) and consequently<br> +>> avoid updates.<br> +>><br> +>> I expected the discussion about the technical options to be quite long<br> +>> and not at all trivial, I did not expect such a discussion about the<br> +>> "why". There are valid use cases which answer the "why" quite clear<br> +>> and simple.<br> +>><br> +>><br> +><br> +> I dont understand very well.<br> +<br> +</div>Yes, I see.<br> +<div class="im"><br> +> - We dont have a lot of space so we want to be able to uninstall some software and it has to be the documentation as the most unwanted ?<br> +> - We want for a question of free choice to be able to choose if we want the documentation to be installed or not ? but this has to be the same for all kde software and dependencies, why is the documentation the problem.<br> + +<br> +</div>We have been talking about handbooks because they are single packages<br> +(not included in the software package) which are not needed/wanted by<br> +everybody and they are not necessary to run the software.<br> +<div class="im"><br> +> Dont forget that is a part of KDE and it has a global shortcut F1 to access it. If there is a case that it will be not available until the user install it in a additionally way, it breaks the upstream software.<br> +<br> +</div>The important word in your sentence is "if". This does not apply to<br> +simple applications like kcalc or some simple games or whatever you<br> +may regard as "simple apps". And as said before: it does not break the<br> +<div class="im">upstream software.<br></div></blockquote><div><br>I don't agree, i consider the handbook as a part of the application, and for me a KDE installation without the handbooks it is a broken installation.<br> +My opinion is that the person who does nt want it has to uninstall it and not that the person who want it has to install it<br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> +<div class="im"> +<br> +> It is truth that i spend a lot of time to translate documentation, and i do it with love, so it is normal that i have a preference in their existence in the system; certainly i cannot use this argument here.<br> +<br> +</div>Yes, you have to live with that like we all have to. I already said that.<br></blockquote><div><br>Yes i have to ...IF finally a such decision will be taken<br></div></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div>Dimitrios Glentadakis</div> +<br> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..613df0672 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,16 @@ +<p></p> +<p>2012/4/12 Wolfgang Bornath <<a href="mailto:molch.b@googlemail.com">molch.b@googlemail.com</a>>:<br> +[...]<br> +> We have been talking about handbooks because they are single packages<br> +> (not included in the software package) which are not needed/wanted by<br> +> everybody and they are not necessary to run the software.<br> +Handbooks *are* part of the software and "artificially" generate as standalone package to fix a bug affecting live cd where this documentation was not available to ease *installation* of it instead of reinstall all of it.<br> + +If we're able in the future to get more space on our live-cd you can be sure that i'll (if I'm still in charge) revert this ugly hack.<br> +For the record luc also fix the installation of wrong handbooks on the DVD install ( only the suggests one should be installed with the correct app) & I'll try to fix the last remaining bug pointed by anssi where a handbook could stay available when the related app is removed.</p> + +<p>Regards,</p> +<p>-- <br> +Balcaen John<br> +Jabber-id: <a href="mailto:mikala@jabber.littleboboy.net">mikala@jabber.littleboboy.net</a><br> +</p> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..613df0672 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,16 @@ +<p></p> +<p>2012/4/12 Wolfgang Bornath <<a href="mailto:molch.b@googlemail.com">molch.b@googlemail.com</a>>:<br> +[...]<br> +> We have been talking about handbooks because they are single packages<br> +> (not included in the software package) which are not needed/wanted by<br> +> everybody and they are not necessary to run the software.<br> +Handbooks *are* part of the software and "artificially" generate as standalone package to fix a bug affecting live cd where this documentation was not available to ease *installation* of it instead of reinstall all of it.<br> + +If we're able in the future to get more space on our live-cd you can be sure that i'll (if I'm still in charge) revert this ugly hack.<br> +For the record luc also fix the installation of wrong handbooks on the DVD install ( only the suggests one should be installed with the correct app) & I'll try to fix the last remaining bug pointed by anssi where a handbook could stay available when the related app is removed.</p> + +<p>Regards,</p> +<p>-- <br> +Balcaen John<br> +Jabber-id: <a href="mailto:mikala@jabber.littleboboy.net">mikala@jabber.littleboboy.net</a><br> +</p> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..754f37931 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,24 @@ +<p>Le 12 avr. 2012 06:38, "Wolfgang Bornath" <<a href="mailto:molch.b@googlemail.com">molch.b@googlemail.com</a>> a écrit :<br> +><br> +[...]</p> +<p>> I am strictly opposed to include documentation in a software package,<br> +> in general, not only in the case at hand. Although I spent much time<br> +> for voluntary translation work, I still think it is up to the user if<br> +> he wants/needs the documentation. A prominent example which matches my<br> +> POV is The Gimp.<br> +><br> +> Reality is that in non-technical issues people in charge decide on the<br> +> basis of their opinion. That's the normal way and the rest has to live<br> +> with it. I have no problem with that.</p> +<p>You should here open a bug report on kde bugzilla then to get attention & remove documentation from every kde tarball/project (which also means to deal with the F1 shortcut & have a dynamic help menu)</p> +<p>><br> +> > For the record luc also fix the installation of wrong handbooks on the DVD<br> +> > install ( only the suggests one should be installed with the correct app) &<br> +> > I'll try to fix the last remaining bug pointed by anssi where a handbook<br> +> > could stay available when the related app is removed.<br> +><br> +> If non-installation of handbooks is not possible then at least make it<br> +> possible to *uninstall* handbooks without having to use 'rpm --nodeps'<br> +> on each and every one.<br> +I don't remember having a package requiring his handbook at all since I used suggests here especially to fix the live cd problem I pointed earlier.<br> +The idea is to ensure that you'll get kcal handbook removed when kcal package is removed.</p> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..754f37931 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,24 @@ +<p>Le 12 avr. 2012 06:38, "Wolfgang Bornath" <<a href="mailto:molch.b@googlemail.com">molch.b@googlemail.com</a>> a écrit :<br> +><br> +[...]</p> +<p>> I am strictly opposed to include documentation in a software package,<br> +> in general, not only in the case at hand. Although I spent much time<br> +> for voluntary translation work, I still think it is up to the user if<br> +> he wants/needs the documentation. A prominent example which matches my<br> +> POV is The Gimp.<br> +><br> +> Reality is that in non-technical issues people in charge decide on the<br> +> basis of their opinion. That's the normal way and the rest has to live<br> +> with it. I have no problem with that.</p> +<p>You should here open a bug report on kde bugzilla then to get attention & remove documentation from every kde tarball/project (which also means to deal with the F1 shortcut & have a dynamic help menu)</p> +<p>><br> +> > For the record luc also fix the installation of wrong handbooks on the DVD<br> +> > install ( only the suggests one should be installed with the correct app) &<br> +> > I'll try to fix the last remaining bug pointed by anssi where a handbook<br> +> > could stay available when the related app is removed.<br> +><br> +> If non-installation of handbooks is not possible then at least make it<br> +> possible to *uninstall* handbooks without having to use 'rpm --nodeps'<br> +> on each and every one.<br> +I don't remember having a package requiring his handbook at all since I used suggests here especially to fix the live cd problem I pointed earlier.<br> +The idea is to ensure that you'll get kcal handbook removed when kcal package is removed.</p> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/ff50dd5d/attachment-0001.asc b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/ff50dd5d/attachment-0001.asc new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ebb58f7c6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/ff50dd5d/attachment-0001.asc @@ -0,0 +1,7 @@ +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) + +iEYEABECAAYFAk+GwzMACgkQqEs9DA4DquAZlACgnuWbAa5usyvPCFHzx83yTlTH +IdAAoI7VRNfOx+da17sKvlfCA/2JhzBp +=QKMF +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/ff50dd5d/attachment.asc b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/ff50dd5d/attachment.asc new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ebb58f7c6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/ff50dd5d/attachment.asc @@ -0,0 +1,7 @@ +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) + +iEYEABECAAYFAk+GwzMACgkQqEs9DA4DquAZlACgnuWbAa5usyvPCFHzx83yTlTH +IdAAoI7VRNfOx+da17sKvlfCA/2JhzBp +=QKMF +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |