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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/47ebffc2/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/47ebffc2/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..89277f0c0 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/47ebffc2/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ +2010/9/26 Tux99 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tux99-mga@uridium.org">tux99-mga@uridium.org</a>></span><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<div class="im">On Sun, 26 Sep 2010, Giuseppe Ghibò wrote:<br> +<br> +> Centos4 IS NOT a modern distro. It is a LTS started in 2005 and so it<br> +> maintains 2005's original skeleton of kernel, gcc, glibc and X. That's FIVE<br> +> years old.<br> +<br> +</div>I'm quite sure Centos5/RHEL5 would install and run fine on it too,<br> +Debian would almost certainly too, the point is when you don't<br> +install/use a GUI, Linux still can run fine on very old low end<br> +hardware.<br></blockquote><div><br>kernel 2.6.18 is a lot different than 2.6.31/33. As I said I invite to RUN the installation/installer from scratch (there is the dual-arch installer on a CD) of 2010.1 or cooker in such hardware. And if successful, report the memory usage without any service started apart the login ttys. We are not using the installation tools of CentOS or Debian. NetBSD would have probably even the tiny one since AIM of being still compatible to m68k hardware.<br> + <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<div class="im"><br> +<br> +> As example MDV 2007.1, which is 3 years old, was still very<br> +> usable and responsive on my P4/ATI (maybe not as much as stable with 3D<br> +> acceleration), but 2010.0 ISN'T.<br> +<br> +</div>Again, you are missing the point, you are talking about desktop/GUI use!<br> +Computers get used for a lot of other purposes, not just desktop/GUI use!<br> +<div class="im"><br></div></blockquote><div><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im"> +<br> +> That's why I in some way asked a survey of oldest hardware based<br> +> on own experiences.<br> +<br> +</div>Well, my oldest hardware that I still have working is a dual cpu<br> +Pentium 233MMX (the original i586) with 384MB RAM (currently has 2008.1<br></blockquote><div><br>in i586 we are not even using MMX. As I said 2008.1 is not 2010.1 but 4 generation distro behind. Since it's not LTS, you might try to upgrade to 2010.1.<br> + <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +on it) and a VIA C3 (samuel2 core, i586 since it lacks CMOV) box with<br> +512MB RAM which has mdv 2010.1 installed on it and works fine for it's<br> +purpose too (headless home server running 24/7 and only uses 10Watts).<br></blockquote><div><br>what is the output of "cpuinfo" there?<br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> + +<div class="im"><br> +<br> +> Very interesting, but will such "industrial use" will be target for Mageia<br> +> (BTW, certainly socket 775 CPU will support SSE and SSE2...)? If they have<br> +> an ISA slot, I guess is for maintaning the compatibility with some old fancy<br> +> (and maybe custom) card, certainly not for an ISA ethernet card that can be<br> +> easily replaced with a cheap PCI one or the one on board.<br> +<br> +</div>That was just one example, there are many other situations were you<br> +still find ISA hardware, especially in developing countries.<br> +<div class="im"><br> +<br> +> Not exactly. I'm not talking in just using -march=<something> but in also<br> +> pushing -mfpmath=sse -msse (and maybe -msse2) , which should be much more<br> +> than JUST 1-2% (1-2% is usually the benchmark tolerance)...<br> +<br> +</div>AFAIK SSE will only help with media apps (mplayer, etc) and they do<br> +autodedect already anyway so in practice nothing is gained.<br></blockquote><div><br>-mfpmath=sse would replace the x87 with sse. Of course for any CPU not having the SSE would result in a segfault or illegal instruction report rather than a drop of performance as in case of changing the optimization but maintaining the backward compatibility.<br> + <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<div class="im"><br> +<br> +> being realistic I think it's a lot of work and there aren't the resources,<br> +> so a choice of the default flags should be done.<br> +<br> +</div>Agreed that would be too much work for very little benefit, the default<br> +flags of Mandriva are just fine since they still work on i586.<br></blockquote><div><br>If you are able to break the Page's law you are welcome. :-)<br>[<a href="http://www.appscout.com/2009/05/moores_law_meet_larry_pages_la.php">http://www.appscout.com/2009/05/moores_law_meet_larry_pages_la.php</a>]<br> + <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +We could have some selected packages also as i686 (like MIB does and<br> +like the kernel already is), like for example all the media players, but<br> +making the whole distro i686 would break too many uses of it.<br></blockquote><div><br>as I said you are forgetting two of the most important like glibc and kernel. As I said it's not that difficult to provide such packages (even optimized for VIA C3 and C7) but require a little bit more than rebuilding with specifying --target=c3,c7,xxx in rpm building.<br> +<br>I also think that sometimes application due to poor cache (including ATOM) would run faster when compiled with -Os instead of -O2...; we could introduce it for a common .i386.rpm package.<br><br>Bye<br>Giuseppe.<br><br> +In a challenge of better supporting legacy hardware, why not adding Mageia super-Legacy no-desktop section? where we are doing exactly the opposite of supporting newer hardware. E.g.:<br><br>- remove i18n support, only LANG=C<br> +- optimize for tiny cache<br>- reduce the # of fonts installed<br>- no themes<br>- reduce # of things in /etc/profile.d<br>- no extra audio daemon support (pulse, etc) or even no audio support<br><br></div></div> |