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We had several (many!) proposals on that topics and we +</I>><i> >>> need to take some decisions. +</I>><i> >>> +</I>><i> >>> Here are some prerequisites I can see for what I can read in comments +</I>><i> >>> and review about Mageia on the web. +</I>><i> >>> +</I>><i> >>> - provide a full open source software version +</I>><i> >>> - provide CD iso(s) so that it can be quick to download (people having +</I>><i> >>> low band-width or paying depending how much they use it) +</I>><i> >>> - provide live version(s) +</I>><i> >>> - decrease isos number. QA is just a hell on the set we had for Mageia 2 +</I>><i> >>> - provide localization as large as possible +</I>><i> >>> - provide isos including major drivers including proprietary one to make +</I>><i> >>> it easier to install and configure +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> ... +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >>> Please add all explanations to your proposal. +</I>><i> >>> +</I>><i> >>> Let say we take one week on this so until 26/09 then we will make a +</I>><i> >>> final proposal +</I>><i> >>> +</I>><i> >>> Cheers +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> My suggestions : +</I>><i> >> *Non-live isos* +</I>><i> >> 1 dual cd with proprietory firmware/drivers +</I>><i> >> -- based on comments by Alien and others +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> 1 dvd 32-bit with proprietory firmware/drivers +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > you do realize that this is a no-go as we already have problem fitting +</I>><i> > even LXDE on dual isos (as you only have ~350M / arch for rpms and +</I>><i> > installer, so trying to load a lot of extra fw and drivers on wont work. +</I> +iinm the dual-arch CD just needs a small few nonfree things, like hardware +raid cards and a few network firmwares. but then the rescue also needs ip (for +vlan) and brctl (for bridging)... (in all actuallity, i'm prepared here to +drop all of small parts of LXDE and/or other graphic stuff). + +perhaps if we can unlink a few more cycles, we get enough free space... + + +><i> > And yes, we already hardlink noarch packages +</I>><i> +</I>><i> For the dual cd I was just going on comments by others, but I can +</I>><i> understand the space problem. I wasn't anticipating multiple desktops +</I>><i> for that iso. Whatever works for those who use it, and those who create +</I>><i> it, is fine by me. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It has occured to me that maybe it would be better to have 2 cds, one +</I>><i> each for 32-bit and 64-bit. That would make it a lot easier to find +</I>><i> enough space, and maybe even make it simpler to create ? It would add +</I>><i> another cd, but maybe not increase the workload. +</I>><i> Testing should be about the same. +</I>><i> (And carrying 2 cds in a pocket instead of one shouldn't be a problem.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As for the 32-bit dvd with proprietory firmware and drivers where +</I>><i> reliable free aren't available, I think that that is important. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >> -- we could ask at the beginning something like +</I>><i> >> "This disc can install proprietory firmware or drivers needed by your +</I>><i> >> hardware. Do you want to : +</I>><i> >> 1) Install such software automatically, +</I>><i> >> 2) Ask for each such software, or +</I>><i> >> 3) Never install such software." +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> That way users can accept or avoid such software as they wish. +</I>><i> >> At the same time, users will never be stuck. This will be particularly +</I>><i> >> useful for new users, especially those who found the dvd in a magazine. +</I>><i> >> Also users preferring no non-free, including firmware or drivers, could +</I>><i> >> simply resinstall accepting certain firmware/drivers after finding that +</I>><i> >> their hardware doesn't work properly. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > As with all suggestions to mod the installer, we still need someone to +</I>><i> > do the work, not just expect that "someone" will do it... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> True. +</I>><i> If all installers, and not just the live installers, carry the +</I>><i> proprietory firmware/drivers, maybe that will alleviate some of the +</I>><i> workload ? +</I>><i> BTW, I'm sure that we all appreciate your important contributions on this. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> [...] +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >> *Live isos* +</I>><i> >> 1 live (installable like current dvds) dvd 64-bit with +</I>><i> >> kde/gnome/lxde/xfce and all localizations, and the proprietory +</I>><i> >> firmware/drivers now found on live cds. +</I>><i> >> -- variation of suggestion by Sander +</I>><i> >> -- this replaces both the current 64-bit dvd + 8 live cds +</I>><i> >> -- it seems much less likely that 64-bit users will have the download +</I>><i> >> bandwidth problems of many 32-bit users. (If I'm not mistaken.) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > You are kidding, right ? +</I>><i> > Just because they have a 64bit hw, it does not mean they have accees +</I>><i> > to cheap bw since that depends on where they live, what isp they have, +</I>><i> > and so on... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I agree that having 64-bit hw doesn't necessarily mean one has cheap bw. +</I>><i> Just thought that it was more likely than many with 32-bit hw. +</I>><i> In any case, if they do have a problem, they could always use the 32-bit +</I>><i> version. But the converse is not true. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >> -- users with 64-bit machines could still use a 32-bit live cd if they +</I>><i> >> wish. +</I>><i> >> -- This should save a lot of problems testing, as many potential testers +</I>><i> >> don't have 64-bit machines available. +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> 8 live cds 32-bit; kde or gnome; 4 localisation groups +</I>><i> >> -- users with 32-bit machines are more likely to have bandwidth +</I>><i> >> problems, or to not have dvd writers. +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> This totals 11 isos, down from 19. (reduced by 8 live cds.) +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> Note that I didn't include an iso without proprietory firmware/drivers, +</I>><i> >> as with appropriate warnings on those with, an iso without would be +</I>><i> >> redundant. Just unnecessarily increasing the testing workload. +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> Note also that it would be useful to have a file in the iso directory +</I>><i> >> listing the languages available on the various live cds. (Lacking for +</I>><i> >> mga2, but did exist for mandriva.) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Not so... every livecd is has a matching *.lang: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > <A HREF="http://mirrors.kernel.org/mageia/iso/2/Mageia-2-LiveCD-GNOME-Europe1-Ameri">http://mirrors.kernel.org/mageia/iso/2/Mageia-2-LiveCD-GNOME-Europe1-Ameri</A> +</I>><i> > cas-i586-CD/Mageia-2-LiveCD-GNOME-Europe1-Americas-i586-CD.langs +</I>><i> My mirror doesn't carry the *.lang files (mageia.webconquest.com in Canada) +</I>><i> Aren't they supposed to carry all the iso-related files, if they carry +</I>><i> isos ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > And this page lists the langs on the isos too: +</I>><i> > <A HREF="http://www.mageia.org/en/downloads/">http://www.mageia.org/en/downloads/</A> +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >> A final point - to me it is really important to be able to upgrade an +</I>><i> >> existing installation, instead of forcing a clean install. This allows +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > DVDs and netinstalls already support upgrades... +</I>><i> > (DVDs will still always have some problem unless you add online medias, +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > as we cant fit all of the online repos on the DVDs) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Just made the point since there has been some discussion which seemed to +</I>><i> suggest changing that. +</I>><i> As long as one can do a release upgrade install without internet access, +</I>><i> redoing an update on line afterwards is not problematic. It works quite +</I>><i> well. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > The mga3 upgrade path will need more work due to UsrMove, but it +</I>><i> > should still be possible... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Hopefully. UsrMove was a good idea. +</I>><i> Maybe users with /usr on / could do UsrMove before upgrade to mga3 ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >> the user to more easily keep their current configuration, and in some +</I>><i> >> cases essential drivers/firmware not on the iso. Referring to the dvds +</I>><i> >> and the dual cd, and not the live cds, which are not primarily for +</I>><i> >> installation. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I guess you mean livecds _are_ meant for installation, not upgrades +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Right :) +</I>><i> But I was also thinking that there will be users that just boot a live +</I>><i> cd to see what it looks like, then actually install using a dvd, or +</I>><i> maybe use the live cd just for a review (without installing). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > -- +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Thomas +</I></PRE> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="018898.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia 3 final set of isos +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="018757.html">[Mageia-dev] autogen.sh +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#18899">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#18899">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#18899">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#18899">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |