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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-November/020323.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-November/020323.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e2e0f9c1b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-November/020323.html @@ -0,0 +1,213 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Bye%20Bye%20Mageia&In-Reply-To=%3CCAPn0va45pQv%2BnfzW0S3BFtDzdNS31kHevY-XJ4QPkfYXYmCJFA%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="020321.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="020328.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia</H1> + <B>Donald Stewart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Bye%20Bye%20Mageia&In-Reply-To=%3CCAPn0va45pQv%2BnfzW0S3BFtDzdNS31kHevY-XJ4QPkfYXYmCJFA%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia">watersnowrock at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Nov 26 19:48:03 CET 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="020321.html">[Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="020328.html">[Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#20323">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#20323">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#20323">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#20323">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 26 November 2012 18:25, Joseph Wang <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">joequant at gmail.com</A>> wrote: +><i> One reason that I kept rather quiet is that e-mail conversations on +</I>><i> mailing lists +</I>><i> have a tendency to become flame wars, and I really want to avoid that. It's +</I>><i> very easy in public conversations to come across as a jerk, and as a newbie +</I>><i> I really wanted to avoid that. I've tried whenever finding myself in unfamiliar +</I>><i> social situations to just keep my mouth shut, and listen to what's going on +</I>><i> for a while before saying anything. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The thing about communications is that it really doesn't scale. One +</I>><i> thing that's +</I>><i> nice about the open source model is that you can go into your garage, work on +</I>><i> something, and you don't need anyone's permission or to communicate or +</I>><i> coordinate +</I>><i> with anyone. Coordination is a real pain, and you really want to +</I>><i> structure things so +</I>><i> that you can minimize coordination. Communication is also a problem. You say +</I>><i> one thing, someone replies, pretty soon you have a flame war, and you +</I>><i> aren't doing +</I>><i> and "real work." +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The thing that I'm working on in my garage is a linux workstation that +</I>><i> is set up for +</I>><i> hard-core astrophysics theory. Packaging is a missing piece of +</I>><i> scientific software +</I>><i> since there are hundreds of scientific software packages that are not packaged. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Rather than engage in vaporware, I just need some stable distribution +</I>><i> that is very +</I>><i> open to adding new items into some "bleeding edge" repository. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I ended up with Mageia partly for historical reasons, but partly out +</I>><i> of a sense that +</I>><i> because it was a community distribution, it would have some easy mechanism +</I>><i> for accepting "bleeding edge" packages. Once I got through initial +</I>><i> packaging learning, +</I>><i> I was planning to add things like a stellar evolution code and hard +</I>><i> core CFD code. I'd +</I>><i> like to add some professional astronomical telescope tracking software +</I>><i> (like IRAF or +</I>><i> DS9), and to hard core astrophysics research. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> My assumption was that as a community driven project, there would be +</I>><i> some mechanism +</I>><i> for adding new packages to the system, and that I wouldn't have to +</I>><i> worry about getting +</I>><i> permission, I would just do it. Fedora already has a mechanism for +</I>><i> doing that, but sense +</I>><i> I was already using Mageia, I had thought that Mageia would be at +</I>><i> least as open as +</I>><i> Fedora, and that it would be easy to add large numbers of new packages. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now if I'm mistaken about this, and this is not the goal of the Mageia +</I>><i> maintainers, then +</I>><i> I just need to find some other platform to work on. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Again, it makes perfect sense to me not to put cinnamon into Mageia 3 +</I>><i> core. It's +</I>><i> unstable and buggy and it's going to be a pain in the rear end to get +</I>><i> it to work smoothly. The +</I>><i> problem is that if it's not possible to put Cinnamon *somewhere* in +</I>><i> the Mageia tree +</I>><i> so that "bleeding edgers" can work on it, then it's going to be +</I>><i> impossible to use Mageia +</I>><i> as a distribution mechanism for even more bleeding edge experimental +</I>><i> software, and if +</I>><i> that's the intent, then I've just got to find another distribution to work on. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm not trying to be a jerk or to blackmail anyone. It's just that if +</I>><i> there is no mechanism +</I>><i> for Mageia users to share bleeding edge software with each other, then +</I>><i> it's not going to +</I>><i> work for what I want to do with it. urpmi and cauldron is a great +</I>><i> mechanism for two nuclear +</I>><i> physicists to share say the latest nuclear equation of states +</I>><i> libraries, and as something +</I>><i> that advertises itself as a community distribution, I was hoping that +</I>><i> Mageia could be the +</I>><i> center of that. One problem that we have here is that everyone wants +</I>><i> to copy Apple OSX +</I>><i> and Android. The Ipad and MacOS is a slick piece of software. The +</I>><i> trouble is that it +</I>><i> only lets you do what Apple wants you to do, because if you do +</I>><i> something really different +</I>><i> you might break the box. This is really, really bad for real hard +</I>><i> core, scientific research +</I>><i> since what you are trying to do is to push the machine to the point +</I>><i> where you are breaking +</I>><i> the box, and it's hard to communicate in advance what you are trying +</I>><i> to do, since you don't +</I>><i> know. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If that's not what people want to do with Mageia, then I just have to +</I>><i> accept that and move +</I>><i> elsewhere....... +</I> +The thing about communication and coordination is that unless it is +there, and people are aware of what others are doing, then huge +amounts of work will get repeated. Now I am not saying that you need +to keep in communication over every single thing that is going on, but +it is good to have a background knowledge and just to check in. The +better informed we are about what you are doing, then the more that +others can help you. +As you say, sometimes it is hard to know what you are going to do, but +it is still important to be aware of the projects goals, now it is +unfortunate that you have done work on cinnamon, however, as in the +other thread, it seems that there is a possibility that it can be put +into updates/testing. And as you said, it is not ready from the prime +time, so that offers a very good solution. +Now I feel that there would be a far greater reward to start on the +other packages, as there is far less in there way, and infact we +welcome scientific packages, there was a drive a few months back to +get as many included in the distro as possible, there is a lot of GIS +stuff, and I am sure that the astrophysics software you have in mind +will have a place. +Bear in mind that we have switched to a new rpm group policy, so +please make sure that the groups that you put the software in fall +into them, similarly for the libs policy. This is not trying to +conform or limit your work, but trying to guide things so that they +fit in with the rest of the distribution, it is really important that +we offer as uniform method on these things to aid the user in +installing the software. + +Schultz +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="020321.html">[Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="020328.html">[Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#20323">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#20323">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#20323">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#20323">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |